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Troy Archie
05-15-2007, 10:51 AM
I'm starting up taking fish oil but I'm curious as to what to look for change/health benefit wise.

Mike ODonnell
05-15-2007, 11:28 AM
* Less inflammation (pain)
* Increases cardiovascular health (decreased risk of heart diseases)
* Improves mental/brain function
* Improves depression, ADD, ADHD, and fatigue
* Increases fat loss
* Suppresses cortisol and muscle breakdown
* Reduces risk of cancers
* Improves asthma related symptoms
* Improves blood pressure
* Improves cholesterol
* Increases recovery and muscle growth

Garrett Smith
05-15-2007, 06:11 PM
Make sure you get enough, go by the total daily EPA + DHA total...I take 2400mg total EPA+DHA a day, on top of my grassfed beef, wild fish, pastured eggs, and grassfed glandular powders...don't go by "grams of fish oil".

For example:
Kirkland fish oil caps = 300mg EPA+DHA per 1000mg fish oil capsule
Nordic Naturals Super EPAxtra = 600mg EPA+DHA per 1000mg fish oil capsule

Not equivalent in any way, if you went by the grams of fish oil!!!

Nikki Young
05-17-2007, 12:36 AM
I was about to start a thread but saw this one and thought i could put it under here as it's in regards to fish oil.

I recently bought a couple bottles of liquid fish oil, because it saved me going to the mall all the time to top up. So i put the extra bottle in the freezer cause thats what i do with my caps, better keeping right? On the bottle it says 'freeze with confidence', whatever thats meant to imply. lol. Anyway, it's been in the fridge now for about 5days, and it's still like jelly(or jello as you call it), is this normal??

Chris Forbis
05-17-2007, 02:37 AM
My last bottle of CLO that came from the freezer to the fridge has a rather viscous consistency as well.

Jordan Glasser
05-17-2007, 09:21 AM
I've had issues with my fridge being too cold. This happens to me all the time. I leave my fish oil on the counter while I eat a meal to let it thaw. I put it away when I am cleaning up. That's usually enough time for thawing, without too much exposure to room temp.

Nikki Young
05-20-2007, 01:39 AM
Thanks Jordon! That did the trick!

Mike ODonnell
05-20-2007, 06:43 AM
Nikki what brand? Never had an issue with Carlsons.

Nikki Young
05-20-2007, 03:32 PM
Mike, i use Melrose fish oil http://www.melrosehealth.com.au/products/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=24
Pretty much because it's the only liquid fish oil i've been able to find!

Mike ODonnell
05-20-2007, 03:42 PM
Hmmm...I like Carlsons and Nordic Naturals...they have them in local health food shops here. I would be curious if you tried another brand in the same fridge whether or not you have the same issues. I once read somewhere that the more impurities it may have, the more likely it will freeze.....and that pure fish oil shouldnt freeze....although at some temp it might...never tested the theory....will have to throw the Carlsons in the freezer to see what happens.

Tony Ferous
05-20-2007, 04:34 PM
Nikki,
I live in Oz too. I've never found a fish oil liquid i really like or trust the quality of here, so i buy the carlsons stuff from iherb.com and get it shipped over. Its usually very quick to arrive.

Nikki Young
05-20-2007, 07:07 PM
I'm not sure that's why i asked, to see if it was a natural thing to happen or not. Let me know how you go with yours. I would get another fish oil if i could, the Melrose has synthetic vitmain E in it, which is something i try and avoid. But even on the net i can't get any (here in Australia that is), my only real option is to get some from overseas, but then it starts to get very pricey. Tony, how much does Calrsons work out to be including shipping?

Tony Ferous
05-20-2007, 08:21 PM
Well i ordered $334US worth of stuff, shipping was $70.88, quite a large % in shipping guess, but the choice is great and prices cheap. I think it will let you estimate the shipping cost before commiting too.
For example, 90 twinlab ZMA caps costs $12.50, its criminally expensive here in Sydney at GNC.
200ml of carlsons fish oil is $13.14.

Nikki Young
05-21-2007, 12:25 AM
Hmm.. actually it didn't work.. it went liquid last night when i left it out of the fridge, but then this afternoon when i went to have some it was all jelly again. Have i got dodgy fish oil, or should i just not have frozen it?

