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Nikki Young
08-12-2007, 06:37 PM
Yo!
I have a new client who takes raniticline for high stomach acidity.
I was wondering if anyone knows if this drug is something which could be faded out through a diet rich in alkaline foods and lower in acidic foods?

I would like to let her know that an altered diet could potentially stop her from needing the drugs, i presume if she doesn't make changes to her diet the acidity in her stomach would keep on building up. Just wanted to get a second opinion on it all though in-case there are other medical situations to the problem which would need to be taken into consideration.

Mike ODonnell
08-12-2007, 07:39 PM
I assume it's for Acid Reflux? I had a client start taking Apple Cider Vinegar before meals...and she got rid of her Acid Reflux. In the "natural healing" world they will tell you that acid reflux is not actually too much acid in a diet, but a lack of enough acid....so basically you have undigested meats/proteins sitting in your stomach with the fumes coming up through the esophagus giving the acid reflux...and that adding more acidic enzymes to digest the foods will cure it. Also I am sure having more alkaline foods will do the trick as well.

All I know is I have seen the ACV work first hand along with a diet switch towards more alkaline (vegetables) and less acidic (dairy, grains)......holy cow, almost sounds.....Paleo....wow. ;)

You can ask people when they have the most issues...and they might say something like it is when they eat say for instance a turkey sandwich w/ a coke....meats, cheese, breads, soda....all acidic balance. Here's just one of many charts on it
http://www.essense-of-life.com/info/foodchart.htm

As with anything...help her to take actions while working with her doctor on it, to see if her symptoms reduce and ....who knows, maybe if the doctor can learn something as well he might be able to pass along the knowledge to other patients without jumping right to meds.

Chris Lampe
08-13-2007, 07:15 AM
Mike,

How much apple cider vinegar are we talking here? Does she just drink it out of a spoon?

I take two medications for GERD and I still have problems with acid reflux. Unfortunately, one of the foods that sets it off the worst is grass-fed beef. I'm willing to try various OTC remedies and this is the second time I've seen apple cider vinegar mentioned.

Chris Forbis
08-13-2007, 07:50 AM
1 tbsp of ACV in 8 oz. water. Do not try to take the stuff straight. You have been warned.

Chris Lampe
08-13-2007, 08:02 AM
1 tbsp of ACV in 8 oz. water. Do not try to take the stuff straight. You have been warned.

Thanks Chris! I had to ask because I couldn't imagine taking any kind of vinegar straight (although a friend from China says her dad drinks vinegar).

Mike ODonnell
08-13-2007, 08:15 AM
1 tbsp of ACV in 8 oz. water. Do not try to take the stuff straight. You have been warned.

I would even go as far as 12+ oz of water as if they have GERD then chances are they are extra sensitive to the ACV....some people also try 1 tsp to start...and work their way up to 1 tbsp...everyone is different so as long as they start slow and don't start drinking the bottle straight like Frank the tank...they should see some improvements.

And of course...it's only "Raw Unfiltered with the Mother" ACV....no other kind....Braggs is a good brand

Robb Wolf
08-13-2007, 02:51 PM
Nikki...you are looking at someone with metabolic derangement. GERD is a symptom of hyperinsulinism. This person is eating too many carbs, too much refined carbs and I'd bet Greg's testicles, this person is celiac also. Give this a looksie:
1: J Gastroenterol. (javascript:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'J Gastroenterol.');) 2007 Apr;42(4):267-74. Epub 2007 Apr 26.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corehtml/query/egifs/http:--production.springer.de-OnlineResources-Logos-springerlink.gif (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3055&itool=AbstractPlus-def&uid=17464454&db=pubmed&url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s00535-007-2033-0) Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu17464454);)
Metabolic syndrome and gastrointestinal diseases.

