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Jane Michel
10-20-2007, 04:27 AM
Robb I just noticed that you have WODs on your page now, most (or all) involving heavy lifts + metcon on the same day. Thank you!! -now I don't have to crack my head cherrypicking WODs.

How do you decide what metcon work goes with the lifts? And do you plan for the three-day schedule in advance, like at one shot? Or do you go day by day?

Derek Simonds
10-20-2007, 03:03 PM
Just FYI Catalyst Athletics is Greg's company and he is the one posting the WOD's. No taking anything away from all things Robb though :D

How Greg comes up with the metcon to go with the WOD's is a great question but they have seemed very complimentary with the movements that day, the day before and the day after. He definitely is looking at it from 10,000 feet.

Jane Michel
10-20-2007, 03:18 PM
Oops sorry got mixed up there. How do you do it Greg?

Greg Everett
10-20-2007, 03:41 PM
Oops sorry got mixed up there. How do you do it Greg?

Tea leaves and chicken entrails.

Greg Everett
10-20-2007, 03:47 PM
But seriously. In short, I plan 16 wk cycles knowing specifically what I want to accomplish in total, in each 4 weeks and in each week within each 4-wk cycle. I write the workouts for each week at a time so can make sure the CF training and strength/oly training are complementary when possible or minimally disruptive when not. Next week is the last week of the first 4-wk cycle of the 16wk cycle, so there will be a fairly dramatic shift for the next mesocycle.

Derek Simonds
10-21-2007, 05:56 AM
Next week is the last week of the first 4-wk cycle of the 16wk cycle, so there will be a fairly dramatic shift for the next mesocycle.

Uh Oh Richard!

Jane Michel
10-21-2007, 07:03 AM
Greg, thanks for explaining that. Is there any place we can see what the 16-week goal is, and which 4-week cycle in that 16-week goal we are in, and what the purpose of the 4-week cycle is?

I don't mean to make any comparisons: I like knowing what we're training for, and find descriptions like those on Gym Jones' schedule helpful (see http://www.gymjones.com/schedule.php)

Jonathan Owen
10-22-2007, 10:08 PM
I am interested to hear this as well!

Kevin Perry
10-23-2007, 11:32 AM
Hmm makes me want to look closely at what you got comming up Greg

Robb Wolf
10-25-2007, 05:11 PM
Too much planning for me but thanks none the less! I'm just following the CAWOD!

Greg Everett
11-03-2007, 07:04 PM
For those who haven't seen in, I tried to explain the WOD programming in greater detail in this month's PM. Article here:

www.cathletics.com/daily/article-CAWOD.pdf

Allen Yeh
11-05-2007, 07:40 AM
For those who haven't seen in, I tried to explain the WOD programming in greater detail in this month's PM. Article here:

www.cathletics.com/daily/article-CAWOD.pdf

Good stuff,

For those that are only able to hit the WOD's M-F, how would you adjust it? I tried just running it straight through doing the Friday workout on Thursday and Saturday on Friday but this left me feeling like crapola. Any other suggestions?

Greg Everett
11-05-2007, 08:26 AM
For those that are only able to hit the WOD's M-F, how would you adjust it? I tried just running it straight through doing the Friday workout on Thursday and Saturday on Friday but this left me feeling like crapola. Any other suggestions?

I'd drop the Friday workout and replace it with Saturday's. See how that works for you.

Allen Yeh
11-05-2007, 08:34 AM
Will do. Thanks.

Jane Michel
11-05-2007, 04:34 PM
Thanks Supreme PM Forum Ruler Sir! That explains your WOD cycles very well!!

Garrett Smith
11-06-2007, 05:38 AM
On today's Muscle Snatch + Snatch Balance, does the 1 + 2 x 3 mean

one muscle snatch plus two snatch balances
done for three sets

Or is it something else?