Thanks for the info Tony! I might consider getting some Carlsons in the future :)

Garrett Smith
05-21-2007, 06:45 AM
I simply keep mine in the fridge with one of those "wine preserver" (rubber tops with a little hand pump to create a vacuum) things put in it.

If you use a solid dose on a consistent basis, I don't think there should be that much of a rancidity issue.

The consistency change is curious, and I'd tend to think it wasn't a positive change.

Troy Archie
05-21-2007, 08:45 PM
What's the difference between Salmon/Fish oil blend and Cod Liver Oil? I got confused at Costco so I picked up a bottle of both. The CLO is way cheaper but I see now that the Salmon/Fish-oil has the EPA & DHA goodness that's recommended, while the Cod Liver Oil is Vitamin A&D.

Garrett Smith
05-21-2007, 09:21 PM
Troy,
Depending on the brand, you can get all the good stuff (A/D/EPA/DHA) in cod liver oil by itself.

I believe that people benefit from all of those nutrients, especially those who don't get enough sun exposure on bare skin.

I've found it most efficient to get a super concentrated fish oil AND a super concentrated CLO...that way I can get all four nutrients in the least amount of oil (basically about 1.25 teaspoons).

Elliot Royce
08-27-2007, 11:08 AM
I'll piggyback on this thread since Garrett touched on my question early in the thread. I want to up my fish oil to try to deal with inflammation. I've got NatureMade capsules where each 2 capsules contain 432mg of EPA and 288mg of DHA. Reading into Garrett's thread, it would seem like I should be taking at least 8 capsules per day if not more (Garrett is eating a lot of omega friendly stuff). Does that make sense?

Does one need to space them out during the day or just gobble em all at night?

Allen Yeh
08-27-2007, 12:00 PM
I'll piggyback on this thread since Garrett touched on my question early in the thread. I want to up my fish oil to try to deal with inflammation. I've got NatureMade capsules where each 2 capsules contain 432mg of EPA and 288mg of DHA. Reading into Garrett's thread, it would seem like I should be taking at least 8 capsules per day if not more (Garrett is eating a lot of omega friendly stuff). Does that make sense?

Does one need to space them out during the day or just gobble em all at night?

From your pills each dose is ~700mg epa/dha so 4 servings would place you at 2800mg's I think that might be a little low for someone of your bodyweight? Right now I'm taking Flameout but when I do switch to Carlsons I usually take 4-6 teaspoons which is 1300mg epa/dha per tsp.

I prefer breaking it up as long as it's convenient to do so. When doing flameout I'll take all 4 with lunch then with dinner I might have a Coromega packet. If doing Carlson's I just split it up, 1/2 now 1/2 later.

Frank Needham
10-12-2007, 01:05 PM
nice synopsis of fish oil here with all the research citations:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fish-oil/NS_patient-fishoil

Mike ODonnell
10-12-2007, 02:01 PM
In no particular order.....

Caps usually need 8-12 to get the equivalent of 1 tablespoon of oil. Only the grams of EPA+DHA count on the label...for example a pill could say 1000mg but really only has 350mg of EPA/DHA.

Cod Liver has more Vit A&D, which can be toxic if you take too much. They always say Cod Liver Oil in the winter, Fish Oil in the summer...unless you never get any sun in the summer. Or if you are taking like 6-10grams, might want to either get only fish oil or mix CLO/FO like Dr G said above.

Spreading out vs one dose really doesnt matter...fish oil stays in your system (like a fat soluble vitamin) unlike a watersoluble vitamin like Vit C or B that gets excreted in like 4 hours and needs the divided doses.

Frozen fish oil could be some impurities or maybe fridge is too cold. It can happen. Carlsons and Nordic Naturals I find to be high quality.

Frank Needham
10-25-2007, 05:58 AM
We buy bottles of 1000 caps at Sam's for $9.29, taking 10-15 /day they last a good while. No smell, aftertaste, burps, etc.

An article on fish oil at t-nation: http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do;jsessionid=B9EBE58487E4671C4957E415 5B1A70B2.hydra?id=1651364&cr=supplements

John Alston
10-29-2007, 11:14 AM
http://www.fortified-iron.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42061
A whole big thread on people having excellent training boosts from large fish oil consumption with links to cheap liquid to purchase.
Vitacost got me some decent stuff. I'm on this bandwagon of 30+g a day. We'll see what happens.

