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View Full Version : The Super-Accumulation Program


Allen Yeh
06-11-2007, 10:48 AM
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1605986
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1605986
Yikes, I never did his German volume training but this program seems to be a bit insane.

Allen Yeh
06-11-2007, 10:50 AM
Err somehow I posted this twice.

Greg can you delete this one or merge the threads? Thanks!

Robert Allison
06-11-2007, 01:23 PM
Supercompensation is an interesting concept and taking it to the level that Poliquin outlines would make for an interesting experiment. But as he acknowledges, it is difficult, if not impossible for a person with other commitments to make something like this work. For example, I am unwilling to re-order my priorities to accomodate two workouts / day.

I wonder if it is possible to achieve the same results with just one WO per day? I have thought about taking maybe 2 or 3 full body lifts and just hammering them for two weeks, and then taking a break. But I don't know that would be sufficient to activate the supercompensation effect.

Dave Van Skike
06-11-2007, 01:37 PM
I've done a similar protocol for speed endurance work.

Two weeks of bike racing, solid. It's the "stay in town stage race." Train and race every day, speed work or short LT intervals in the AM

Race every evening, Except monday.

Monday was speed work at the track,two hours
Tuesday 1.5 hour circuit race,
wednesday evening mountain bike race, cyclocross format. 1 hour event.
Thursday critierium 1 hour
Friday track, omnium, multi events.
Saturday local critierium. hour to an hour and half
Sunday Mountain Bike race, 25-35 miles

...repeat twice.

All the stuff about homicidal tendencies and depression is spot on, freakish weight loss and massive dip in performance as well. Two weeks of hell, take a week off and ride very easy every other day...then.

Boom~you are now fast

For mortals, It works about once or twice per season then the candle is burnt.

I imaoigine you'd have to be highly tuned, using exegenous hormones or really really have your nutrition and rest dialed to make it work very often. I'd say if you are in a positon to ask if you can do it in one workout a day, you really don't want to be doing it.

Mike ODonnell
06-11-2007, 01:46 PM
It will work....but I personally wouldn't want to go through 2 weeks of hell, drooling, depression, tiredness, overtraining, etc....not really a healthy lifestyle model for me....the 40g of Fish oil a day is getting expensive too....

I've heard of the 5 on-5 off before....workout 5x a week killing the muscles....and then watch yourself get bigger just sitting on the beach....

Robb Wolf
06-11-2007, 03:45 PM
Density training seems tough to beat int his regard. You can pack in so much volume in such a small window of time. Something like a DL, Weighted pull-up, standing press. Use a 10RM weight and hammer out 5-8 reps on the movements, rounds in 20 min. 3-4x/week. Increase volume, loading blah, blah blah.

Allen Yeh
06-12-2007, 03:59 AM
It will work....but I personally wouldn't want to go through 2 weeks of hell, drooling, depression, tiredness, overtraining, etc....not really a healthy lifestyle model for me....the 40g of Fish oil a day is getting expensive too....

I've heard of the 5 on-5 off before....workout 5x a week killing the muscles....and then watch yourself get bigger just sitting on the beach....

From the article on top of the fish oil, he recommended 40 grams of BCAA's each workout so that's 18 workouts in 2 weeks.

Also:
-4-5 grams of Lysine daily for 2 weeks
-80 grams of glutamine per day for the 5 recovery days
-double dose alpha male for the 5 days

That's a huge time commitment and wallet commitment when you don't even count all the food and the protein powder...etc There is now way I could rearrange my schedule enough to be able to do that, that and I think my wife might kick my ass if I become a miserable S.o.B for 2 weeks.

Robert Allison
06-12-2007, 12:34 PM
Density training seems tough to beat int his regard. You can pack in so much volume in such a small window of time. Something like a DL, Weighted pull-up, standing press. Use a 10RM weight and hammer out 5-8 reps on the movements, rounds in 20 min. 3-4x/week. Increase volume, loading blah, blah blah.

I was thinking something along those lines, but maybe going 40 minutes instead of 20. My diet & rest are pretty solid, but, like Allen, I don't seem myself committing to Poliquin's program, even for two weeks. Too much else going on...

In any case, I will probably save that for late fall / early winter. I am finishing up a SS cycle now and will probably move more into some met-con work for the summer.

Chris Forbis
06-12-2007, 02:30 PM
I only see this being feasible in two ways (preferably both).

