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Daniel Roberts
07-15-2007, 01:17 AM
Hello Guys !

I'm not that skilled when it comes to nutrition , so this is how I do my IF ( I don't really know if it's IF , I've read Ori Hofmekler's Warrior Diet , and I started on it ) :

- I usually have a eating window between 5pm - 9pm
- I usually fast 24 hours , and when I eat , I eat whatever I want
- I train while fasting ( at 2pm )

What happes if you train after you feast ? What food should I eat , to maximize the weight loss ?

My goal is to burn fat , I need to lose about 20 pounds :)

Thanks for taking the time to read my post !

Troy Archie
07-15-2007, 10:08 AM
Before you go jumping off the deep end, tell us what "I eat whatever I want" constitutes as. McDonald's? Deep Fried Mars bars? Spinach? Grass-fed Beef?

I ask that question because you're going to have better results by simply cleaning up your diet and going paleo (http://www.thepaleodiet.com/index.shtml) rather than doing IF with shitty food. I’m thinking that if you did do IF’n with burgers and fries you’d get negative results but I’ve never tried it…

As for training after you feast...nothing wrong with that but training while in the fast will result in greater fat burn. If your feast is a FEAST then going for a training session afterwards might find you a bit sluggish.

Chris Forbis
07-15-2007, 10:29 AM
I think Ron pointed out in another thread that the next day's fast is more difficult if he eats too many junk carbohydrates.

Daniel Roberts
07-15-2007, 11:11 AM
Before you go jumping off the deep end, tell us what "I eat whatever I want" constitutes as. McDonald's? Deep Fried Mars bars? Spinach? Grass-fed Beef?


I kinda eat whatever is there , whether it's junk food , or healthy food . I guess that can't be so good , can it :) ?

Regarding the paleo diet , I don't even know where to start .

Troy Archie
07-15-2007, 12:23 PM
Start here (http://performancemenu.com/daily/index.php?show=daily&dailyID=140). Gold

Daniel Roberts
07-15-2007, 12:29 PM
Could you please explain ( in layman's terms ) , what blocks ( of food , I presume ) are ?

Thanks a lot !

Dan

Allen Yeh
07-16-2007, 07:27 AM
I prefer not to use the block method myself, eating cleanly will give you better results than eating whatever you want.

Not sure how much you weigh but here is what I'd recommend for your window:

-Get in at least LBM in protein in your window meaning if you weight 200 with 20% bodyfat then you should shoot for 160 g protein.
-Carbs - focus on getting carbs in from vegetables like broccoli, spinach...etc (pototos and corn don't count!), fruits are great too but don't over do it, vegetables first, fruits second
-fats - Focus on fats from things like olive oil, fish oil...etc

Example meals:
steak + broccoli (1-2 cups)
chicken+pesto+olive oil+parmesaean cheese + spinach (4-6 cups)

Ron Nelson
07-16-2007, 12:30 PM
I think Ron pointed out in another thread that the next day's fast is more difficult if he eats too many junk carbohydrates.

I think that's what I said. I think I might have said too many carbs period. Example: If I eat a ton of salad and vegetables during my feed and slight my protein and fat, I have hunger pangs beginning around 1 p.m.

Of course, today I had pangs around 11 a.m. because I ate all day yesterday. So, it's a little like starting the IF thing all over again.

Dave Van Skike
07-16-2007, 02:36 PM
Truth...

The hard part of IF is the I part.

For me, maintaining a consitent window of 3-4 hours keeps it the fasting part pretty easy to maintain, regardless of whether I eat like crap or completely clean during the window. if I take a day or two off and eat 3 squares a day or whatever, the transition back is very hard.

Mike ODonnell
07-16-2007, 03:22 PM
I'd recommend starting with eating clean all day first....getting the crap out and then tackling the IF portion, esp if you want weight loss. Obviously Paleo style eating works wonders....forget the zone in my opinion if your main goal is IF eventually...get at least 0.8g-1g/ean lb body weight of protein...you probably don't need over 100-80g of carbs/day...but some go as low as 30-40g and do fine....up your healthy fats for energy but not too much as you still want a calorie defecit.....stay active/burn calories/exercise....eat the basics veggies, meat, healthy fats, nuts and some fruits....at least if you are eating healthy and screw up the IF with hunger cravings, you will already have a basis of eating the right foods and won't be tempted to eat a whole pizza and feel like crap for the next day...trust me...I know that all too well....give yourself a cheat meal once a week to eat things you enjoy and so not to feel deprived and go insane, but earn that meal with good eating all week......not rocket science...just consistency day in and out will get you the results you are looking for.

William Hunter
07-16-2007, 04:22 PM
I'm finding IF to be great but a little like making a deal with the Devil. You think you'll dabble in it for just a little while, or just a few days a week...and then it sucks away your soul when you try to switch back and forth.

I've been stuck in IF for a while now, kinda like Chevy Chase in European Vacation when he can't get out of the traffic circle.

