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John Vernon
11-01-2006, 08:55 AM
Since beginning my journey through hell as I now know it (aka, my current job) I have managed to misplace my lordotic arch. At first I thought I left in the break room of the office but alas, it was not there.

I've got a pretty good idea of how to find it again, LOTS of hamstring stretches, OH squats, etc. Any other movements I should pay particular attention to that will hasten the return of my lordotic arch? I really miss it.

Allen Yeh
11-01-2006, 11:17 AM
Glute activation exercises, hip flexor stretching, rectus femoris stretching.

Scotty Hagnas
11-01-2006, 12:25 PM
Allen-

What glute activation exercises do you use?

Scott Hagnas
CrossFit Portland

Eva Claire Synkowski
11-01-2006, 05:20 PM
hows your posture while seated at work?

i dont know how quickly good posture will lead you to your lordotic arch, but sitting all hunched over a keyboard defintely wont help the battle!

Steve Shafley
11-01-2006, 06:10 PM
I use two:

x-band walks (basically look a jumpstretch band between your feet, cross it in an "x" and walk sideways.

And glute bridging with my weight belt around my knees pushing out.

Allen Yeh
11-02-2006, 02:45 AM
I use supine bridging - with my shoulders on a swiss ball and what Steve mentioned x-band walks.

Ken Urakawa
11-02-2006, 12:44 PM
Single leg squatting (even if you need to use a ball or bench as a safety) does some fun stuff to the glutes.

I went to a lecture a few years ago dealing with the shoulder and it's various injuries, etc. One of the guys there worked with MLB pitchers, etc. Anyway, short version is that isometric contractions are very effective in increasing activation of muscles, and then once there was effective activation, normal ROM exercises worked well.

Allen Yeh
11-03-2006, 03:01 AM
I use supine bridging - with my shoulders on a swiss ball and what Steve mentioned x-band walks.

Here is a video of X-band walks it's the last exercise in the article.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-124-training

John Vernon
11-03-2006, 07:50 AM
Thanks for all your input, I appreciate it. I've always had above average flexibility in my hamstrings but my quads/rectus femoris (femori?-plural) have always been extremely tight. My old ART/DC told me I had the tightest quads he'd ever worked on. This also impact my IT band but that's something I've been dealing with for some time now.

Allen, thanks for the vid. I'm not sure I want to know what an "ass expert" is all about but I'll give those X-band walks a go.

Yael Grauer
12-01-2006, 09:39 AM
Does anybody know what to do for the opposite problem? My friend who does massage told me that I have an overpronounced lordotic arch. I think he said that this is why my hips are so tight and my lower back is tight leading to upper back and neck pain, but I was having trouble memorizing the five zillion new stretches he gave me. Apparently every single part of my body needs tons of work (and hearing that really helps me concentrate on holding myself in the utmost positive regard and put my attention on all of the ways that I am perfect and already doing everything just right, in order to follow a thread of positivity that will continue to deepen my excellence). :) Anyway, since I think this arch thing is the root of all the problems, I thought I'd tackle that one first (that and trying to relax my neck...) Any suggestions? Also, are foam rollers the best alternative to getting chiropracty, massage, etc. etc. every single week forever?

Chris Lowndes
12-04-2006, 03:52 AM
[QUOTE=Yael Grauer;1353]Does anybody know what to do for the opposite problem? My friend who does massage told me that I have an overpronounced lordotic arch. I think he said that this is why my hips are so tight and my lower back is tight leading to upper back and neck pain,QUOTE]

Hello Yael,

Maybe if you look at this another way, you have a pronounced lordotic arch because you have tight muscles?

There are other methods to allow them to release other than stretching and invoking the stretch reflex. Whether it be through methods such as positional release or somatic methods. If you need any info let me know.

Regards

Chris:)

Allen Yeh
12-04-2006, 06:21 AM
Does anybody know what to do for the opposite problem? My friend who does massage told me that I have an overpronounced lordotic arch. I think he said that this is why my hips are so tight and my lower back is tight leading to upper back and neck pain, but I was having trouble memorizing the five zillion new stretches he gave me. Apparently every single part of my body needs tons of work (and hearing that really helps me concentrate on holding myself in the utmost positive regard and put my attention on all of the ways that I am perfect and already doing everything just right, in order to follow a thread of positivity that will continue to deepen my excellence). :) Anyway, since I think this arch thing is the root of all the problems, I thought I'd tackle that one first (that and trying to relax my neck...) Any suggestions? Also, are foam rollers the best alternative to getting chiropracty, massage, etc. etc. every single week forever?