1. Your coach breathes fire.

2. Your livelihood is dependent upon it.

I have difficulty seeing anyone commit to this otherwise. But then, I always was a pansy.

Don Stevenson
06-12-2007, 03:50 PM
I did something pretty similar last year.

Deadlifts and push press + the full smolov in the morning 3-4 days a week and then 4 sessions of Olympic lifting a week in the afternoon.

For three weeks I walked like a zombie and was eating about twice my normal food intake. I was absolutely shattered and my weightlifting performance went completely out the window.

However I did put on about 3kg of pretty much all muscle and in the next few weeks I added 15kg to my squat and a fair bit to my other lifts.

As an aside, lets see if anyone can name the Olympic lifter in the photo from the T nation article

Jesse Woody
06-13-2007, 02:08 PM
Well, I'm trying it, mainly because I live in a gym, I happen to have a couple of extra bucks for supplements, and because one of my Primal Fitness space monkeys, Will, was intrigued and agreed to do it with me. I'm interested in two aspects: 1: Improving performance, which can have some financial benefits at the moment, and 2: just proving to myself that I can work this hard. I've modified the program to get rid of all of the tripe like leg curls etc. and replaced that with some O-lift variations and some Parkour-specific training. I'm keeping it all in my training log over in the APK forums if anybody is interested in my demise ;)

Sam Cannons
06-13-2007, 03:23 PM
Hey Don that is Ben Turner from QLD one strong muther

http://www.qwa.org/Alist/turner.ASP

-Ross Hunt
06-13-2007, 05:44 PM
I experienced this pheneomenon last summer. The training schedule was different: It was two days on, one day off, but with workouts from 2 to 3 hours long, sometimes longer, doing a lot of volume in pulls, presses, and oly lifts. I gained 7-10 kilos in a couple months (85-95).

But there is a question as to how sustainable this sort of thing is. Anybody can train themselves into the ground for two weeks. People who have been training hard for a couple years can repeat it a couple times. But then what? How do you keep the muscle mass and the strength that you built by jacking up the volume and intensity when you your one to five months of tolerance for that kind of training are up? Within a few months, my strength gains stagnated and my body weight fell back to 85 kilos; fortunately, I kept some of the strength. Right now I am trying to take a more gradual and balanced approach to developing tolerance for sustained volume and intensity (more, shorter workouts; more rep range variation).

Don Stevenson
06-13-2007, 05:48 PM
awwww man you spoiled the fun. I wanted to watch all the guesses from the 'mericans

Ross,

My experience with this sort of thing is that you beat yourself up for a couple of weeks, back off and recover and then resume a normal type training plan. You couldn't possibly do this more than a couple of times a year and not get hurt or worn out.

You'd maintain your gains in strength as long as your new program reflects the increases. For example if you are squatting 150 when you start and 170 a month later there is no point going back to the weights you were using before the program.

as far as muscle mass, i'm not so sure but i've stayed above 95kg since last year even on a fairly low volume program.

Allen Yeh
06-14-2007, 03:28 AM
Well, I'm trying it, mainly because I live in a gym, I happen to have a couple of extra bucks for supplements, and because one of my Primal Fitness space monkeys, Will, was intrigued and agreed to do it with me. I'm interested in two aspects: 1: Improving performance, which can have some financial benefits at the moment, and 2: just proving to myself that I can work this hard. I've modified the program to get rid of all of the tripe like leg curls etc. and replaced that with some O-lift variations and some Parkour-specific training. I'm keeping it all in my training log over in the APK forums if anybody is interested in my demise ;)

I'd be curious to how this works out for you.

Jesse Woody
06-20-2007, 02:38 PM
I'd be curious to how this works out for you.

As the spacemonkey mentioned previously, I figured I'd give you an update.

Jesse and I are on day 9 of the program and I can safely speak for the both of us when I say I cannot wait for this thing to be over. Even if you have the time and means to pull this off, I would be wary of taking the plunge. Perhaps the results will be so dramatic as to change my mind, but at this stage I can recommend several faster ways to kill yourself.
All of the grizzly side effects mentioned in the T-Nation article rear their ugly heads within the first 3 days and snowball as you continue. the loss of appetite is insane, making downing the recommended protein requirements almost as bad as the workouts themselves, and no matter how tired you are at the end of the day, sleep is just out of reach (at least for me, Jesse doesn't seem to have this problem).
I will keep you updated near the end of this thing, and again once I have recovered and start going for PRs.