Watanabe S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Watanabe%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Hojo M (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Hojo%20M%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Nagahara A (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Nagahara%20A%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus).
Department of Gastroenterology, Juntendo University, School of Medicine, 2-1-1 Hongo, Tokyo 113-8421, Japan.
Metabolic syndrome is a cluster of metabolic abnormalities consisting essentially of obesity, especially abdominal obesity. Metabolic syndrome has been highlighted as a risk factor for cardiovascular and other chronic diseases. Obesity has been implicated in various gastrointestinal diseases such as gastroesophageal reflux diseases and colorectal cancer. Recently, abdominal obesity has been shown to be more important than obesity as expressed by an elevated body mass index as a causative factor for the development of these diseases. In addition to the mechanical effects of obesity, such as an increase in intra-abdominal pressure from large amounts of adipose tissue, substances that adipose tissues secrete, such as tumor necrosis factor-alpha, interleukin-6, leptin, and insulin-like growth factor-1, have been proposed to be pathogenic links to these diseases. In this review, we discuss the association of metabolic syndrome or the individual components of metabolic syndrome, focusing on obesity and abdominal obesity, with gastrointestinal diseases.
PMID: 17464454 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
This is where treating symptoms gets VERY tricky and leads to supression of the issue instead of addressing the underlying causes. It seems simple:
too much acid, so consume or alkaline items. This leads ultimately to things like Tums (popular antacid in the us...not sure if you have it down under) and sodium bicarb. These are both massively alkaline...and will only make things worse. Put out the stomach acid (fire) and you get large intact food particles crashing into the small intestine...this is where more potent food allergies take root.

I swear...any issue a client has look for metabolic derangement FIRST.

Jordan Glasser
08-13-2007, 03:32 PM
Thanks Chris! I had to ask because I couldn't imagine taking any kind of vinegar straight (although a friend from China says her dad drinks vinegar).

I drink it straight daily. I have grown to like it, and feel like I am missing something when I don't get my daily swig of ACV!

Mike ODonnell
08-13-2007, 03:54 PM
I drink it straight daily. I have grown to like it, and feel like I am missing something when I don't get my daily swig of ACV!

Only caution I can say is you do not want to burn the lining of your esophagus with repeated exposure...that could be bad...hence the dilution...

Jordan Glasser
08-13-2007, 04:16 PM
Only caution I can say is you do not want to burn the lining of your esophagus with repeated exposure...that could be bad...hence the dilution...

I've been warned! Dilution it is.

Nikki Young
08-13-2007, 04:38 PM
Thanks guys.

Mike, if she does try and see if taking 1tsp of ACV before every meal helps, would the initial phase be with or without the medication she has been prescribed? Did you find with your client, that it took a few days/weeks before she noticed any changes, if so, how long until someone should start to expect feeling changes in this area after adding ACV?

Mike ODonnell
08-13-2007, 06:21 PM
Thanks guys.

Mike, if she does try and see if taking 1tsp of ACV before every meal helps, would the initial phase be with or without the medication she has been prescribed? Did you find with your client, that it took a few days/weeks before she noticed any changes, if so, how long until someone should start to expect feeling changes in this area after adding ACV?

She noticed a difference only when she was trying the acv and off the meds....cause that's when you know if it works. It was pretty immediate with her...and she noticed the return of GERD when she slacked off on taking the acv. Of course like Robb said diet is key. They need to get off grains (highly acidic) and eat more alkaline. Especially if you consider the average meal is meat, cheese, and 2 slices of bread....acidic..acidic..and whoola...acidic....no wonder people have heartburn.

Nikki Young
08-16-2007, 06:19 PM
Awesome Mike, thanks!
If you don't mind me asking.. what was the cycle your client took AVC for and then back onto meds? Was it a progression from a couple of days ACV, couple days meds, up to one week AVC one week meds, etc?

Mike ODonnell
08-16-2007, 07:34 PM
The cycle was....I told her to take it...she did for a while...got off the meds....the figured problem solved and stop taking acv....then got back on the meds again because of bad gerd....then I kicked her in the ass again and told her "duh"....so pretty much that kind of cycle...not too mention my struggle to get her eating more vegetables and less grains.....