Allen Yeh
11-06-2007, 07:50 AM
On today's Muscle Snatch + Snatch Balance, does the 1 + 2 x 3 mean

one muscle snatch plus two snatch balances
done for three sets



Yes

Garrett Smith
11-07-2007, 07:28 AM
Two things:

I love the CA WOD, did my first one this morning. Derek Simonds was visiting here from out of town and we did the workout this morning. Awesome. Thank you Greg, the metcon was absolutely perfect (I modified a tiny bit). I'm definitely going to start a workout journal here at the PMenu. Between a mostly gymnastics warmup, the OL workout, and the short-but-so-sweet metcon finisher, I finally have something I'll be happy with for a long time.

This workout, along with the company, really lit a fire under my butt to get the group classes started at the gym (soon to be CF Tucson). Thanks Derek!

Gant Grimes
11-13-2007, 12:12 PM
Just got on board today, starting with the October workouts. My recent CrossFit activities have left me light and weak.

Greg, since I'm a month behind (I wanted to start in the strength phase), do you still want me to post results on the WOD blog? I didn't know if you were tracking the data or not.

Looking forward to it.

Greg Everett
11-13-2007, 12:21 PM
Greg, since I'm a month behind (I wanted to start in the strength phase), do you still want me to post results on the WOD blog? I didn't know if you were tracking the data or not.

Sure - post whatever you're up to. Good luck and welcome aboard!

Leo Soubbotine
11-14-2007, 12:04 PM
Greg - are you going to include any of the "girls" wod's at all?
Elizabeth, Diane, Fran etc?

Greg Everett
11-14-2007, 12:05 PM
Probably not. But maybe.

Joe Hart
11-16-2007, 12:21 PM
Greg,

For the Metcon workouts...Are they specific to the WOD/day they are assigned or can I use one from another day? Just curious because of equipment constraints. I really like what you have going here.

Thanks

Joe

Greg Everett
11-16-2007, 12:25 PM
For the Metcon workouts...Are they specific to the WOD/day they are assigned or can I use one from another day?

They're relatively specific, but the occasional switching shouldn't be too damaging. Basically Wednesdays are the gnarliest and Fridays the easiest. As long as you scale any switched workouts accordingly, you shouldn't have any considerable problems.

Gant Grimes
11-29-2007, 12:11 PM
Next week will be my last week of the first strength cycle. I'm a noob with crappy technique, so my numbers are going up almost every workout by virtue of figuring out how to lift.

So far I've handled the volume (thanks to recovery days), but it's rough on the shoulders and elbows. I read that joint pain can be a problem with beginning lifters in the Bulgarian cycle, and I'm already coming close to that (I'll have to sub BS for FS half the time until my knees adjust).

My question, for Greg and those who are on the second cycle, is this: should I press on and go with the Bulgarian cycle or repeat the first strength cycle? I'm more interested in getting stronger in the lifts, not just lifting heavier weights (if that makes sense). Thanks.

Garrett Smith
11-29-2007, 01:02 PM
I was getting a bit of right elbow discomfort in the Bulgarian cycle as well--I attributed it to doing a lot more OL and my gymnastics stuff more consistently.

A little cold laser, joint mobility, and the new cycle has the discomfort gone completely.

Derek Simonds
11-30-2007, 07:47 AM
Gant, the Bulgarian cycle was difficult for me and I am definitely a beginner for the o/lifts. Unless Greg recommends otherwise I would do it. It is amazing what some ice, active recovery, massage and any other therapies (i.e. cold laser) you can use will help you through.

There is something to be said for difficult as it builds some nice intestinal fortitude.

Derek Simonds
11-30-2007, 09:22 AM
Greg we do have a mandatory unloading week coming up at the end of this cycle correct?

Allen Yeh
11-30-2007, 01:13 PM
Greg we do have a mandatory unloading week coming up at the end of this cycle correct?

End of the next Bulgarian Cycle according to the thing he wrote up.

Gant Grimes
12-03-2007, 09:16 AM
Thanks to those who answered. I'll press on as previously planned.

I think some of my shoulder problems were cause when I lowered a behind-the-neck rack jerk and missed (ouch). I didn't jerk Friday, and my shoulders felt better Saturday. I also narrowed my grip on the cleans, so my elbows aren't stressed as much in the rack position.

My numbers will still suck, but I'm looking forward to the meet this weekend.

Joe Hart
12-03-2007, 01:59 PM
If I were toss in some gymnastic skills where would the best place be for them? Before the CA WOD as part of the warm up or at the end?

