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John Seiler
08-28-2007, 03:51 PM
I turned 40 earlier this month. It was pretty horrifying. Exactly at noon I gained 5% bodyfat and suddenly felt very tired. Shortly after I experienced a slight limp. It got me to thinking about my programming.

I'm currently working out as follows:

Monday: Squats and Presses
Tuesday: CF
Wednesday: off
Thursday: Oly and Deads
Friday: CF
Saturday: Track Day (mix of 50m through 400m.)
Sunday: off

Frankly, I'm beat. Diet's about 80% clean Zone-ish; I get 7-8 hours of sleep; job is fairly stressful. I'm contemplating a little more rest; one day off for each day of work:

Day 1: Squats and Deads
Day 2: Off
Day 3: 3x3 Press, 3x3 Pull; WOD
Day 4: Off
Day 5: Track Day
Day 6: Off
Day 7: 1 Oly movement; WOD
Day 8: Off
Repeat

I'd appreciate any input at all as my mind is starting to go as well.

Chris Forbis
08-28-2007, 04:00 PM
I would be sure to keep those WODs in the 15-20 minute range. Having a rest day after every workout is an idea I am fond of, and I like your split. If your track day is intense enough, you may even want to have the workouts consist of 2 heavy lifting days, 1 CF metcon, and 1 track workout. I find 2 metcons a week (I think Robb has mentioned this as well) can keep you in pretty solid shape for minimal investment.

Steve Shafley
08-28-2007, 06:41 PM
I like that first split. Very practical.

For more rest, move the short WOD stuff to after your lifting:

One extra day a week:

Monday: Squats and Presses/short WOD
Tuesday: off
Wednesday: off
Thursday: Oly and Deads
Friday: CF
Saturday: Track Day (mix of 50m through 400m.)
Sunday: off

Two extra days a week:


Monday: Squats and Presses/short WOD
Tuesday: off
Wednesday: off
Thursday: Oly and Deads/short WOD
Friday: off
Saturday: Track Day (mix of 50m through 400m.)
Sunday: off

Maybe take a look at pre and post- workout nutrition. Might need some recomp after. Might need additonal proteins or fats.

You could have lots of fun with exercise choice too, if you want to go with a triple kind of progression with the movements. Modulate volume accordingly.

Monday: OHS/FS/BS and Press/Push press/push jerk
Tuesday: CF
Wednesday: off
Thursday: snatch/clean/dead
Friday: CF
Saturday: Track Day (mix of 50m through 400m.)
Sunday: off

Allen Yeh
08-29-2007, 04:04 AM
John,

Are you training for anything in particular at this point?

Elliot Royce
08-29-2007, 07:16 AM
I think there's a very wide range of recovery ability as you age, but my O lifting coach, Gary V, likes to say that 1 lifting session per week is better than 4, 2 are better than 3. I've certainly experienced my share of injuries that were caused, in restrospect, by excessive ambition and lack of recovery. You feel like you're progressing up until the point where you have to take 3 steps back.

I think if you're already trained (as you seem to be), go hard then rest a couple of days (and more if very sore) makes a lot of sense. It also depends on to what extent you're trying new things. Snatches, which I started recently, have overstrained my shoulder/elbow but I imagine I could have done lots of pulls without problem. It's the acclimatization part that is the most wearing, in my mind.

Also, don't neglect the recovery modalities: massage, stretching, etc.

Robert Allison
08-29-2007, 08:22 AM
Great question, John.

I am pretty much in the same boat (43 in October). A few months ago, I started noticing some minor joint pain and stiffness. Nothing major, but since there is some history of arthritis in my family, I wanted to jump on it right away.

FWIW, here are some of the things have worked for me:


More rest

More "speed" work and less heavy lifting

Joint mobility work constantly

Variety--mixing up both my exercise selection and my fitness-related hobbies

Dialing my diet in even tighter

Increased intake of anti-inflammatories--fish oil, turmeric, glucosamine, etc.

Also, as Elliot mentioned, recovery--contrast showers, ZMA, massage, etc.

John Seiler
08-29-2007, 09:32 AM
John,

Are you training for anything in particular at this point?