Mike ODonnell
10-29-2007, 12:18 PM
Fish Oil in my mind is the #1 performance and fat loss supplement out there....no idea on the whole 30grams a day thing....that gets costly.

Garrett Smith
10-29-2007, 12:39 PM
As has (maybe) been said before, it's not just how much fish oil one takes in a day, but how much of the "active" EPA & DHA.

For example, I had a buddy in ND school who took 15g of EPA (!) a day and developed an issue with his ability to clot/coagulate. Made a really messy sink after a tiny little cut.

The fish oil I carry has twice the EPA + DHA as the Cosco brand (600mg versus 300mg, both come in a 1000mg capsule).

So, take note of what "potency" of fish oil you're buying. There's an even bigger discrepancy in liquid fish oils.

John Alston
10-29-2007, 12:49 PM
Fish Oil in my mind is the #1 performance and fat loss supplement out there....no idea on the whole 30grams a day thing....that gets costly.

Going liquid makes it relatively cheap.

Mike ODonnell
10-29-2007, 01:02 PM
Going liquid makes it relatively cheap.

The math on the other thread is off.....they say 1 tablespoon is 15 grams? From my math and knowledge....each 200ml bottle of fish oil has 40 servings of 1.3grams (1300mg) of EPA/DHA...so to get 30 grams a day is NOT 2 tablespoons...but rather around 7 per day....which makes the bottle empty every 2 days....at $19 a bottle....that is an expensive month.

John Alston
10-29-2007, 01:27 PM
the 30 - 40 a day isn't trying to get 30-40 a day of EPA/DHA, rather just the oil.

Mike ODonnell
10-29-2007, 01:44 PM
the 30 - 40 a day isn't trying to get 30-40 a day of EPA/DHA, rather just the oil.

Still not much a difference from what I see on the Carlsons fish oil label....1600mg vs 1300mg (EPA/DHA combination). Not trying to be right....just trying to figure out why someone would care about anything other than total EPA/DHA when it comes to fish oil. That and not sure how 15grams is in a tablespoon by looking at that label. Or are we converting 200ml (the size of the bottle) into 200 grams somehow...

http://site.vitamaker.com/productImages/fishoil-liquid-200ml-3-large.jpg

John Alston
10-29-2007, 03:56 PM
http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Liquid-Purified-Fish-Oil-Omega-3-EPA-DHA

2 tsp = 9g of fish oil.
If 1 tbsp = 3 tsp, then 1 tbsp = 9*1.5 =13.5g of fishoil. I think this is the tsp to tbsp conversion, right?
So then a couple tbsp = close to 30g of fish oil.

People prob don't talk about getting the X amount of EPA-DHA because that's not where it all started; it started with some people getting results from 30-40 pills at 1g each, the standard.

Ones that have higher concentrations of EPA-DHA tend to advertise themselves as "double strength."

Frank Needham
10-29-2007, 05:03 PM
The fish oil I carry has twice the EPA + DHA as the Cosco brand (600mg versus 300mg, both come in a 1000mg capsule).

So, take note of what "potency" of fish oil you're buying. There's an even bigger discrepancy in liquid fish oils.

G, is that what is referred to as "pharmeceutical grade" fish oil? Can you give some more info on it? Thanks....

Garrett Smith
10-29-2007, 05:29 PM
MOD, John's calculations are pretty much on.

That being said, I have a liquid fish oil that gives 2900mg EPA+DHA per teaspoon--that would give a boatload of EPA+DHA in two Tbsp, and also cost a pretty penny per day.

Frank, "pharmaceutical grade" refers to the purity and "assured" potency of the product in question. Is there a strict definition of what "pharmaceutical grade" entails? A quick Google search would lead me to believe that there is NOT.

ProThera (www.protherainc.com), the company that I get my fish oil from, states this on their website regarding the purity of their supplement constituents:

Manufacturing Overview
ProThera nutraceuticals are produced in licensed manufacturing facilities that strictly adhere to current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMP's). Products provided in tablet, capsule, and powder form are made in a manufacturing facility licensed by the State of California as a drug manufacturer and food processor and registered with the Food and Drug Administration as a drug manufacturing establishment. The facility is also approved by governmental agencies in the United Kingdom, the European Community (EC) and Australia to manufacture a drug product. Current GMP's and written standard operating procedures (SOP's) are strictly followed through all stages of production to produce products that meet or exceed United States Pharmacopeia (USP) standards.