Greg Everett
12-03-2007, 02:01 PM
If I were toss in some gymnastic skills where would the best place be for them? Before the CA WOD as part of the warm up or at the end?

If they're more skill-oriented and have less of a strength component, do them before. If they're the opposite, do them after.

Scotty Hagnas
12-04-2007, 01:16 PM
I tend to do mine separately. I have greatly dropped the volume of work on them during the CA WOD, just enough to maintain.

Garrett Smith
12-04-2007, 04:29 PM
I have two different gymnastics-type workouts a week that I try to fit in, a "holds" and a "moves". I try to do them away from the CA WOD as far as is practical/possible. Sometimes I have to fit them in with the CA WOD, I find that like when I used to do "ab" exercises, if I don't do them early in the workout, I don't do them at all.

Weird thing is, I'm more likely to do them when I separate them from the CA WOD than when I leave them to the end. I don't know why that is.

Rob Johns
01-02-2008, 01:42 AM
I'm in a similar boat to several of the people in these posts. I am taking couple months off of CF (after 1.5 years) to focus more on improving my oly lifts. After reading your workout cycling philosophy, I wonder if it is useful to just join in the middle of this cycle or if I should wait until the next one begins. Any thoughts on that?

Also, could someone explain the purpose of the "oly complexes". Are they a sort of metcon or is it more for developing oly lift coordination? I've read several excellent articles on this site, but haven't found an answer to that yet.

Derek Simonds
01-02-2008, 08:51 AM
My understanding is the O/Lift complexes, unless they are in the metcon portion of the WOD, are there as assistance exercises. Some of them when performed with a heavy weight will provide a metcon kick but they are prescribed to help us pattern the movements more efficiently.

Greg Everett
01-02-2008, 09:24 AM
The complexes are not intended to be metCon, although if you're fat like me, they will get you breathing pretty hard. They're purely technical work.

Rob Johns
01-02-2008, 06:53 PM
We're not fat Greg, we're "husky"...

What about starting in the middle of this cycle. Just man up and jump right in?

Allen Yeh
01-07-2008, 07:19 AM
What are some suggestions to reconciling the CA WOD with running 5-10 miles per week? I have no choice but to get my mileage up right now prior to shipping out to officer basic.

I can currently only Oly M-F, so I was thinking of placing my running days between Saturday to Wednesday so I have a few days rest prior to my heavier attempts on Friday?

Derek Simonds
01-07-2008, 09:40 AM
Good question Allen.

I am going to add some (some meaning as little as possible) running in place of 1 metcon per week. Obviously I don't have to build up to 10 miles but that was how I was going to handle it.

Dan Foster
01-08-2008, 09:58 AM
could somebody benefit from doing the CA WOD with limited weight equipment. Say a pair of KB instead of an olympic weight set.

Allen Yeh
01-08-2008, 10:23 AM
In regards to running, since I missed so much of this last Bulgarian cycle I've decided to just do Oly 3x a week using the past WOD's as a guide and when the next cycle starts back up after the 1 week of rest I'll start that.

Allen Yeh
01-08-2008, 10:25 AM
could somebody benefit from doing the CA WOD with limited weight equipment. Say a pair of KB instead of an olympic weight set.

I would say no.


The CA WOD is intended for individuals wishing to improve functional strength and poweróor improve their Olympic lifts for any reasonówithout compromising general fitness too greatly.

Out of curiousity, why would you want to try to CA WODwith KB's?

Dan Foster
01-08-2008, 10:49 AM
right now thats all I have access to. On the weekends I would have access to an oly set. Just wanted to know if i could still do the CA WOD untill I got the equipment i needed.

Allen Yeh
01-08-2008, 12:01 PM
If you only have access to an Oly set on the weekend I'd just say opt for strength stuff/metcon stuff during the week. Then have 2 solid days for Oly on the weekend.

Dan Foster
01-08-2008, 12:37 PM
Allen what would a sample week look like to you following that protocall.

