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Troy Archie
09-27-2007, 08:03 PM
I'm 26 y/o, sleep an average 8h a night, eat 100% paleo, IF...
I would consider myself an experienced lifter but with only novice strength. If I trained hard, ate well gaining about .75-1lbs/week, what would be considered a reasonable/realistic amount of strength I could gain per month? 5-10-15lbs on the squat, DL, bench, press...?

Steven Low
09-28-2007, 01:02 AM
Depends what kind of program.

I put on 35 lbs on my weighted pullups in a month (from 55 to 90 lbs of extra weight), and that's not even a *major* compound exercise (like DL or squat or oly lifts). Conceivably with the full body movements like squats and deadlifts you should be able to exceed 50 lbs in a month if you had a very good workout program especially if you're at novice strength levels.

Leo Soubbotine
09-28-2007, 05:33 AM
What Steven said: Very doable.

Troy Archie
09-28-2007, 07:11 AM
Depends what kind of program.


Say a starting strength 5x5 style program...

Mark Gebhard
09-28-2007, 08:30 AM
What are your current lifts at? And, are you willing to sacrifice things like metcon?

Troy Archie
09-28-2007, 09:42 AM
I haven't done a metcon in months. I ditched it all for hopes of strength via oly lifting but after 4 months, 5kg bw gain and only 5kg on the squat and negligible increases in other lifts I'm wondering if I'm just spinning my wheels or if I'm expecting too high a gain. Albiet I've always wanted to be strong, I've never gone after it and just it; I've always compromised it by jogging or doing metcons so I really don't know what would be considered resonable and realistic strength gain over a specific length of time. 5kg on my squat over 4 months seems paltry to me; I've made better gains on my squat with Crossfit...

Right now I'm thinking that because of the huge skill component to Oly-lifting, that I'm not going to see much strength gains until that skill level is there...

BW 77kg/170lbs
5'-10 1/2"/180cm

Squat: 115kg/253.5lbs
Front Squat: 105kg/230lbs
Bench: 77.5kg/170lbs
Jerk: 72.5kg/160lbs
Behind the Neck Press: 45kg/100lbs
Deadlifting (way back in may): 150kg/335lbs
Snatch: 40kg - 45kg on a good day
Clean: 65kg - I did 70kg once...

John Alston
09-28-2007, 10:10 AM
Experienced lifter with novice strength you say? That doesn't compute.

Yes, OLY is high skill but the strength comes.
It comes because you need to squat, pull and press all the effing time. At 26, if you're injury free, you should be able to squat 3x a week. You can squat after your skill work. Same with the presses and pulls.
You just can't beat taking weight from the ground overhead as a builder. C&J ain't called the king of exercises for nothin'.

My two oly biased cents.

Troy Archie
09-28-2007, 10:21 AM
Experienced lifter with novice strength you say? That doesn't compute.


Well I say that on the basis of years lifting versus strength. I see it as because I've been lifting for years my body has had some adaptation. Whereas someone with less time experience but equal strength as I would make faster gains.
Is there some truth in that or am I out to lunch?

I'm also curious about snatch/clean assistant exercises. At what level should these be added in?
Is it; clean and snatch and fill in the weaknesses and movements via the assistant exercies
Or in reverse:
Learn the clean/snatch via the assistant exercies and put it all together in the complete form?

As a side note, here's my template I've been lifting on for the last 4 months.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/week1-3/1339288510/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/week1-3/1339293400/

Steven Low
09-28-2007, 04:33 PM
You do have at least an intermediate strength base it looks like.

If you did 3x4, 4x3, or even 2x5 for 5 days a week I'm pretty sure you can put on significant poundages onto your squat. You'd probably have to sacrifice DL to one day a week, but oly lifting can be done 3-5x a week one a schedule like that with a decent level of conditioning. Add in some bench/dips/overhead press/pullups/rows 2-3x a week each and you're golden. (P.S. that's only about 4-5 or so exercises per day which is doable).

Yuen Sohn
09-28-2007, 06:07 PM
I'm also curious about snatch/clean assistant exercises. At what level should these be added in?
Is it; clean and snatch and fill in the weaknesses and movements via the assistant exercies
Or in reverse:
Learn the clean/snatch via the assistant exercies and put it all together in the complete form?


From my experience, both (but it may vary with other people). It depends on what assistance exercises you are referring to.

For the snatch, my coach started me off with a lot of the partial movements:
First, an RDL-type movement, but keeping everything above the knees. Then we progressed to that RDL movement coupled with a power snatch/squat snatch from the hang (think "Jump!!!"). Then snatches from just below the knees. Then later on the full lift from the floor. From time-to-time, maybe about after a couple months of completely flopping on the platform, he started prescribing assistance exercises (pulls, shrugs, etc)...but unlike before, these were more for strengthening rather than reenforcing proper positions I think. I should also mention that he had me doing squats, back extensions, abs and pullups from day one (well, at least I was supposed to be doing all those, haha)

You're starting Oly lifting a lot stronger than I started (I think my max front squat was like 135 pounds and my backsquat was nonexistent). And currently, your squat #s are pretty close to mine. Like John said, the snatch and the cleans coupled with squatting will really improve your strength. If your primary goal is increasing your snatch, clean, and jerk numbers, keep in mind that the squats should be viewed as an assistance exercise. If your squat #s are very disproportionate to your clean/snatch #s, then you may want to think about shifting the focus of your training to more repetitions with the actual lifts and assistance exercises to address areas where you might be deficient (e.g., bar trajectory, early arm bend, lack of extension/explosiveness).

Just my 2 cents. I'm actually quite interested in what others may think.

btw, yeah, you may get frustrated often (I certainly did and still do), but that one good lift you hit has a way of making up for all those past misses!

Daniel Myers
09-28-2007, 09:24 PM
The one thing that jumps out at me is the ratio of your front squat to back squat: it's about 90%. Looking at the log you posted, you're using basically the same weights for both those lifts. If I'm not mistaken, your back squat should be higher.

Squats == Strength.

Make good gains on your back squats and you'll see gains in every other lift. I don't do Olympic lifting, so I'll defer to the guys that know, but I think that would help you more than assistance for the snatch and clean.

Troy Archie
10-01-2007, 07:38 PM
Thanks for the input and advise all. Yeah my back to front squat ratio is way out of whack; don't know what that's about...I have a thicker waist so I assume core/trunk strength might have something to do about that?

With my current template, I'm thinking that it's too all over the place; i.e too many exercises and that perhaps I'd see better progress with something extremely basic like Starting Strength. My coach mentioned he might change my template around next cycle and I hope he does, I'm starting to hate going to the gym.


If you did 3x4, 4x3, or even 2x5 for 5 days a week I'm pretty sure you can put on significant poundages onto your squat.

5-days a week? Am I reading that right?

Steven Low
10-01-2007, 10:38 PM
Of cours you're reading it right. :)

Ever wonder how those oly lifters train 5-6 days a week sometimes twice a day? There's only so much you can do with c&j and snatches and variations of those where you're probably doing something with your legs and arms almost everyday of the week..