Raw Material Specifications
Active ingredients used in ProThera products are selected based on their purity, bioavailability, documented actions, and safety characteristics. USP materials, i.e., those meeting USP standards, are used for those nutrients where this standard exists. Raw materials are purchased exclusively from reputable vendors who provide detailed Certificates of Analysis for every lot of material. These certificates certify that active components, toxic elements, and microbial content are within specified acceptable parameters. Purity and potency of selected raw materials are verified through independent testing laboratories by raw material vendors and ProThera, Inc. All incoming raw materials undergo quarantine, inspection, and evaluation.

Quality Control Laboratory
On-site laboratory personnel evaluate physical characteristics of each finished product including hardness, disintegration, moisture balance, friability, and pH. Purity and potency of finished product is independently verified through outside commercial laboratories using a randomized ingredient and batch testing program.

Excipients
ProThera products are free of artificial flavors, preservatives, and colorings. Naturally-derived, inert excipient materials, including cellulose-based excipients, vegetable-derived magnesium stearate, L-leucine, and silicon dioxide are used in very small amounts as tableting and encapsulation aids. Tableted products are protected with an inert, water-soluble cellulose coating that dissolves readily upon ingestion, thus facilitating tablet disintegration time. Vegetarian Vcaps™ capsules made of plant cellulose are used exclusively for ProThera's two-piece encapsulated products. Common allergens such as wheat, corn, soy, yeast, and dairy are avoided.

The bolded parts may be the most important ones to a company in order to state that it is "pharmaceutical grade". Do I think that some companies are likely lying? Sure. If there is no regulation on the term, then it is up for grabs.

Mike ODonnell
10-29-2007, 08:46 PM
2 tsp = 9g of fish oil.
If 1 tbsp = 3 tsp, then 1 tbsp = 9*1.5 =13.5g of fishoil. I think this is the tsp to tbsp conversion, right?
So then a couple tbsp = close to 30g of fish oil.

I got it now...going by total grams of fat not the individual EPA/DHA. Check. I always went EPA/DHA as I believe that is how Dr Sears was qualifying how many grams a day to take. I usually take 1-2 tablespoons anyways so looks like I am on track. (I just swig the bottle...no measurements really).

I believe it all started from the original interview with Poliquin
Anyone who wants to put on muscle and lose fat should be on 30-45 grams of fish oil per day. That's just three tablespoons of fish oil. It would be a pain in the ass with capsules though because that's around 45 capsules per day, but it's easy with a straight oil.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1371812

Although in todays world with so many different versions of fish oil, super strength EPA, DHA doubled, etc....would make sense to talk more in terms of EPA/DHA totals to know how to convert with whatever you are taking. Just thinking out loud....

As for the pharma grade I have no idea if that is really something true or just fancy marketing terms to make something more pricey.

Allen Yeh
10-30-2007, 04:08 AM
I believe it all started from the original interview with Poliquin

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1371812

Although in todays world with so many different versions of fish oil, super strength EPA, DHA doubled, etc....would make sense to talk more in terms of EPA/DHA totals to know how to convert with whatever you are taking. Just thinking out loud....

As for the pharma grade I have no idea if that is really something true or just fancy marketing terms to make something more pricey.

You beat me to it darn you MOD!!!

Seriously though, what I have heard is at his certifications they talk about the high dose of fish oil thing. The article had some discussions from people that claimed to be level I trainers and they said the high dose fish oil thing was only to be done for like a month and after a month you don't need anywhere as much. as the initial month. I'm sure you can find the guy talkign about it if you wish to search through all the discussion pages.

That being said I tried doing the 30 grams/day using capsules and that lasted a little less than a week. UGH!

John Alston
10-30-2007, 06:29 AM
I believe it all started from the original interview with Poliquin

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1371812

Although in todays world with so many different versions of fish oil, super strength EPA, DHA doubled, etc....would make sense to talk more in terms of EPA/DHA totals to know how to convert with whatever you are taking. Just thinking out loud....


Right, that's it. And I think the Fortified Iron thread linked to some other thread, maybe on anabolic minds or something... one take on the origin of it all, from POliquin:

The Single Best Supplement

Q: What's one supplement that every athlete, weekend warrior, and basically any active person should be taking daily?

A: Fish oil. I was first introduced to fish oil twelve years ago by my friend Mauro DiPasquale. I was over at his house and he had fish oil on the counter. I asked him what he used it for and he said, "Charles, this is the most important supplement ever."

