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Greg Battaglia
09-10-2007, 08:52 AM
Does anyone know how the levels of arachidonic acid in grass-fed meat compare to those found in grain-fed varieties? How about egg yolks from organic free-range vs. conventional? What's the danger of arachidonic acid anyway? Is the AA profile of omega-3 enriched eggs modified at all? I searched pubmed for some info and mostly got stuff that I couldn't understand, or got abstracts claiming AA to be pro-inflammatory.

Mike ODonnell
09-10-2007, 10:22 AM
Grass Fed = Low AA higher Omega 3s
Grain Fed = High AA especially in fattier cuts of meats (sausage, pork, etc)

Sears had a list in Inflammation Zone or some other book....I believe Pork, eggs and turkey.

AA is in the Omega 6 line....and it's really about the conversion of AA into DGLA and pro inflammatory. This older thread covers it in more detail http://performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233&highlight=inflammation

Greg Davis
09-10-2007, 01:17 PM
I think there is a lot more info on o-6's in general rather than arachidonic acid specifically..

Mike ODonnell
09-10-2007, 01:31 PM
I think there is a lot more info on o-6's in general rather than arachidonic acid specifically..

Greg it's further down...but this is what I was referring to for AA

Per "Inflammation Nation" and "The Inflammation Zone" they peg AA as the main issue in all inflammation. Not only through Omega 6 downcoversions, but also directly through dietary sources. Red Meat is high in it, Turkey was real high in it (of course the fattier the meat, the more AA concentration). Pork, Grain fed Egg Yolks, Corn and Soy were also targeted sources of high dietary AA. If it was "grass fed" meats I believe the levels of AA would be extremely low.

Omega 6s downconvert into AA, primarily with the D5D enzyme to get from DGLA to AA. The D5D enzyme is Activated by Insulin, and Blocked by Glucagon and EPA. So you can limit the amount of DGLA that does get converted into AA, as DGLA is actually of benefit to the body. So control insulin, release glucagon and get EPA (fish oil) to block the conversion of the inflammatory AA messengers.

There are no sources of DGLA directly (that I know of...or they are really rare), but you can get DGLA from GLA (GLA downconverts into DGLA directly) from evening primrose oil. Many Arthritis doctors recommend a combination of GLA and EPA for the full anti-inflammatory affect. I believe the ratio should be somewhere around 4:1 of EPA:GLA (you will see that mix in some EFA oil mixes like Udo's Choice). However....remember if you are not controlling insulin then that GLA will end up being AA and then you have the opposite affect you were looking for. (Dr Sears found that out with his control group).

Grass Fed is supposed to have lower (if any) level veg grains (Soy, corn, etc) so hence the animal can not absorb and convert to AA inside. I've never seen a study to show grain vs grass fed levels of AA in animal meats but that is supposed to be the way it works. Organic may not solve the problem because they may be just getting organic grains to eat. Since the AA stores mostly in the fatty portion of the meat, that's why most doctors say avoid red meat which is usually high in fat (so hence high in AA) and stick with lean cuts. Although if you look at things like "farmed" fish, they are fed grains...so a farmed salmon may have low levels of EPA/DHA and higher levels of AA. As I mentioned above Pork and Turkey were rated the highest levels.

Greg Battaglia
09-10-2007, 03:27 PM
Yeah, I found it, thank you for pointing it out though. Makes sense. I don't know if you guys share this reaction, but any time I eat any fat at all from domestic animals I feel absolutely awful. I get this bloated-feels-like-my-veins-are-going-to-explode feeling and can't breath well. Not fun.

Mike ODonnell
09-10-2007, 03:29 PM
Yeah, I found it, thank you for pointing it out though. Makes sense. I don't know if you guys share this reaction, but any time I eat any fat at all from domestic animals I feel absolutely awful. I get this bloated-feels-like-my-veins-are-going-to-explode feeling and can't breath well. Not fun.

a finely tuned machine no longer wants to run on regular unleaded, unlike some of the other cars falling apart...it wants the good stuff.....that's the downside of getting healthy, can't eat a ton of crap anymore....but I am sure the performance and longevity aspect is worth the effort!

Garrett Smith
09-10-2007, 05:13 PM
Greg,
Many of my patients are feeling significantly better when they don't eat conventional meat, so much so that they are not eating any meat at all.

I think that there is a lot more cloned meat getting out to the population than the media puppets will ever let on...

Max Murphy
11-05-2007, 12:02 PM
If i remember correctly grass fed and grain fed both have the highest concentration of AA in organ meats (livers, hearts, etc...)

Last week after a long workout I broke fast and ate about a pound of chicken liver and whole some eggs during my window. I noticed a major increase in inflammation and DOMS in the groups i worked that day. I might try to lower my consumption of AA from now on. (Not that I usually eat very much, I just had some livers I wanted to get out of the freezer)



In case anyone doesn't know this Molecular Nutrition sells a product called X-factor that is AA in a caps like fish oil. After reading the thread posted above I wonder how safe this stuff is...