Yael,

Mike Robertson and Eric Cressey have a series of articles over at T-nation titled "Neanderthal No More" parts I - V and it addresses the different types of common posture problems and their solutions for them. It is pretty lengthy but I think well worth the read.

I love my foam roller and tennis ball for soft tissue work, how that compares to professional I have no idea but even if you were getting regular massage I would see SMR as a great add on to that.

Greg Everett
12-04-2006, 07:12 AM
hairdresser back! it may be from uber tight iliopsoas and/or weak/inactive glutes. stretch the front, sqeeze the back. stand profile in a mirror and do whatever it takes to reduce that arch and pay attention to what you're activating. then work on consciously doing whatever that is all the time. soon enough it will happen unconsciously.

Mike ODonnell
12-04-2006, 07:41 AM
Assuming your upper body (shoulder alignment to ears) is ok, then your lordosis is caused most likely by (what people have already said) tight hip flexors, tight lower back, weak glutes. Try putting your feet up on a ball/chair while lying on the floor...that should help stretch out the lower back.

I'd have to go through his material again...but I believe Chek would say it also is caused by weak lower abdominal strength and lack of TVA activation.

Yael Grauer
12-04-2006, 08:34 AM
Chris, yeah I'd be interested in learning more about the methods you mentioned. I read a book about somatic therapy back in college and found it very interesting. I'll look for the neanderthal articles! What is SMR? Greg when you say stretch the front, sqeeze the back, what exactly am I stretching/squeezing? Also some of this might be because my posture at work isn't the best. We have these high high counters and swivel chairs, and I usually move my chair all the way down because I hate it when my feet cant' touch the ground, and then I have to raise my head to see our customers. I wonder what my back's doing when I do this, will have to pay attention.My favorite new stretch is hanging my head down off my bed and stretching my neck that way....better than scalp massage... And no high heels for me!

Thanks everyone!

Allen Yeh
12-04-2006, 08:44 AM
smr = Self myofascial release aka foam roller, tennis ball...etc

Greg Everett
12-04-2006, 01:18 PM
stretching front - stretching iliopsoas and rectus femoris. lunge + back lean (without allowing hyperlordosis)

sqeeze back - contract the glutes.

Robb Wolf
12-04-2006, 03:51 PM
As per Kelly Starrett's instructions we have people do a lunge stretch with the rear foot elevated on a 20" box. This becomes amazingly intense and has been coined "The Death Stretch". Enjoy!

Mike ODonnell
12-04-2006, 06:01 PM
Robb have her add a heavy 1 arm-DB hold overhead to make it Death Stretch part II.

Yael Grauer
12-04-2006, 07:16 PM
What's with all the death and dying today?

Greg Everett
12-05-2006, 07:10 AM
circle of life yael. the sooner you accept it, the sooner you will be set free.

Yael Grauer
12-05-2006, 07:18 AM
Oh yeah, I think I heard that in a yoga class once. :p

Robb Wolf
12-06-2006, 11:30 AM
Robb have her add a heavy 1 arm-DB hold overhead to make it Death Stretch part II.


Oh! That is nice! Thanks Mike! I think we will call that Mike's Death Stretch!

Robb Wolf
12-06-2006, 11:32 AM
Oh yeah, I think I heard that in a yoga class once. :p

No, I think that was a hippy breaking wind from too many high-protein beans..

Yael Grauer
12-06-2006, 11:43 AM
No, I think that was a hippy breaking wind from too many high-protein beans..

And here I thought it was the dharma.

James Hall
12-06-2006, 07:35 PM
Since when is this so terrible? "I have swayback...and??" A lordotic arch is normal and if you look at the current exercises, what is said? Keep a neutral posture and/or a lordotic arch to do the exercise correctly. The only time it's not normal is if you are an overhead painter or sheetrocker, then you need more lumbar flexion.

Just my $0.02.

James

Greg Everett
12-06-2006, 07:42 PM
Since when is this so terrible? "I have swayback...and??" A lordotic arch is normal and if you look at the current exercises, what is said? Keep a neutral posture and/or a lordotic arch to do the exercise correctly. The only time it's not normal is if you are an overhead painter or sheetrocker, then you need more lumbar flexion.


since we recognized said lordosis as excessive... the lordotic arch is normal and optimal. but once outside that normal amount of curvature, in either direction, it's no longer optimal and can cause serious and permanent problems from the uneven pressure placed on the vertebrae and disks in this position under loading.