He told me to go to Medline and punch in any disease known to man and the words "fish oil" beside it. He challenged me to find a study that didn't show how fish oil could benefit in the treatment of any disease. I gave up after 86 studies!

Why is it so beneficial? It's in our genes. Humans used to consume 300-400 grams of omega-3s per week. If we consume more than two grams a day now it's considered a lot.

There was a study published four years ago that showed that if the US government issued three grams of fish oil per day to American citizens, then the amount of cancer and heart disease would go down by 50% within one year. Most readers don't care about cancer and heart disease, but they may care about this: the biggest limiting factor in naturally training people to getting lean and adding muscle is the consumption (or lack thereof) of omega-3s.

Looking at the body structure of cavemen, they had a lot of muscle mass compared to modern man. They got their omega-3s through the meats they ate. Now, they often ate what the predators left. For example, a lion will eat an antelope from the gut on, so what's left is the skull and long bones. Primitive man would break the skull open and eat the brains. Brains are 60% fat, and 60% of that is DHA, the omega-3. What they've found is that the more brain-sucking was going in those populations, the faster the IQ went up.

"I've lost my appetite."

Primitive man would also break the bones of the prey and suck the marrow, also rich in omega-3, DHA particularly. DHA is the omega-3 most responsible for brain development while EPA is most associated with reducing inflammation.

My athletes would often recognize each other when sitting around a table because those I'd be training would break out the fish oil during the meal. That's how I got the nickname "the fish oil guy" among athletes. But that's also how I get people so lean so fast.

Anyone who wants to put on muscle and lose fat should be on 30-45 grams of fish oil per day. That's just three tablespoons of fish oil. It would be a pain in the ass with capsules though because that's around 45 capsules per day, but it's easy with a straight oil.

Flameout is also a great product. I like the addition of CLA to the EPA and DHA because most of the population is deficient in CLA. When I travel abroad I bring four or five bottles of Flameout instead of my liquid fish oil and take four or five capsules a day.

For those of us interested in positively and optimally altering body composition and maximizing our training efforts, fish oils offer thirteen possible advantages:

1. Cell membrane health: EPA and DHA insure that cell membranes remain healthy. This means that the membranes are flexible and contain larger numbers of insulin receptors that are more receptive and responsive to circulating insulin. This results in decreased fat storage in the adipocytes (fat cells).

2. Fish oils turn on the lipolytic genes (fat burning genes).

3. Fish oils turn off the lipogenic genes (fat storage genes).

4. Fish oils diminish C-reactive proteins, a newly identified risk factor associated with various inflammatory diseases, including atherosclerosis, angina, coronary heart disease, heart attack, stroke, congestive heart failure, and diabetes. The DHA fraction of the fish oil seems to be one most responsible for that protective effect. DHA also has the best ability to reduce blood pressure.

5. Increase utilization of fat stores from the adipocytes.

6. Preferential utilization for energy production once stored in the adipocytes.

7. Reduced inflammation from physical training.

8. Pain management from the reduced inflammation.

9. EPA regulates blood supply to the brain which is essential in maintaining focus in weight training sessions. DHA is important in brain membranes, memory, and cognitive function.

10. Fish oils increase serotonin levels (the happy neurotransmitter). Therefore, fish oils will decrease incidence of depression, anxiety, panic attack, and reduce carbohydrate cravings.

11. Fish oils will improve your cardiovascular risk profile by lowering VLDL, triglycerides, homocysteine, fibrinogen, and increasing HDL levels. Combining fish oils with plant sterols will improve lipid levels even more than either alone.

12. Fish oils can also decrease blood pressure by several mechanisms. These include increases in the vasodilatory compound, nitric oxide, reducing vascular inflammation, blocking the constrictive elements in the vascular wall such as the calcium channels reducing blood viscosity, and inhibiting a blood vessel constrictor (thromboxane). Lipoprotein (a) is another CVD predictor that can be lowered by fish oils (a 19% reduction was seen with natural, stable fish oils and just 4% with a highly purified fish oil).

13. Fish oils are a great stress fighter. Supplementation with n-3 fatty acids inhibits the adrenal activation of steroids, aldosterone, epinephrine, and norepinephrine (catecholamines) elicited by a mental stress, apparently through effects exerted at the level of the central nervous system. Therefore, for the same amount of stress, one will produce fewer stress hormones if consuming fish oils on a regular basis.