LOL! Yes, I suppose mentioning that would be helpful. Sorry.

I'm really just training for general, inclusive fitness and health. I don't play any competitive sports. As you can probably gather from the present program, I leaned more toward the strength and speed side than the metcon. I'm looking to balance that out a little.

I've been lifting for almost 20 years and started met-con work (CrossFit) and Oly lifting about 20 months ago. I just added the sprint work in recently to increase power and conditioning with what I feel is one of the most basic human movement patterns (frankly, I'm ashamed I got away from it.)

I guess what I'm primarily thinking of is how to best balance my work and rest. Of course I'd still like to improve my fitness and still feel able to do so. I just think it will take smarter programming.

BTW, thanks to all who've replied so far!

Robert McBee
08-29-2007, 02:46 PM
Just turned 40 myself.
Foam Roller pre/post training has been great. Good, consistent sleep and dialed in diet do the best for my recovery. Nothing magical there.
I've been trying to follow all the reqs. in "Protein Power LP" so supps like E,C,ALA, fish oil(I take 4-6 tbsp. daily), CoQ10, ZMA, and natural sunshine.

Allen Yeh
08-30-2007, 06:30 AM
LOL! Yes, I suppose mentioning that would be helpful. Sorry.

I'm really just training for general, inclusive fitness and health. I don't play any competitive sports. As you can probably gather from the present program, I leaned more toward the strength and speed side than the metcon. I'm looking to balance that out a little.

I've been lifting for almost 20 years and started met-con work (CrossFit) and Oly lifting about 20 months ago. I just added the sprint work in recently to increase power and conditioning with what I feel is one of the most basic human movement patterns (frankly, I'm ashamed I got away from it.)

I guess what I'm primarily thinking of is how to best balance my work and rest. Of course I'd still like to improve my fitness and still feel able to do so. I just think it will take smarter programming.

BTW, thanks to all who've replied so far!

I think what Shaf suggested seems like a good starting point. I'm not in the 40+ club yet but I wanted to see what you were training for at this point. Let us know what you decide and how you end up tweaking it.

John Seiler
08-30-2007, 11:22 AM
Good stuff, Steve. I'm already doing some of the progressions and really like it. You're right that it's really easy to carried away with the volume, though.

Any reason you prefer adding the WODs on top of the strength work? It does make it easier when things are on a 7 day split. You always know where you are and what's coming. My only concern with adding too much stuff in one day is carrying my workouts past an hour. I try to avoid that from a cortisol perspective as I've always been a 'hardgainer'.

Robb Wolf
08-31-2007, 06:14 AM
Great thread. Keeping an eye on intensity/volume is sooo important. This type of programming start looking like Devany's stuff in a way.

Steve Shafley
09-04-2007, 07:03 PM
If you keep both short, then what do you think is going to have a bigger impact on overall cortisol levels?

As long as you have high peaks and low valleys, i.e. a bigger contrast, it shouldn't be an issue. High activity followed by rest and general laziness is probably going to result in a less negative impact than two days of moderate activity.

I'm not sure that's what you need to really be worrying about wrt hormonal activities.

I can really get a good strength workout in with 2 exercises. Even if I go moderate volume with that, then it's still done quickly, taking on some kind of hard and fast metcon is like icing on the cake.

Mike ODonnell
09-04-2007, 11:28 PM
Are there any studies to compare GH and cortisol levels on a more strength based routine vs metcon higher intensity? As I grow....ehhh emmm...older....I lean more toward just strength training....I get plenty of metcon with ice hockey and mountain biking....but if I try to throw in more sprints or other metcon, I get wipped and don't recover....but if I stay strength I feel great and then feel so much more energetic during sporting events. I'm guessing it has to do with increased GH release and more recovery times. Just from a health and longevity perspective....plus I know fat loss is all eating, so keeping lean is just fine tuning the diet. (which I did NOT do over the long weekend....and funny how much my joints and old injuries hurt more after a week of going nuts....back to getting it on track...but damn that ice cream cookie sunday was good.....and so wasnt the carb coma it put me in 2 hours later!!)

Steve Shafley
09-05-2007, 05:44 AM
Mike: I'd like you to do an experiment for me.