Troy Archie
07-16-2007, 08:05 PM
I love the consistent off the wall analogies on this forum...

Mike ODonnell
07-17-2007, 08:11 AM
I've been stuck in IF for a while now, kinda like Chevy Chase in European Vacation when he can't get out of the traffic circle.

Looks kids Big Ben...Parliment.....

Ron Nelson
07-17-2007, 08:57 AM
Funny, to me IF'ing is like catching any of the Vacation movies on TV. Once you see it's on, you can't stop watching. I started IF'ing in April as an experiment and still do it every day (few exceptions).

Last night, saw Vegas Vacation was on; couldn't stop watching.

"Who knew my sister had the legs of a thoroughbred, am I right dad?"

"Shut up, Rusty."

Robb Wolf
07-17-2007, 09:46 AM
Yea...I think intermittent fasting really streamlines things...and performance/health is good.

Rusty-"Wow Dad! You musta jumped that car 50 feet!"

Clarke-"That's nothing to be proud of son....Wow...50 feet..."

William Hunter
07-17-2007, 09:52 AM
"They call this stuff Hamburger Helper, but I think it does just fine by itself"

Mike ODonnell
07-17-2007, 09:54 AM
Funny, to me IF'ing is like catching any of the Vacation movies on TV. Once you see it's on, you can't stop watching. I started IF'ing in April as an experiment and still do it every day (few exceptions).

That's the good side of IF....the dark side is like watching any Jean Claude VanDamme or Steven Segal movie.....you know it is going to suck....you have seen it more than Roadhouse....you have commercial breaks to walk away or turn the channel....yet somehow 2hours later you watch the whole thing and regret wasting your life energy like that...but then realize it's a triple feature and look forward to "Bloodsport" which seems to be coming up next....

As for vacation...."This is crazy...this is crazy...."...doing that at the apartment pool many years ago got me....(PG version)...a kiss on the cheek from a girl at the pool....(if it was after 10pm I would have a different version...)

Brian Shanks
07-17-2007, 11:33 AM
I can't imagine trying to have the discipline to do IF without having the discipline to eat cleaner. Though I have noticed that after fasting I have a tendency to gravitate towards hamburgers and pizza then anything else.

I feel with the whole healthy eating/IFing that it is more like the Little Rascals episode where Alfalfa had the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other.

It is a war, take baby steps or set yourself up for failure.

PS: Just for the record, I got sucked into one of those crappy Segal movies you where talking about, just last night.

Bri

Ron Nelson
07-17-2007, 12:39 PM
I wasn't aware Steven Segal made crappy movies.

"You think you're above the law; well, you're not above MY law."

Jeff Bearden
07-17-2007, 01:01 PM
Okay, so what is the best way to resist the temptation to eat during the day? I get bored and eat at lunch sometimes. I know all the benefits of IF but just struggle with the willpower to not eat.

Robb Wolf
07-17-2007, 01:32 PM
If you are hungry at lunch, eat at lunch...make it workable. Any movement this direction, deleting a meal here and there while eating cleaner will provide benefit.

No rules, just what helps make life better.

Mike ODonnell
07-17-2007, 02:16 PM
It called "Intermittent" fasting for a reason.....no rules...do it whenever you want to fit it in....etc....

William Hunter
07-17-2007, 06:07 PM
Hey Jeff!

Like Robb and MOD said, if you're really hungry go ahead and eat. However, you also mentioned getting bored at lunchtime. I definitely struggled with that a bit at first, but for me it was just a matter of getting over the psychology of the noon meal. You've just been programmed to eat then, but you don't really have to if you're not hungry. I've been able to stay on top of my required office notes much more effectively b/c I'll crank from 12-1 while everyone else is scurrying around for food.

That being said, we get reps to cater lunch to our office about 6 times a month, and if it looks tasty, that's the day I break fast at noon. I have a strict policy about turning down free (good) food.

Jeff Bearden
07-17-2007, 06:19 PM
William,

Thanks for the advice. Sometimes I work through lunch too and I'm good as long as I'm busy. Sometimes I just plain get hungry so I might pop a handful of nuts or something. The biggest problem I'm having is making myself workout before I break fast in the evening. I'm really looking to cut some fat over the next few months.

BTW got the family moved back to GA. I still haven't called your MMA friend because I won't be there until around January myself.

Jeff

Mike ODonnell
07-17-2007, 07:26 PM
I found coffee helps to curb the hunger...must be the caffeine..

Chris Forbis
07-18-2007, 05:39 AM
I find myself WAY too sensitive to caffeine when fasting. When hunger pangs strike, a tablespoon of raw apple cider vinegar in 8 oz. of water does a pretty good job.

Eva Claire Synkowski
07-18-2007, 07:15 AM
i agree with mike. if you are able to handle the caffeine, iced americanos and drip coffee are the only way i get through the fast during the workday.

ill even down the caffeine pre/during a workout in a fasted state. i havent been too successful getting through a fasted-workout, otherwise.