Will Schultz
06-20-2007, 02:43 PM
Jesse's last post was written by me.The fact that I'm to exasuted to recognize that I was logged in as him should give you an idea of that this thing will do to you.

Jesse Woody
06-20-2007, 02:46 PM
(at least for me, Jesse doesn't seem to have this problem).

I actually think I might be asleep right now. Tendonitis, check, performance decrease, check, lack of appetite, check.

Being glad that you only have three days, i.e. 5 workouts left: priceless.

Daniel Miller
06-20-2007, 03:03 PM
Is the tendonitis in your elbow from the pull-ups?

Will Schultz
06-20-2007, 05:30 PM
In part, yes. The bigger contributor to the tendonitis is probably the catleap topouts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc0aITxefX8)we have included as part of our parkour skills in the workout.

Steven Low
06-20-2007, 06:05 PM
IMO the worst part is decreased appetite. Forcing down food when you don't feel hungry feels very, very odd at least to me.

Allen Yeh
06-26-2007, 09:45 AM
I actually think I might be asleep right now. Tendonitis, check, performance decrease, check, lack of appetite, check.

Being glad that you only have three days, i.e. 5 workouts left: priceless.

How's the refeed/recovery going?

Jesse Woody
06-26-2007, 12:47 PM
Altogether relatively well, though I came down with a nasty cold Sunday and Monday...recovering well-enough today, though, and feeling much better altogether. Eating a lot, but trying to keep it halfway healthy if at all possible ;) I have a couple of days worth of workouts to update in my APK log, but the overall gist was that the lifts sucked, mood sucked, aches and pains sucked, but I'm glad I stuck with it. I think we lacked the 110% mentality that Poliquin was looking for, though it might have just felt lax because of the lack of mental drive towards the end. I also wanted to actually avoid the "100% concentric failure on every set" idea, as I'm not worried so much about getting huge as I am keeping up strength and breaking some plateaus that way.

I'll update once I finish this week and start in on our program next week.

Allen Yeh
06-28-2007, 01:08 AM
What did your supplements look like during the program? As CP originally recommended or did you tweak it?

Jesse Woody
07-02-2007, 08:17 AM
I basically followed his recommendations, though a few things were different; Surge pre/and post workout as usual, Post workout creatine, supplemental protein. BCAA's didn't come in the mail until the end of the first week, but after that we took them to the tune of 40g per workout. I never met the protein or calorie recommendations but I actually gained 5lb over two weeks, which I attribute to the BCAA's. Lots of Flameout, usually 6-8 caps a day as I had run out of Carlson's to make up the difference.

As a quick update, did a ME deadlift on Thursday of last week and went from 375 to 405 myself (which was my old max before foot surgery) while Will went from 325 to 395. Not a bad increase for 2 weeks worth of work. Snatches this morning were strong too, though not terribly heavy at 125 for 3x3. That's not bad considering I can't remember exactly the last time I did full Olympic Snatches.

Some random Parkour training yesterday felt stronger and faster than usual, though some nagging injuries are still keeping me away from 100% during dynamic movements. I'll update some more as this week goes along and I get a better feel for some of the changes.

Allen Yeh
07-02-2007, 08:48 AM
Very interesting stuff....now all I need to do is take a vacation from my job for 2 weeks along with get tons of supps....haha maybe next year. Definitely very interesting results though, thanks for keeping us posted.

Scotty Hagnas
07-21-2007, 08:40 AM
Interesting stuff, Jesse. Do you have a link for your log? I tried to find your log on APK, but couldn't.

I hope to stop in and visit your gym later this year, if I can get away.

Scotty Hagnas
CrossFit Portland

Jesse Woody
07-22-2007, 07:21 AM
That would be awesome Scotty, let me know when you might be by!

I go by my Parkour-community pseudonym on the forums "gearsighted" here's the link to my log:

http://www.americanparkour.com/smf/index.php?topic=1569.0

haven't updated in a couple of weeks, busy at work, but it has the entire accumulation program included.

Scotty Hagnas
07-22-2007, 08:20 PM
Jesse-

Thanks!

We are probably looking at October for the East Coast trip. I'll be sure to contact you beforehand.

Scotty Hagnas
CrossFit Portland