In short, fish oil is my number one supplement recommendation!

Here's the source for that quote and more, plus an earlier thread on people mega dosing. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/75353-gr-easy-ejls.html

Mike ODonnell
10-30-2007, 10:16 AM
I always found this part the most interesting...

Looking at the body structure of cavemen, they had a lot of muscle mass compared to modern man. They got their omega-3s through the meats they ate. Now, they often ate what the predators left. For example, a lion will eat an antelope from the gut on, so what's left is the skull and long bones. Primitive man would break the skull open and eat the brains. Brains are 60% fat, and 60% of that is DHA, the omega-3. What they've found is that the more brain-sucking was going in those populations, the faster the IQ went up.

So really in Paleo man what was the ratio of EPA to DHA consumption? Did they get more DHA through the brains? Did they get more EPA through all that "grass fed" meat they ate? Considering fish oil is more a 2:1 ratio of EPA/DHA are we really needing more of a 1:1 ratio? More DHA? Should we take a DHA fortified supplement? Which is more responsible for the reduction of cortisol? (aka keep more muscle)

Funny....I hear 3 tablespoons and I think...ehhh, average.....not "high dose"...but then again I forget that most people take one capsule a week or something...and then fill up on Omega 6 grains and wonder why they have inflammation issues of the joints, heart, etc....

Mike ODonnell
10-30-2007, 10:53 AM
in a related topic Dr Eades blog talks about a new book and highlights Krill Oil...which I find somewhat interesting (but also very expensive!!)

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/2007/10/29/the-brain-trust-program-krill-oil-and-menopause/

I’m going to excerpt a little from his section on supplemental nutrition for the brain. Many readers of this blog appear to be interested in krill oil, so we’ll see what Dr. McCleary has to say about it.

Krill, tiny shrimp-like creatures, inhabit the lowest rung of the food ladder, dining mainly on plankton, which are the actual omega-3 factories. As a result, krill enjoy a low risk of being contaminated by the mercury or other toxins present in their larger fishy cousins. Their oil, in my opinion, is the best source of essential brain fats available. Not only does krill oil provide substantial amounts of EPA and DHA but it also contains a rich supply of another group of critical fatty substances necessary for brain and nerve cell membranes to function properly: the phospholipids, which play important roles in signal transmission, in energy generation, and in the construction of the insulation coating myelin (which helps speed conduction along the brain’s communication pathways). The omega-3 fatty acids in krill oil are bound to these phospholipids. This unique relationship greatly facilitates the passage of the fatty acid molecules through your intestinal wall making them much more bioavailable (easily incorporated by the body). The predominant phospholipid in krill oil is phosphatidylcholine, making it a rich source of choline, which many studies have demonstrated as being important in brain development, learning, and memory. It is also the precursor for the vital memory neurotransmitter acetylcholine.

Krill oil also naturally contains high concentrations of a number of healthy antioxidant compounds that not only protect the krill oil but also protect your brain… These include vitamin A, vitamin E, astaxanthin, and canthaxanthin. Astaxanthin forms a special linkage with EPA and DHA, thus making it more readily available to the body than other antioxidants on the market. For this reason, while consumption of fish oil breaks down and therefore decreases your body’s antioxidant concentrations, krill oil actually increases levels of antioxidants in the body.

Garrett Smith
10-30-2007, 12:14 PM
I'm hesitant about krill oil, mainly because of the possibility of major harm to all the of the food chains that build from them. There are already overfishing problems with the omega-3 fish populations from the fish oil industry.

Casey Williams
10-30-2007, 01:43 PM
So Dr. G what brands do u recomend? I take Carlson's fish oil liquid right now.

Garrett Smith
10-30-2007, 01:49 PM
Carlson's is a good enough brand.

I use a combination of ProThera fish oil and Green Pastures "Blue Ice Gold Therapeutics" super-high potency CLO.

Since I use the liquids of both, I can get the ~2900mg EPA+DHA in the one teaspoon of fish oil, and 5000IU A + 500IU D in 1mL (~1/4 tsp) of the Green Pastures oil (plus some Activator X Butter Oil is included in that oil too, increasing utilization).

For folks who use the capsules, it takes 4 of the fish oil caps and one high-potency CLO cap to get to very similar numbers.