Jeff Bearden
07-18-2007, 07:34 AM
I love coffee but can't drink it straight black all the time and I also find it gives me terrible heart burn on an empty stomach. I may try some unsweetened tea or soemthing like that.

Allen Yeh
07-18-2007, 08:10 AM
I find myself WAY too sensitive to caffeine when fasting. When hunger pangs strike, a tablespoon of raw apple cider vinegar in 8 oz. of water does a pretty god job.

I've found this helpful also.

Ron Nelson
07-18-2007, 08:45 AM
PeoplesayIdrinktoomuchcoffeebutIthinkthey'refullof shit.

They say the same thing about beer. I say the same thing.

Edward Friedman
07-18-2007, 01:59 PM
"My name is Eddie F. and I am a coffee addict."

"Hi Eddie"

"I'm 47 y.o. About 15+ years ago, I stopped a lifetime habit of coffee drinking, cold turkey. (My mom used to let me have some with lots of milk & sugar as a kid. ) By my late 20s I was drinking 6-8 cups per day. I'd heard mixed stuff about whether it is 'good for you' or not, and figured, even if it was not bad, it was not helping. ( By now, there might be evidence that it can be 'good'. Not talking about improving performance levels, more along the lines of health.) Anyway, the day after my cold turkey cessation, I got the Mother of All Headaches for hours. I remember thinking, if NOT having something could make me feel this awful, I gotta get it out of my system.)

Not a drop for 15+ years.

2.27.07. I start Fast-5. I find I am drinking LOTS of water during my fast. Good thing. Then I start drinking flavored sparkling water with stevia ("healthy soda") Then I start drinking herbal tea w/ stevia. Then I start drinking Green Tea, and I notice the box compares its low levels of caffeine to coffee.

Then, about 2 weeks ago, I have a black coffee with stevia. It's like I put the needle right into my arm. My eyes roll backward in my head with perverse pleasure. I say, O.K. a cup a day is cool. Now, I consider that I eat clean and honor my life by not putting crap in the "vehicle" of my soul. So, I'm wondering. Is this cool or un-cool ? I stop for 1 week. Yeah, I'm good. I can control this. I can have as little or as much as I want. Right.

Well, yesterday and today I had like 3 cups each day. As I said, I'm an addict. One definition of addiction is, an increasingly greater dose is required to achieve the same effect. I love this stuff. It makes IF MUCH easier for me. I'd like to have about 6-8 cups a day.

I love pizza, cookies, cake, ice cream, candy, etc. But it is easy for me to say "No Thanks" when its offered and not have any. I very rarely eat grains, and I'm convinced I'm a carb-addict, which is why LC/Paleo works for me. As much as I love and used to crave pasta, bagels, etc., etc., etc., I'm not drawn to them anymore.

However...I really do want coffee !

I'm not sure where to go with this.

Any suggestions as to resources on the pros/cons of coffee.

( My wife thinks that not eating all day and drinking coffee is rough on the adrenals.)

I do have more "up" energy all day and have been getting tired later.

I've gotta work this out.

I need a sponsor. :)


Thanks for coming to tonight's meeting."

Troy Archie
07-18-2007, 07:12 PM
http://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/coffee_health_risk.htm

http://www.coffeeandhealth.ca/

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/15/health/nutrition/15coff.html?ex=1313294400&en=d420f19ee1c77365&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

http://www.coffeedetective.com/coffee-benefits.html

Man, don't get me started...I work in a freaking coffee roaster/espresso bar.

I will say this though; if you enjoy your coffee that much, have it and do it with style. Screw the Starbucks/Tim Hortons and Nabob/Maxwell House crap, go and find yourself a local roaster that knows his shit and get the good stuff. Then go and buy a french press and make REAL coffee. You'll thank me later.

Dave Van Skike
07-18-2007, 07:46 PM
http://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/coffee_health_risk.htm

http://www.coffeeandhealth.ca/

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/15/health/nutrition/15coff.html?ex=1313294400&en=d420f19ee1c77365&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

http://www.coffeedetective.com/coffee-benefits.html

Man, don't get me started...I work in a freaking coffee roaster/espresso bar.

I will say this though; if you enjoy your coffee that much, have it and do it with style. Screw the Starbucks/Tim Hortons and Nabob/Maxwell House crap, go and find yourself a local roaster that knows his shit and get the good stuff. Then go and buy a french press and make REAL coffee. You'll thank me later.

Respeck...... French press=coffee...everything else=crap.

Kevin Perry
07-19-2007, 04:59 AM
eh...i love coffee but my problem is drinking that bad coffee i.e. frappuchinos. Especially sucks when you work night shift all the time and develope an addiction to this stuff. And my diet is practically 100% clean untill that frap kicks in. Gotta start cutting it though.

Robb Wolf
07-19-2007, 07:57 AM
Eddie-
If you need a hug Ron can hook you up with that...tell him to keep it "above the belt."


Freaking Hilarious...made my morning.