Get yourself 10 ampules of a testosterone blend, like the infamous Sustenon 250 you can generally find in most underground steroid markets, or even a 10 mL vial of legit testosterone enanthate or cyprionate at 200 mg/mL, and inject either 1 amp or the blend or 1 mL of the straight ester weekly for 10 weeks.

Then come back and tell me how you feel.

10 weeks isn't going to damage your HPTA, and the dosage is just a bit higher than replacement.

I really suspect androgen deficiencies and aromatization is a bigger issue than GH, though GH deficiencies are certainly going to impact recovery.

This is a slippery path. I warn you in advance.

Steve Shafley
09-06-2007, 06:42 AM
On that note, this thread is apparently dead.

Don't fear the needle, O'Donnell. Everyone is doing it!

Mike ODonnell
09-06-2007, 07:00 AM
On that note, this thread is apparently dead.

Don't fear the needle, O'Donnell. Everyone is doing it!

Technically I'm not even over 40....so I am just trespassing in this thread. My T levels are probably not where they need to be.....but I am not looking to really get that much more muscle and I perform well at my given sports of choice....so I am happy for now.

Allen Yeh
09-06-2007, 07:05 AM
I really suspect androgen deficiencies and aromatization is a bigger issue than GH, though GH deficiencies are certainly going to impact recovery.



What would you suggest (that is perfectly legal) in this arena? T-boosting supps? Estrogen supressing supps? Lifestyle changes?

Steve Shafley
09-06-2007, 08:21 AM
I think for the most, lifestyle changes and dabbling in non-scheduled anti-aromatases might be the first thing to try.

The stuff like tribulus, etc, always makes me hornier than normal, but I don't know if that cooresponds with a higher T level or not.

Mike ODonnell
09-06-2007, 09:09 AM
Estrogen supressing supps?

Just reminds me of Ori's latest marketing spin.....all anti-estrogenic. Which I believe he said cut out all plastics (which is a good idea) esp drinking water containers and stay away from pork and bacon.

That might be the 20% genious amoungst his 80% insanity.

As for lifestyle I just know that is out of whack for me right now....so I guess time to sit down, clear the head, know what I need to do right and take it into action. Never did like the whole Beer suppressed T levels thing.....totally goes against the Irish Longevity idea....all in moderation I guess.

John Seiler
09-06-2007, 04:07 PM
On that note, this thread is apparently dead.

Not yet, Steve. I decided to try the 8-day, one on/one off split. I'll report back.

Allen Yeh
09-07-2007, 05:24 AM
Never did like the whole Beer suppressed T levels thing.....totally goes against the Irish Longevity idea....all in moderation I guess.

http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1559

Allen Yeh
09-07-2007, 05:55 AM
I think for the most, lifestyle changes and dabbling in non-scheduled anti-aromatases might be the first thing to try.

The stuff like tribulus, etc, always makes me hornier than normal, but I don't know if that cooresponds with a higher T level or not.

What anti-aromatases do you think are even worth the time/money? I used to be very into reading up on AS's and the such but have been out of it for quite a few years. Are you talking about clomid and all the -dexes? Biotest is saying reservatol is a great anti-estrogen supplement. (I haven't heard much about reservatol other than it is in red wine).

Tried one tribulus product years ago, didn't think it did much but then again I was only 25 at the time. I don't even remember the brand though.

Just reminds me of Ori's latest marketing spin.....all anti-estrogenic. Which I believe he said cut out all plastics (which is a good idea) esp drinking water containers and stay away from pork and bacon.

I've actually moved to glass containers for when I heat up food now after reading a Poliquin thing about plastics a few months ago, I found a stainless steel coffee cup for work, I still love my Nalgene bottles when I'm on the go and at work and haven't broken that habit yet.

Steve Shafley
09-07-2007, 11:42 AM
I don't know. I haven't kept up either, at this point.

I drink coffee out of ceramic most of the time, but I'd like to pick up a stainless steel cup that was as big as my favorite plastic mug.

Ken Rich
09-07-2007, 11:57 AM
I'm a big fan of these bottles despite the hokey name.

http://www.kleankanteen.com/

Ken