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View Full Version : Quality vs. IF: Opinions?


Greg Battaglia
07-12-2007, 05:41 PM
Just curious what everyone's stance was on this. The IF studies done on rodents (and humans too, I believe) paid little or no attention to food quality given to the test subjects. I believe the IFing mice were fed a very high carb processed diet, yet still saw dramatic health improvements/life extension. Considering that things like beans, whole grains, and raw dairy aren't the WORST things to be consumed (that would be processed food of course), adding these foods to an IF diet probably wouldn't make much of a difference. Or would it? I mean, look at Ross Enamait. The guy eats plentiful amounts of beans, grains, and dairy (raw milk) and he's a complete animal. I guess I'll sort of treat this like a survey, so basically A) Would you IF with all whole foods (including non-paleo whole foods like grains, beans, dairy) or B) No IF, but only paleo foods ad libitum. It would be interesting to see the results of a study comparing "normal" food IF mice (or even better, humans!) to ad lib paleo mice. Both seem to be very powerful in improving health, and fit the evolutionary model, but I wonder which is more powerful?

Stuart Mather
07-12-2007, 06:34 PM
Greg, isn't the third option, ie. IF using high quality low carb uprocessed , even better?

Stuart.

Mike ODonnell
07-12-2007, 07:45 PM
I don't know Ross' daily health....does he suffer from inflammation? Does he have other issues and injuries? Will he be just as healthy in 10 years? All questions to consider before you look at someone and say "Well it works for him"...as I can find Olympic quality athletes who may have heart conditions or other medical concerns....

Ideally IF with Paleo food should give you maximum health....if you have non paleo foods here and there your body can probably deal with it just fine...it's the repeated use that adds up on our whole health.....I believe fasting is a important healing process the body needs whether IF....one day a week...or whatever....as for which is more powerful? Probably would be independent to the person as everyone has different base of health to start from.....

Troy Archie
07-12-2007, 07:56 PM
Do what works for you.

I wish I could bread and have a 6-pack, hell I'd love to be able to eat a peice of bread and not feel bloated and unsatisfied and craving more. It would also be great to be able to eat kidney beans and not have wicked gas but alas...

Greg Battaglia
07-12-2007, 09:13 PM
Oh, I know, I'm definitely not suggesting that anyone switch from paleo to non-paleo. I just found it interesting that IF was so powerful that it trumped a highly processed diet. As for Ross, if you peruse over at his message boards at all he tends to chime in every so often and has certainly commented that his health is nothing short of vibrant. He claims to feel excellent. He sure looks it too.

Yael Grauer
07-12-2007, 09:28 PM
I think there's individual variance... One way to test out allergies/reactions is to stop eating something for 30-40 days (at all at all at all), then reintroduce it into the diet quickly and in large amounts and see what happens. I've read that it takes four days for a mast cell/histamine response, so pig out on Thursday and see how you feel on Sunday. Oh, and make sure to take probiotics and CLO and mucilaginous herbal teas in those 30-40 days...

Brad Hirakawa
07-12-2007, 11:09 PM
What does mucilaginous mean?

:)

Steve Shafley
07-13-2007, 06:12 AM
Most folks don't have a problem with foods many here are concerned with. I do think that some care should be taken to eat quality foods, and with organic foods becoming more and more readily available and inexpensive, it should be easier and reasonable to eat more organic.

I IF 3-7 days a week. When I eat crap during the feeding window, I get crap results. I can eat 4000-5000 calories in 5 hours without a problem if I eat all the "junk" foods. It's not a problem.

When I eat "clean" then I'm lucky to get 2000 calories within that window. There's a balance to be struck, and I haven't struck it too often. I don't think you need to deny yourself the occasional splurge or comfort pizza, as long is it's infrequent and appreciated. Some folks get off on being aesthete and austere...if that's you, more power to you, but that's it's own kink.

As always, refer to the process of eliminating foods that might make you feel like shit. For example...I have a hideous sweet tooth, and I like donuts, but, invariably, after wolfing down 2-3 donuts, I will feel like crap, and that will stay with me for a few hours. More easily fatigued, a feeling of bloat, and just a general mild malaise.

Robert Allison
07-13-2007, 07:17 AM
What does mucilaginous mean?

:)

Mucilage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucilage)

From what I understand, mucilaginous herbs are generally valued for their ability to reduce inflammation and sooth the mucus membranes. They can also help with detoxification.

Yael Grauer
07-13-2007, 07:21 AM
And they are good for helping restore gut health, which is important so that you can feel a huge difference when you destroy it again by eating food you are allergic to. Mwahhaha.

Okay we learned something. ;)

(Now if only I could figure out why I get so drunk off of less than two beers...)

Robert Allison
07-13-2007, 08:42 AM
(Now if only I could figure out why I get so drunk off of less than two beers...)

That's probably because you're a lightweight... literally. :)

I am not sure what the science behind this is (if there is any), but anecdotally, many lighter people, especially women, seem to become intoxicated quite easily. One of my best friend's wife can drink about half a beer and she starts to act all goofy.

Of course, if may just be that men drink more and therefore build up a greater tolerance to alcohol.