Yael Grauer
12-07-2006, 11:37 AM
Wow, y'all are good. I went to my chiro (so much for trying to wean myself off of these health care professionals :rolleyes:) and he said it was indeed an ubertight iliopsoas (and QL) causing minor anterior pelvic tilt and lordosis. All the stretches he gave me were ones mentioned here except this McKenzie protocol thing, knees to chest (2 sets of 20). More potassium and water, red meat only 2 times a week, and no caffeine (including chocolate) for a whole month until my muscles settle down. :(

Coach Rutherford
12-07-2006, 11:38 AM
As per Kelly Starrett's instructions we have people do a lunge stretch with the rear foot elevated on a 20" box. This becomes amazingly intense and has been coined "The Death Stretch". Enjoy!

This 'bulgarian split' is an amazing stretch. We do this with the difficult kids too.

I think it was Texas A&M in the 80's who did a bunch of split squats as part of their strength program. It was said that you got off the bus in College Station doing this movement.

Ron Nelson
12-07-2006, 12:35 PM
stretching front - stretching iliopsoas and rectus femoris. lunge + back lean (without allowing hyperlordosis)

sqeeze back - contract the glutes.

At first, I thought you said "contact the glutes" which gives the stretch a whole new meaning.

Lunge stretches, IT band stretches, dynamic stretching (butt kickers, high knee pull backs, cradle stretches), toy soldier kicks, walking Spider-Man's, etc. all saved my workout life. I got them all from the Magnificent Mobility DVD and from contacting Eric Cressey. He's very helpful and responds to e-mails quickly. I used these to get through back pain, achillies tendonosis, and golfer's elbow. Quite the panacea.

Oh, prone bridges and birddogs for the glute activation.
Good stuff.

Allen Yeh
12-08-2006, 04:44 AM
At first, I thought you said "contact the glutes" which gives the stretch a whole new meaning.

Lunge stretches, IT band stretches, dynamic stretching (butt kickers, high knee pull backs, cradle stretches), toy soldier kicks, walking Spider-Man's, etc. all saved my workout life. I got them all from the Magnificent Mobility DVD and from contacting Eric Cressey. He's very helpful and responds to e-mails quickly. I used these to get through back pain, achillies tendonosis, and golfer's elbow. Quite the panacea.

Oh, prone bridges and birddogs for the glute activation.
Good stuff.


Hey Ron since you have the MM DVD mind giving me a review on it in my MM thread?

Ron Nelson
12-08-2006, 11:14 AM
Glad to.

Allen Yeh
03-28-2007, 07:42 AM
For those interested, an article on Anterior and Posterior Pelvic tilt by Mike Robertson

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1508256

As I reread the thread it seems there are people that fit both categories. Good suggestions on how to incorporate ways to fix the either malady at the end of the article.

Robb Wolf
03-28-2007, 04:22 PM
Great Article.

Brian Sullivan
03-28-2007, 07:51 PM
There are lots of good posture articles on T-nation. Check our all of the stuff by Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson.

Here is an excellent 4 part series on posture from Eric Cressey on T-nation:

Neanderthal No More part 1 (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459379)
Neanderthal No More part 2 (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459206)
Neanderthal No More Part 3 (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=462481)
Neanderthal No More part 4 (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=472224)
And to awaken your glutes:
Get Your Butt In Gear! (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=495189)

So good I printed them out. The exercises covered in these are very close to what's in the Magnificent Mobility DVD, also by Eric Cressey.

Yael - Overarching might be caused by anterior pelvic tilt, which is caused by very tight quads, inactive glutes, and weak interior obliques, all of which I am currently suffering from. Rx for me was/is quad stretches, glute activation exercises, super painful deep massage of my IT band, and an exercise for my interior obliques. Try the "Supine Leg Lowering Test" described in part 2 to see if this is part of the problem. Your neck problem might due to the pelvic tilt - because your hips are tilted, you upper spine needs to compenstate to balance this out. Foam rollers are good, but I use my knuckles and baby lotion to really work into my IT band.

John - An exercise to get your spinal erectors firing: lie on your stomach, arms at a 45 degree angle from you hips then lift your chest 6 inches to a foot. Let your feet rise, but you're trying to lift your chest. Keep a neutral head position, with you chin slightly tucked.

I got these from my chiro/osteo guy, who seems to be pretty good.