I hear a lot of things about the sourcing of the vitamins A & D in various CLOs (as in some manufacturers supposedly add back in synthetic versions after the molecular distillation), so I really want to stick to the Green Pastures folks for that product.

Mike ODonnell
10-30-2007, 02:09 PM
So Dr. G what brands do u recomend? I take Carlson's fish oil liquid right now.

interesting report on consumer lab...dont have a full access to find out which ones "failed".
http://www.consumerlab.com/results/omega3.asp

josh everett
10-30-2007, 03:20 PM
Dr G...
I currently take 3 costco tablets w/ breakfast & Dinner. At luch I take a tablespoon and a half of Carlsons. Is this enough for 185lb male? I'm pretty active should i take more?

Garrett Smith
10-30-2007, 05:41 PM
Josh,
The Cosco softgels contain (last time I checked) ~300mg EPA+DHA per 1000mg fish oil softgel. So 6 in a day would get you to ~1800mg (6g fish oil). 1.5 Tbsp of Carlson's would get you somewhere around 4500mg EPA+DHA (~19g fish oil). So you're approximately around 6300mg EPA+DHA per day, a total of around 25g of "fish oil" a day. That's a pretty good amount.

While you're not exactly my patient, I'd say you don't need any more. You might do well with less. Also, if you get lots of California sun, you may not need as much A&D from the CLO. It would be wise for you to research the side effects of too much Vitamin D (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-vitamind.html#Safety):

Early symptoms of hypercalcemia may include nausea, vomiting, and anorexia (appetite/weight loss), followed by polyuria (excess urination), polydipsia (excess thirst), weakness, fatigue, somnolence, headache, anorexia, dry mouth, metallic taste, vertigo, tinnitus (ear ringing), and ataxia (unsteadiness).

If you notice any of these, cut back or cut out the CLO. Also, if you are still eating the nightshades, this hypercalcemia can become more of an insidious problem (the nightshades have a vitamin D-like effect, not totally similar, and I don't believe it shows up on blood tests for Vitamin D).

Long story short, I think you're fine. If your budget is straining, I'd say you could take out a half Tablespoon of the CLO and still be well covered.

Casey Williams
10-30-2007, 06:00 PM
Dr. G where is the best and cheapest place to purchase these brands you recommend?

Chris Forbis
10-31-2007, 03:13 AM
Carlsons fish oil is cheapest from Amazon, I have found. I buy it 3 bottles at a time, and it works out to less than $25 a bottle.

Allen Yeh
10-31-2007, 05:42 AM
Is Josh taking Carlsons CLO or Carlsons fish oil?

Casey, I typically buy my Carlsons(CLO and fish oil) and Coromega from vitaminshoppe.com I typically get 1 bottel for $25.

josh everett
10-31-2007, 06:44 AM
Thnaks Dr. G
Allen: I'm using carlson's fish oil.

Mike ODonnell
10-31-2007, 06:49 AM
Casey, I typically buy my Carlsons(CLO and fish oil) and Coromega from vitaminshoppe.com I typically get 1 bottel for $25.

Is that the 8oz or 16.9oz bottle? Vitacost has the 16.9oz for $23.
http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-The-Very-Finest-Fish-Oil

Garrett Smith
10-31-2007, 06:56 AM
Casey,
I don't do research like that on prices, I just sell what I recommend out of my office.

ProThera is a physician-direct brand. I sell the Green Pastures oils at their retail price from their website.

One can always look for the cheapest route or one can support others who may have higher prices (due to less volume and better customer service) for other reasons. As in, there's no one from Amazon here on this board offering their opinion for free in this area.

If you'd like to find out prices and/or order from me, the contact info (ask for Cori) is on my website link in my signature.

Allen Yeh
10-31-2007, 06:57 AM
Is that the 8oz or 16.9oz bottle? Vitacost has the 16.9oz for $23.
http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-The-Very-Finest-Fish-Oil

The 16.9, good stuff on the vitacost I'll check it out next time.

John Alston
11-05-2007, 09:02 AM
http://www.supplementwarehouse.com/viewitem.asp?idproduct=153455
A still cheaper deal on fishoil.
Also, I think some of the leaning out effects posted about on the FI board I linked earlier are happening to me. I'm less than 2 weeks into it, and have been a little ill, not exercising much, but the mirror report is positive. Of course that's maybe the most unreliable way to do it.