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View Full Version : No more Big Boned kids....they are FAT!!


Mike ODonnell
06-13-2007, 06:16 PM
So I guess no more "it's ok your just big boned"....

CHICAGO - Doctors ought to quit using fuzzy terms to define children’s weight problems and instead refer to truly fat kids as overweight or obese, a committee of medical experts recommended.

Since most parents and physicians are to blame with this whole loving approach that no kid will ever listen too.....the truth hurts....lets kids learn life is hard....and it's not going to be roses all the time.....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19194146/

Scott Kustes
06-13-2007, 06:21 PM
I agree. Call a spade a spade.

Allen Yeh
06-14-2007, 03:30 AM
“I’ve had mothers ask me not to use the (obese) label,” he said. “Sometimes you can see it in the child’s face. They’re ashamed.”

Am I an ass if I don't see what the problem is if you make them feel ashamed????

joe murphy
06-14-2007, 07:21 AM
Am I an ass if I don't see what the problem is if you make them feel ashamed????

honestly? yes.

using shame as a motivator means you've run out of good ideas. if you can't raise a kid with positive reinforcement, stick to owning dogs.

Allen Yeh
06-14-2007, 07:59 AM
honestly? yes.

using shame as a motivator means you've run out of good ideas. if you can't raise a kid with positive reinforcement, stick to owning dogs.

It is in reference to the article. I'm not talking about raising children or any such thing but if you'd like to discuss that we can talk on private messages.

I'm not saying the Dr. should be telling the kid he's a fatass but how is a doctor supposed to use positive reinforcement for an obese child?

"It looks like you have gained another 15 pounds since our last checkup, I'm glad you have started to walk once a week though."

joe murphy
06-14-2007, 08:12 AM
replace "you" with "one" in my previous post, as it was not directed at you, allen. it was intended to be a general statement.

as for the doctor, if he can't figure out a way to help kids without shaming them, then he should become a vet. that's the type of victorian era thinking that we should all be done with.

somewhere between shaming kids and "we're all winners, so lets not keep score" is the great middle ground we know as common sense.

Ron Nelson
06-14-2007, 08:37 AM
OK, I'm confused. Is Allen an ass or not?

I was big boned as a child. Then I lost about 100 lbs as an adult and found out I wasn't even "large framed."

-Ross Hunt
06-14-2007, 09:26 AM
replace "you" with "one" in my previous post, as it was not directed at you, allen. it was intended to be a general statement.

as for the doctor, if he can't figure out a way to help kids without shaming them, then he should become a vet. that's the type of victorian era thinking that we should all be done with.

somewhere between shaming kids and "we're all winners, so lets not keep score" is the great middle ground we know as common sense.

If you're going to contend that using shame to reinforce morality (in this case, self-restraint) is dated, it seems to me that you need to make some sort of argument to the effect that it isn't necessary.

Mike ODonnell
06-14-2007, 09:42 AM
Alan is an ass......

Tell a kid that their "body" (not "You") is obese and it can be fixed....don't have to associate the obesity with the personal identity of the child...obesity doesn't define who a person is, just the current state of their health which they have the power to change once they decide to do so....you empower too much of obesity to the personal identity then people get depressed and go the whole "it's all my genetics and I have no choice" route....thank doctors for that one...

Chuck Kechter
06-14-2007, 11:23 AM
using shame as a motivator means you've run out of good ideas. if you can't raise a kid with positive reinforcement, stick to owning dogs.

Tell a kid that their "body" (not "You") is obese and it can be fixed....don't have to associate the obesity with the personal identity of the child...obesity doesn't define who a person is, just the current state of their health which they have the power to change once they decide to do so....you empower too much of obesity to the personal identity then people get depressed and go the whole "it's all my genetics and I have no choice" route....thank doctors for that one...

Agree with both of these...

joe murphy
06-14-2007, 12:20 PM
If you're going to contend that using shame to reinforce morality (in this case, self-restraint) is dated, it seems to me that you need to make some sort of argument to the effect that it isn't necessary.

so now the kid's fat is a moral issue? please ...

Dave Van Skike
06-14-2007, 01:38 PM
If you're going to contend that using shame to reinforce morality (in this case, self-restraint) is dated, it seems to me that you need to make some sort of argument to the effect that it isn't necessary.

When your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails.

He's not saying it isn't "neccesary"
to reduce childhood obesity, he's saying shame is a dangerous way to motivate people.

There is a great article flaoting out there, I'll look for it, maybe it was the Atlantic monthly that looks at Shame as a cultural tool. The article was about 20 pages long but very good, if not entirely conclusive on way or the other.

I would suggest the sporting, physical enhancement, health and longetvity communty (whatever PM falls into) both owes a debt to and must wrestle against the way our culture hamfistedly uses shame to spur people to action.

David Wood
06-15-2007, 12:29 PM
Speaking as a former fat kid (the kindest of my nicknames was "Pillsbury Doughboy", it all went downhill from there), allow me to assure you that *every* fat kid out there knows he's fat, and already feels shame about it.

Having his doctor and/or parents beating him up, too, isn't going to do anything that daily playground humiliation isn't already accomplishing.

I like Mike's view: separate "identity" from the current physical condition, and show them a way out. Show that you care about them, enough to actually work with them on it.

(When I was 12, I was hospitalized for something or other. I was in PT and watching this other kid (about my age, and *very* fit (washboard abs and all that, at 12)) doing situps under the watchful eye of both the PT and his father. I remember hating myself, my fat body, and wishing that someone showed as much interest in helping me as those two adults were doing for him. But my parents were into the "shame" method.)

Yes, it may take some trouble to get them there, and yes, they will eventually have to do it themselves. I lost weight (at 16) when my father gave me a goal (climbing Mt. Whitney by moonlight) which I was willing to suffer some discomfort for.

Mike ODonnell
06-15-2007, 01:28 PM
Having his doctor and/or parents beating him up, too, isn't going to do anything that daily playground humiliation isn't already accomplishing.

It's hard especially when dealing with kids....as I know what teasing can lead too (all the years of 4 eyes.....). BUT doctors (and parents) need to realize though that if they are keeping the kids obese (aka shortening their life span and taking away from their health), then THEY are failing at their job. Much like if you are a trainer and your client is not losing fat, you need to be fired. Most people never listen to the nice friendly advice doctors give out....and tend to only listen to the harsher "Do this to get healthy or you will die..." type of advice.....so finding the correct way to get the end result is all that should matter....and people should not associate themselves with how they look, etc...unlike what mainstream media would have you believe....a person can change all the stuff on the outside...it doesn't change the inside.

John Vernon
06-15-2007, 02:10 PM
...a whole lot of warm & fuzzy memories floating around this thread. I think we should all take a page out of Dale Sturtevant's book. It may not directly relate but I think there are some very good parallels.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1574848938

Dave Van Skike
06-15-2007, 03:43 PM
That is gold.

Elliot Royce
06-16-2007, 05:38 AM
I don't think there's a single obese child (or adult) who isn't aware 24 hours a day of their obesity, particularly in this more body conscious time. So it's not a matter of telling them they're obese (might as well point out that teenagers have acne on their faces), but rather pointing them towards some solutions. I suspect that many doctors are not well-equipped to give the kid a concrete path to more exercise and a better diet. Perhaps this already exists, but pediatricians should have a nutrition/training consultant in their offices and insurance should cover the cost of some guidance on diet and exercise for the kids (monthly review sessions or something).