Yael Grauer
03-28-2007, 07:55 PM
My glutes were actually sore the other day, I was so happy.

Allen Yeh
03-29-2007, 03:32 AM
There are lots of good posture articles on T-nation. Check our all of the stuff by Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson.



One thing to note is if you see something conflicting with what they present both authors have stated they would stick by their most current information rather than what was previously presented.

"If the book is more than two years old, there's a good chance even the author no longer agrees with all the information in it. Read often, but read analytically." - Mike Boyle

Robb Wolf
03-29-2007, 08:07 AM
My glutes were actually sore the other day, I was so happy.

Was that a consequence of the B-day spanking?

Brian-

Great first post!

Ron Nelson
03-29-2007, 02:54 PM
Mike Robertson's latest article regarding force couples is definitely worth a look. He goes into detail on how to diagnose an anterior/posterior tilt in the pelvis and resulting flexion/lordosis.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1508256

Robertson is fast becoming one of the best authors on that site and an authority on posture issues.

Sorry, no smart ass comment in this post.

-Ross Hunt
04-07-2007, 06:37 PM
So what if you have anterior pelvic tilt but you don't lack hip flexibility or have weak glutes?

I definitely have slight anterior pelvic tilt (belt line points down), but my hip flexibility is good; I can jerk-grip overhead squat without oly shoes. If split squat: back squat ratio is an indicator of glute strength, than my glute strength is just fine.

So, does anterior pelvic tilt matter if it looks like your glute strength and hip flexibility are OK, and your back doesn't hurt?

Steve Shafley
04-07-2007, 09:24 PM
A birthday something, I hope.

Allen Yeh
04-08-2007, 08:51 AM
So what if you have anterior pelvic tilt but you don't lack hip flexibility or have weak glutes?

I definitely have slight anterior pelvic tilt (belt line points down), but my hip flexibility is good; I can jerk-grip overhead squat without oly shoes. If split squat: back squat ratio is an indicator of glute strength, than my glute strength is just fine.

So, does anterior pelvic tilt matter if it looks like your glute strength and hip flexibility are OK, and your back doesn't hurt?

Do you think your hip flexors are tight/shortened?

I think there is a difference between having strong glutes and activating your glutes when needed? So this would go up to the first thing I asked about tight/shortened hip flexors.

I'd just take a look at the article that Ron posted and look at a few things they listed under anterior pelvic tilt.

-Ross Hunt
04-08-2007, 05:57 PM
Allen,

Thanks. I already read the article, and I just took another look at it. I pass the stand-against-the-wall-and-raise-your-knee test w/ flying colors.

I can't quite get my straight leg elevated in front of me to parallel to the ground without leaning back; my quads just freak out, probably because I've haven't done any L-sits or isometric flexibility work in ages. I can swing my leg to my chest without much knee bend when I do a leg swing for a dynamic hamstring stretch, though.

If the exercises listed in the article are a sign of what you need to be strong at to activate your glutes, my glutes must be firing; my front lunge passed my back squat last Thursday.

Allen Yeh
04-08-2007, 06:29 PM
Ross,

I recently read the Core Performance: Endurance book and found a few tidbits that might interest you. I personally thought I was pretty good with the glute activation thing also because I had used the exercises...etc. But I still didn't do as well on the self evaluation as I thought I should have.

"Lie on your back, legs straight and locked out. While holding this book so you can read it, create a straight line from your ear to your ankle. Now bridge up, keeping the legs straight and lifting the hips off the ground as high as possible...Your shoulders and heels are the only two points in contact with the ground.

Do your feel the tension in your lower back and hamstrings or are you feeling it in your glutes? Stay up now. Don't drop your hips....Now take both hands and poke yourself in the glutes. See if they are both rock hard or if one is firm and the other is flabby. Perhaps they are both flabby, the result of not firing (squeezing). Now relax..."

On the other hand if I hate to say the old "if it doesn't hurt then don't worry about it." Though it could very well be true. I know Alwyn Cosgrove said something to the effect of "training injuries surface in programs months or years down the road.." very loosely paraphrased, but I think you know what he meant.

I guess the thing is to keep an eye on it especially if you work at a desk job or anything that requires you to do a lot of sitting i.e. driving.




Geez your front lunge must be beastly! I couldn't imagine doing that much weight I'd crumple.

-Ross Hunt
04-09-2007, 08:50 AM
Allen,

That ratio says more about my back squat than about my front lunge. Also, I have long legs.

I'll try the glute bridge. I haven't bridged in a while.