Steve Shafley
07-13-2007, 11:15 AM
It's so ugly guys (or gals) actually have a shot.

Scotty Hagnas
07-13-2007, 12:46 PM
I find IF = lightweight when it comes to beer. Saves me money!

Back to the original topic, no way would I IF with grains, etc. I'm sure it's much better than ad libitum eating, but I'd feel like crap. Straight paleo, no IF would be preferable for me.

Scotty Hagnas
CrossFit Portland

Greg Everett
07-13-2007, 03:25 PM
I think it's really just points on a continuum. That is, you may get good results with IF + shitty food, but you'll get better results with IF + quality food. Just as you may get good results with zone proportions but better results with zone + paleo foods.

Greg Battaglia
07-13-2007, 04:13 PM
Cool. Greg, that's a good point. I wasn't attempting to justify eating non-paleo items. I was just curious as to what the communities opinion was on the topic. My feeling goes like this IF with a non-paleo diet is just as good as an ad lib paleo diet. IF + Paleo is optimal.

Greg Everett
07-13-2007, 04:15 PM
My feeling is that if you're doing IF and eat poorly, there's just a less to worry about; or, if you just can't square away the food quality, at least try to mitigate ill-effects by implementing IF.

Kevin Perry
07-13-2007, 08:00 PM
Hey new here from the Crossfit board.

How bad does eating "crappy foods" ( not including fast food, candy or sodas cause I really don't touch that crap) if it is only a couple times a week really effect the body if the person eats generally zone/paleo specific majority of the time? I don't eat a lot of bread, pasta, chicken salad wraps from chick fil-a, and cereal or dairy items often, sometimes only once or twice a week soetimes none. But I find splurging on those things every once and a while doesnt seem to put much a hinge on the diet, if not help it a little bit.

Steve Shafley
07-13-2007, 08:20 PM
Unless you are sensitive to those things, then, nothing, really.

Oftentimes it's a balance issue. Occasionally, a genuine health concern.

Troy Archie
07-13-2007, 09:39 PM
Often those "crappy foods" are a nice reprieve and treat. That said, as of late I've had no urge for any of that kind of food. I'm finding Paleo, high fat, IF'in to be working great and has cut all the cravings I used to get. I don't remember the last time I had a binge/munch out session...the foods that are on my menu have become my favorite foods now.

I remember a great line off the Crossfit message board, something along the lines of:
"great athletes with shitty diets don't perform great because of their diets but in spite of"

Ron Nelson
07-13-2007, 10:34 PM
And they are good for helping restore gut health, which is important so that you can feel a huge difference when you destroy it again by eating food you are allergic to. Mwahhaha.

Okay we learned something. ;)

(Now if only I could figure out why I get so drunk off of less than two beers...)

God, you are so my dream girl.

Alas, having been married 16 years, you come along much too late.

I had half a pizza and a pitcher of beer to break my fast today (whilst playing a trivia game at a local establishment. . .4th place out of 13 teams using 2 people, other teams had about 10) and I feel fine.

What was the question again?

Garrett Smith
07-14-2007, 05:31 PM
"Inter-individual variation of cytochrome P450s"

Just as some people run faster than others, some people's livers function better/worse with detoxifying different compounds.

Like my full-blood Korean buddy. He can drink like a fish, he's immune to morphine, and he was the only person I've heard of to get beta-carotene poisoning from too much carrot juice. That's an interesting CYP-450 system there.

Another variation is those folks (most commonly of Asian descent) who get all rosy-cheeked and very drunk off of 1-2 drinks. Many of them claim an allergy to alcohol, which isn't true, or any time they ate anything with carbs in in they'd be having an "allergic" reaction (some of the carbs we eat are invariably turned into alcohol). They don't have a CYP-450 system that can handle much alcohol at once. A little questioning would likely find interesting reactions to a whole host of things...

Allen Yeh
07-14-2007, 06:02 PM
Another variation is those folks (most commonly of Asian descent) who get all rosy-cheeked and very drunk off of 1-2 drinks. Many of them claim an allergy to alcohol, which isn't true, or any time they ate anything with carbs in in they'd be having an "allergic" reaction (some of the carbs we eat are invariably turned into alcohol). They don't have a CYP-450 system that can handle much alcohol at once. A little questioning would likely find interesting reactions to a whole host of things...

only 50% of Asians get that reaction right?

Greg Everett
07-14-2007, 06:34 PM
only 50% of Asians get that reaction right?

no, it affects the whole asian.

Garrett Smith
07-14-2007, 07:57 PM
Gosh, I hope I don't get assumed to be racist because of that comment...

I have no scientific research behind that statement (especially in terms of %), just my personal observations. Variations in CYP-450 enzymes can happen with anyone, like any other genetic "hand-me-downs".

Also, a previously incurred level of toxicity (metals, solvents) can inhibit specific CYP-450 enzyme systems.

Also, I agree with Greg E.'s statement about IF+quality food is best.

Allen Yeh
07-14-2007, 09:27 PM
Nah, I actually get the asian glow and had only read briefly that it was due to a lack of liver enzyme...but then at the same time that article i read said it was a 50/50 thing in the asian population.