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Nick Tirkalas
10-29-2007, 12:19 PM
Here's the deal,

I was on the standard 15 block 40-30-30 Zone and it felt good. Hardly any cheats. In fact I can't remember my last cheat. One's due that's for sure.

I'm 5'8" 140lbs right now with about 129LBM. I still have residual stomach fat, no where near lean and cut....no six pack.

I was reading some of Robb Wolf's threads and as per PMJ #17, he says one strategy is to cut the carb blocks in half and add the 3 blocks in fat for every carb block. This should be the same calories. I checked it and it is. I started this on Sat and I was fine all weekend with this...now....

I'm feeling sluggish, some headaches, not up to working out today. Hungry all the time. Should I add a little more fat. I still need to lose the fat and then on the Mass Gain program as per #17 for a max 10 lbm gain, but not until I am down in BF. It might just be today

Any suggestion's would be great.
Thanks

Robert McBee
10-29-2007, 03:14 PM
Increase the fat some more. You might not be feeling great because your system is wondering where the easy fuel carbs went and hasn't adusted to burning fat as well. Stick with it. I"ve read similar reaction from several posts and went thru the same. The first week is rough but you'll feel better than ever after a few days.

Steve Liberati
10-29-2007, 03:59 PM
Sounds like your in the transition phase like Robert mentioned. You'll get through it, just stick it out. It gets much easier as you go on.

Mark Joseph Limbaga
10-30-2007, 01:00 AM
Another option would be this:

drop your protein ratio since some people tend to get fat when their protein is a bit high.

and yes, definitely increase fat blocks.

ON another angle, perhaps the fact you have no cheat meal could also mean you are already fatiguing and may near a plateau anytime soon.

I had a friend who couldn't totally lean out when he was eating clean all the time. When he did lean out and drop the weight, he became way too thin and looked like POW. Now that he's eating normal again, he looks much better.

Allen Yeh
10-30-2007, 04:20 AM
The comments that Rob and Mark made are on point.

If you have been eating very clean for a while i.e. more than a week. Leptin can be depressed, having a cheat meal(s) can help it "bounce" back.

Everyone nowadays is used to using carbs as an energy source. It takes a few weeks to get fat adapted, and in the beginning you won't feel great.

Nick Tirkalas
10-30-2007, 05:48 AM
Thanks guys. I'm going to give it a few more weeks and see how it goes. This Friday is a unavoidable cheat day with an all day work function, fully catered with alot of bad stuff. Including many free Heineken's.

Mark Joseph Limbaga
10-30-2007, 06:49 AM
Nick,

knock yourself out in the function :)

Just remember that the secret is everything in moderation

Mike ODonnell
10-30-2007, 10:08 AM
If you can not drop the fat around the middle....may want to just forget the zone and eat paleo. Carb up on the weekends. Zone has too many insulin spikes all day long with constant carbs...and if your fat issue is linked to insulin sensitivity then you will not help it with spikes all day. Take some fish oil too..it has shown to help lean out the "hard to get off" places.

Nick Tirkalas
10-30-2007, 11:12 AM
Mike,

I think I am currently doing the Zone Paleo. As Robb said in previous posts, he uses the zone as a guide. (Not a direct quote). I am using it to get my calories in check, not necessarily what it recommends to eat. I have dropped 25lbs since Jan, but they have been streaky drops. 5lbs in one week, then holding pattern, then 7 lbs, then a couple of months with nothing. It goes like this. It might be gradual and I just don't notice it.
I don't eat any starches what-so-ever. I am cutting back on the fruit...2 a day and sticking to veg sources for my carbs. I'm not too familiar with the Paleo exactly, just what I probably should not be eating. I'm curious, would this make the difference. And I definitely have to go get some CLO. Tonight to Costco.

Thanks everyone for their input.

Mike ODonnell
10-30-2007, 12:15 PM
I have dropped 25lbs since Jan, but they have been streaky drops. 5lbs in one week, then holding pattern, then 7 lbs, then a couple of months with nothing.

I'd monitor the fat loss weekly....notice trends. Funny thing is...if you go low cal too long...you plateau...but then you cheat on a weekend....and in the next week your metabolism goes back up and the fat loss continues....perhaps that is the case there with the sporadic weight loss? Only way to know is to track it.

Nick Tirkalas
10-31-2007, 08:36 AM
Thanks Mike. I will track, although I'm trying not to be too obsessed about weight. I have in the past. I thought a 1 or 2 day a week IF might not hurt either. See how that goes.

Steve Liberati
10-31-2007, 09:16 AM
Nick-
Just curious, what kind of workout regimen are you following?

Nick Tirkalas
10-31-2007, 09:21 AM
Steve,

I do CF on my own. Once I hit my desired leanness, I need to add at least 10 lbs lbm ( I emphasize need because at 5'8" and 130lbm, i need it ) Currently I am 143lbs.

This is going to be done with the mass gain program as per PM #17 by Robb and Greg.

Nick Tirkalas
10-31-2007, 09:29 AM
Steve,
I just checked out your site. Looks like you're doing some good stuff with the kids. Keep it up. Thos 400m walking lunges are brutal!:eek:

Steve Liberati
10-31-2007, 10:53 AM
Thanks Nick...yeah those walking lunges are a real _ITCH!

Overall, with the nutrition advice of Robb & company...and doing CrossFit regularly...it sounds like you are definately on the track.

Bar none, I think the most valuable piece of advice you can take to help you lean out and change your body composition is simply, "Stay the course."

Sounds so basic and "No shit Steve, I already know that," but these three words are so often overlooked and often so quickly forgotten. I've noticied this trend over the years visiting various nutrition message boards on the web. Happened to myself several times.

The problem is there is sooooo much information and sooo many knowledgeable folks dispensing good nutrition information for free that what happens is if somone doesn't see results in a month or two, they quickly dinch the plan for something better.

Just remember, it takes years and years of hard work to alter your body fat (lose excess bodyfat and build solid muscle) and achieve that "damn Nick's fit as a Roman gladiator" look. Based on this simple thread alone, it sounds like you have a solid plan in your arsenal and neccessary tools to get where you want to be.

Can't say enough...but don't get too caught up into mastering the tactics....

...just stick to a plan, stay the course and changes will happen (in time)!

Nick Tirkalas
10-31-2007, 12:10 PM
Thanks Steve,

I'll just keep humming along with my new Fish oil in hand.