Garrett Smith
01-08-2008, 12:41 PM
Dan,
Cherry-picking various CrossFit workouts during the week (that are all BW exercises and/or are easily made KB-friendly, like Helen or a KB Fran) and doing various CA WODs on the weekends would sound workable in your situation.

Greg Everett
01-08-2008, 12:56 PM
Dan -

Unless you have some big-ass KBs, it's not going to work too well as RXed. There's no way to duplicate the strength work really - if you stick with the RXed sets/reps, it's unlikley you'll have enough weight in KBs; if you up the reps to make it "hard", you'll be producing a totally different training effect. I would say keep training as you are now, and add a snatch, CJ, pull, press, and squat workout on the weekends.

Dan Foster
01-08-2008, 12:57 PM
Thanks Garrett would you still follow the 3 on 1 off that CF uses

Garrett Smith
01-08-2008, 03:39 PM
No, I've never followed the 3 on, 1 off schedule. It just doesn't work in my schedule. Besides, if I only had two days a week with access to OL equipment, there's no way you'd find me taking one of those as a rest day!

Greg's suggestion is basically what I'm going to get at. My simple suggestions for working with what I suggested includes ME and metcon workouts during the weekdays, with one or two weekdays off (I'd suggest you take the Friday off before the OL work, at least). Then do an OL-focused workout on both Saturday and Sunday. You might try doing something along the lines of Mike's Gym WOD on the weekends, as that is all OL. If you do the CA WOD, leave out the metcon unless you really dig that stuff and are recovering well.

Basically, CF + rest during the weekdays, weekends are all OL.

Allen Yeh
01-09-2008, 02:48 AM
Allen what would a sample week look like to you following that protocall.

Depends on your goals right now? What is your experience with Oly, do you have access to an Oly coach?

Dan Foster
01-09-2008, 07:20 AM
there is actually a coach one town over from were I live. I spoke to him a while back about coming there to train. he said he was familar with crossfit too.

Casey Stein
01-28-2008, 08:37 AM
This question may already have been answered and I missed it, but how do we tell when another cycle is about to begin? Or at least how do we tell at what point the current cycle is? I read the article and it talks about the fact that it follows Bulgarian mesocycles (I may not be saying that correctly), but it doesn't say how to tell at what point in the cycle we are.

Thanks.

Greg Everett
01-28-2008, 09:00 AM
Casey -

A new cycle began today. They're 4 wks long. Usually I'll make a note when a new one begins, but I didn't this week.

Derek Simonds
01-28-2008, 09:01 AM
Today is the first day of the 4 week strength cycle (I believe). Greg usually will mention what week we are in throughout the posts. It alternates 4 weeks strength, 4 weeks Bulgarian, 4 weeks strength, 4 weeks Bulgarian and 1 week recovery. Rinse, Repeat.

Kevin Perry
01-28-2008, 11:02 AM
On today's WOD where the BS is 78%, is that 78% of your 1RM?

Derek Simonds
01-28-2008, 11:12 AM
I believe that is correct.

Greg Everett
01-28-2008, 01:17 PM
Yes - %s are always of 1RM unless otherwise noted (which would be extremely rare)

Chris Bate
01-30-2008, 05:31 AM
My wrestling season is drawing to a close and I'm starting to plan my offseason work. I thought I might do Starting Strength for a couple months, but then I saw the CA WOD... Would it be appropriate for someone not too familiar with OLs to follow the CA WOD, especially if he doesn't have a large strength base? I'm 134 lb and my squat is about 200, deadlift 235, press 125, give or take 10 lbs. (My strength has fluctuated over the season.)

Thanks.

Derek Simonds
01-31-2008, 07:57 AM
My wrestling season is drawing to a close and I'm starting to plan my offseason work. I thought I might do Starting Strength for a couple months, but then I saw the CA WOD... Would it be appropriate for someone not too familiar with OLs to follow the CA WOD, especially if he doesn't have a large strength base? I'm 134 lb and my squat is about 200, deadlift 235, press 125, give or take 10 lbs. (My strength has fluctuated over the season.)

Thanks.

I saw your post yesterday and was waiting on Greg to respond, since he hasn't I wanted to make sure to get back to you. When I started my strength and technique base were both very low. The most difficult part is getting adequate coaching on the mechanics of the lifts so that you don't pattern bad movements. I started with the CA WOD's when they began and was fortunate enough to be able to get to one of Greg's seminars within a month.

