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Jeff Bearden
07-18-2007, 07:47 AM
Okay, the thought just hit me in reading all the IF posts. Typically IF'ers skip breakfast, lunch, workout afternoon and eat supper as a PWO meal. At least that's what I gather. I'm in the military and typically workout in the morning REAL early. So, what if breakfast is the PWO meal, eat lunch and skip supper? That would still give me a considerable fasting period, then working out in a fasted state the next morning, and might solve my hunger problems because it's right after PT in the mornings that I get really hungry.

How does that sound? Any thoughts?

Allen Yeh
07-18-2007, 08:08 AM
As far as I have gathered there is no reason why people eat at night other than convenience due to scheduling since that is when most people are home by. As long as you keep some sort of fasting period between feeding periods the time you feed is less important.

I actually still eat breakfast, lunch and dinner as I'm on a 15 hour fast schedule with a 9 hour eating window. So typically I start eating 9-10 am and stop by 6-7pm that way I eat dinner with my family.

I like the 15 and 9 type myself though I've stretched it as far as 19 and 5. You can take a look at my IF log for my results.

Allen Yeh
07-18-2007, 08:09 AM
BTW when I first saw "Backwards IF" I thought you were going to have a post on how you want to eat 15 hours and fast 9, heh.

Chris Forbis
07-18-2007, 08:15 AM
I've tried this. Be warned that it can be hard to get to sleep if you are hungry.

William Hunter
07-18-2007, 08:34 AM
I agree with Chris. It's certainly worth a try, as it might work out great for you, but I don't deal well trying to sleep on an empty stomach. A full belly lulls me to sleep. I really like working out near the end of my fast, knowing big food is coming, and my body will know what to do with it. I've done many AM workouts, but generally I'm an afternoon guy.

Leo Soubbotine
07-18-2007, 02:30 PM
ZMA or some Vitamin C and Melatonin make me sleep like a child with a very very empty stomach.

Mike ODonnell
07-18-2007, 03:47 PM
I've done backwards IF before....that is staying awake for 18 hours and eating and drinking nonstop....then pass out for 5 hours and wake up and start again....

Robb Wolf
07-19-2007, 08:43 AM
MOD-
That is a more popular version...book in process.

Jeff-
I've worked it the way you describe with the only problem being difficulty falling asleep.

Edward Friedman
07-19-2007, 10:43 AM
Jeff,

I think my reply is really unsatisfying. IMHO, you would need to try it out and see how you feel and how it works out for you. I think that within some loosely defined IF framework, a lot of detail is heavily individual.

In the Fast-5 version of IF ( "IF 19/5" ) I think Dr. Herring makes the eating window 5-10 p.m. for 2 reasons:

1) More social eating takes place during those hours;
2) Sleep blunts waking hunger. In other words, if most people ate early, the hunger in the remaining hours of waking day is too annoying.

I think "playing" with "window-timing" is a very cool part of this self-discovery process, ( ie; How one interacts with eating/fasting.)

"Do not go where the path may lead, instead go where there is no path and leave a trail." (Ralph Waldo Emerson) Part of what I enjoy about IF is really customizing and knowing "what works great for me". Have fun finding what works best for you. Please report your results.

All the best,

Eddie

Jeff Bearden
07-19-2007, 01:03 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. I can imagine that falling asleep hungry would be difficult. So, I guess what I'm concerned about is the fact that I have to train in the AM from 0530 hrs to 0630 hrs because of the whole Army thing and if I IF during the day would it be too long to wait until 5 pm or later to break fast? Or, should I have lunch and supper and cut off evening feeding earlier than 10 pm?

Mike ODonnell
07-19-2007, 02:00 PM
eating window 5-10 p.m. for 2 reasons:

1) More social eating takes place during those hours;
2) Sleep blunts waking hunger. In other words, if most people ate early, the hunger in the remaining hours of waking day is too annoying.

Precisely why I do my eating 2-7 or 3-8 or 5-10....to have a life and still be able to live longer...

Edward Friedman
07-20-2007, 04:17 AM
Thanks for all the input guys. I can imagine that falling asleep hungry would be difficult. So, I guess what I'm concerned about is the fact that I have to train in the AM from 0530 hrs to 0630 hrs because of the whole Army thing and if I IF during the day would it be too long to wait until 5 pm or later to break fast? Or, should I have lunch and supper and cut off evening feeding earlier than 10 pm?

Hi Jeff,

I don't think anyone can "answer" your question, except YOU !

Again, IMHO, you have to try to see what makes YOU feel best and most closely approximate the overall YOU seek. YOU may find that training early, eating late is no problem, whereas it would crush someone else. YOU may find that eating early, fasting late, ("falling asleep hungry",) is easy and comfortable, whereas someone else could simply not deal with it, etc.

As I see it, this is REAL self-experimentation !

Dr. Herring (Fast-5) has written stuff like, (paraphrasing,) "try it the way you think you want to do it, and have a snack handy in case you are simply too uncomfortable." I like that sort of thinking.

While I think the exchange of ideas and personal experience here and elsewhere (eg; Fast-5 forum, [IF] Yahoo Fasting Forum,) are great to help folks formulate their approach, nothing ultimately matters until YOU test how it works for YOU. Even this will vary. Some days I breeze my fast until 7 p.m., no problem. I've had days where I felt I simply had to eat at 4 p.m., and I did.

Another, IMO, important factor, is learning to be comfortable with discomfort. Not masochism, or eating disorder levels of "discomfort", just "wow, I'd like to eat now, and my window is in __________hours. O.K. I'll have a cup of tea and focus my attention on ______________." Voila ! The hunger evaporates or at least becomes VERY manageable, and the time passes while you got other good stuff done. You're IFing now Baby !

Hopefully, if one finds this is a good WOE, they will be doing it for decades. Time spent tweaking the individual application, even if that takes weeks or months, even if there are days that don't "work" as well as others, is time very well spent.

Jeff Bearden
07-20-2007, 05:21 AM
Thanks Edward. Very well put. I will experiment a little but I am such a creature of habit, I guess that's why I'm looking for a cut and dry answer but I do understand that intermittent should truly be intermittent.

Yvana van den Hork
07-21-2007, 09:19 AM
Just skip lunch and fast for 10-12 hrs, like what I did until recently when I added more fruits back in (but no protein & fats). This works reasonably well. Though I'm only doing this every other day and eat 5 meals on workout days (again every other day).
Problem solved: you sleep well because you've had a pre-bed time meal and you've also fed yourself right after (or before) working out.