There I learned all the things I was doing wrong and how to fix them.

I definitely recommend Olympic lifting to anyone in wrestling or grappling. The explosive strength translates to so many of the moves we use. Last night in BJJ one of the instructors said that pound for pound I was one of the strongest guys at the academy. I think that in regards to strength I am on the weaker side but I have that explosive hip based power I can use on the mat.

So if you can and you feel comfortable you should give it a go. You can always post video and we will help with distance coaching as best as possible.

Chris Bate
01-31-2008, 04:45 PM
Derek,

Thanks for the encouragement, I'm leaning now towards giving it a go. I'm impressed with the athleticism demonstrated Olympic lifters; it seems a little more worthwhile to pursue than a straight strength program.

A few more questions :D .
1) Should I start at the beginning of a cycle or just jump in?
2) For your BJJ, were you just doing the CA WOD? and how long were you doing it before you started to feel the extra strength?

Thanks a ton!

Derek Simonds
02-01-2008, 06:42 AM
As they say come on in the water is fine. We just started the first week of a strength cycle. There is 3 more weeks of strength before we go to a Bulgarian cycle.

I really noticed the difference after doing the mass gain plan.

Kevin Perry
02-05-2008, 12:44 PM
I'll be jumping onto the CA WOD today for the first time, last weeks been hectic. In today's WOD though, when the exercise is reading a Clean deadlift, is this just a basic dead or is this some foreign deadlift I have never heard of before?

Derek Simonds
02-05-2008, 02:03 PM
Pretty sure it is just referencing the grip width. Clean grip versus snatch grip which we do both of.

Craig Snyder
02-05-2008, 03:23 PM
I have a change of subject question regarding misses during workouts. Should they be avoided at all costs, or are they just a part or the learning/training process?

I have noticed as I start to get fatigued toward the end of the workout, I miss some snatches/press out some jerks. Should I rest more, use lighter weights, or just psych myself up more for the lift and push through it?

Craig

Derek Simonds
02-05-2008, 04:00 PM
Misses are a part of Olympic lifting.

If we are in a cycle where we are lifting close to max then you have to be aware of why you missed the lift. I am sure Greg will chime in, but if you are missing the lift because you are too fatigued to get it then you need to stop on that lift. If you missed it because of mind slip or a technical detail and you feel comfortable go at it again. When I first began I would miss lifts throughout the workout without it being due to fatigue. I just wasn't that good technically.

Often time Greg will specify that we are to go for a max single and if we miss a weight 3 or 4 times to move on to the next lift.

Hope this helps.

Greg Everett
02-05-2008, 04:06 PM
Clean DL is just a DL with a clean grip.

RE missing, what Derek said is right on. If the day's training is a lighter technical session, you should not be missing reps due to fatigue. We're aimin to use weights in this situation that prevent that.

When you're attempting max or near max weights, misses are inevitable, but as Derek said, learn to recognize the cause. If it's fatigue, teh chances of making the lift on subsequent attempts is minimal and after 3-4 attempts, you're wasting your time. If a miss was a technical error you believe you can correct, keep lifting. This latter case will often meaning missing a given weight and actually moving up to the next weight anyway. That kind of judgement will come with experience.

Craig Snyder
02-05-2008, 04:53 PM
Thanks for the fast replys. That helps a lot. I think I am not resting enough between reps/sets somtimes and I am getting fatgued toward the end of the lifts. I know many of my misses are technical as I am inexperienced, but today they were definitely fatigue related (also due to inexperience).

I will put that to practice starting tomorrow.

Craig

Jane Michel
02-25-2008, 06:30 AM
Did the function to look at Tomorrow's WOD disappear? I can't seem to find it now?

Allen Yeh
02-25-2008, 06:41 AM
Did the function to look at Tomorrow's WOD disappear? I can't seem to find it now?

The Tomorrow function only appears if Greg has already posted the workout for tomorrow.

Jane Michel
02-26-2008, 12:58 AM
Oh ok thanks for explaining that Allen