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Nick Tirkalas
11-18-2007, 06:13 PM
This weekend I had my LBM checked on a Tanita scale. I know not that accurate but withing a few pounds perhaps. It came in at 123lbs and almost 11% BF. My goals was to get pretty lean than go mass but if I go any more, I will not look that healthy. So starting tomorrow, I am switching to gain.

Here are the stats.

5'8"
139 lbs
11% BF
123lbm.

14 Blocks x 5 fat for maintenance. = 1872.5 calories. - seems low.
+ 2 extra blocks to gain for week 1. = 2027.5 calories.

I am doing the PM mass gain program so we'll see how it goes.

A few question's for those that know. The program says L-Pull up 60& 6x6. Is that supposed to be %. A little confused.

Also, on the strength cycle, it says snatch pull/RDL. Do we chose or do these both, or are they considered the same thing. I don't think they are.

Thoughts.

I'll update this weekly hopefully with more mass and a healthier look.:cool:

Jesse Woody
11-21-2007, 06:33 PM
That's supposed to be a "%" Greg was probably too busy gulping down olive oil to catch the editing mistake. ;)

I'm assuming that the Snatch Pull/RDL is a combo movement where you do a snatch high-pull from the floor, then lower to hang position and do a RDL, but I may be wrong. Anybody else know for sure?

Yael Grauer
11-21-2007, 07:15 PM
That's supposed to be a "%" Greg was probably too busy gulping down olive oil to catch the editing mistake. ;)

He should let me do his proofreading for him. :D

Nick Tirkalas
11-22-2007, 12:00 PM
I downloaded the Mass Gain template and it clarified the & to % so that's good. Still trying to figure out the snatch pull/RDL.

I'm learning some things only been on it a week. All nutritional. I am doing IF. Going for a last feeding time before 6-7 pm and breaking the fast after 11. Feels good. Around that time I start to feel the weakness. Little to no hunger pangs. I am eating Zone Paleo. My block make up is 16P, 7C and a whopping 99F. I cut the carbs in half like Robb mentioned in PM17. I am trying not to go above 70g for carbs in a day. The fat eating feels good and feel no sluggishness. I think I have a big insulin sensitivity which is why I am keeping the carbs low.

I am experimenting with the macro make up during the feed time. I go for 3 feed times. Today(rest day) I am going for all carbs before 3 pm. I had no fat in my first feeding and I felt like crap. Hungry within a few hours. I eat no fat in my PWO meal, which is always at night as I work out after work. We'll see how it goes. Abs are slowly disappearing but still there.:(

Patrick Donnelly
11-22-2007, 07:03 PM
There's some debate on the worth of a high-GI, no fat PWO meal. On the one hand, you've got the insulin spike, which helps build muscle; on the other hand (regular low-GI, high fat), you keep your GH levels spiked, which also helps.

Steven Low
11-22-2007, 08:12 PM
Nick:

I'm 5'8" at 135 lbs.. more or less probably about 5% BF. You are "skinny" like I am, but it's not really unhealthy to be at this weight and height (although I am eating 2500 cals to just maintain, lol). :D Anyway, GL.

I'm pretty sure the snatch pull/RDL is a combo like Jesse said.

Also, I would try eating more than 3 meals a day. It will speed up your metabolism, but it is easier to get down massive amounts of food easier with more meals.

Kevin Perry
11-23-2007, 02:34 AM
Thank god I'm short and bulky instead of tall and skinny. LOL I'm just kidding, good luck on your gain.

Nick Tirkalas
11-23-2007, 09:05 AM
Also, I would try eating more than 3 meals a day. It will speed up your metabolism, but it is easier to get down massive amounts of food easier with more meals.

Steven,

I think with IF, this would be difficult as it would have me eating every hour. As it is, I am having difficulty stuffing down all the calories I need in that feed window. With IF, frequency is not much an importance. I divided it into 3 to keep me from gagging on all the food.

I may have to resort to olive oil, ala Greg, to get all the fat. There is a crap load to eat here....99 Blocks! And this is the first week. It's going up next week!:eek:

I feel and see myself getting soft, but my weight seems to be steady, or up maybe 2 pounds. It varies.

Steven Low
11-23-2007, 05:14 PM
Well, I was speaking for those of us with small stomaches. I think it's easier to eat many meals than it is to try to stuff 3 down at once to get all my cals.. which I can't do. Maybe it works the opposite for you. :D

Patrick Donnelly
11-23-2007, 06:11 PM
I feel and see myself getting soft, but my weight seems to be steady, or up maybe 2 pounds. It varies.

Weight varies far too much to try to measure it often. Just look for a rough average of ~1 pound each week, and take the measurement before the fast ends.


Good luck and have fun.

Greg Everett
11-26-2007, 09:30 AM
Snatch pull/ RDL - Just do a snatch pull.

Nick Tirkalas
11-26-2007, 11:33 AM
Thanks Greg

Nick Tirkalas
11-29-2007, 06:43 PM
So it seems that I have lost over 2lbs of muscle this past 2 weeks. Checked today. :eek:

What the hell. I am following the PM Mass gain to a 'T' Paleo Zone...hardly any cheats.

Anyone....Bueller!!!
Up the Protein?

Stop IF?? This seems to be the reason. I cannot afford to lose muscle. Not at my 139lbs.

Mike ODonnell
11-29-2007, 07:48 PM
Up your protein intake....some people need 1.5+ grams per bodyweight before they start seeing muscle gain

Up your total calories, Drop the IF for now as you need bigger window with more calories...come back to IF later to maintain if you want

Drop excess exercise such as metcon....

Simple 2 rules for mass gain:
1) Eat more
2) Exercise Less

Steven Low
11-29-2007, 07:53 PM
Up your protein intake....some people need 1.5+ grams per bodyweight before they start seeing muscle gain

What?? The body tends to utilize protein more effectively as the g/lbs drop up to a limit of course. There shouldn't be anyone that can't gain at least some muscle on 1g/lbs at the very LEAST. Heck, .5g/lbs bodyweight should be fine of course with adequate sleep, weightlifting routine and otherwise good diet albeit probably not optimally though.

Mike ODonnell
11-29-2007, 08:27 PM
There shouldn't be anyone that can't gain at least some muscle on 1g/lbs at the very LEAST.

True...but I tend to use the reality Bell curve.....tell people to intake 1gram/lb of bodyweight....they really eat 0.5 grams and say they eat enough....tell people to take in 1.5grams...then eat closer to 0.8grams....etc...everyone has different protein utilization rates...so the better the quality of protein and your digestion health...the less you will need....

Lots of other wonderful tools to use such as protein and carb cycling for loading, pwo consumption, creatine, meal timing, IF when done correctly can pack on muscle, and other stuff....when in doubt...eat more protein, drink more water, take fish oil, eat red meat/eggs, lift heavy, add digestive enzymes or eat pineapple with protein, do no cardio, etc....

Try this trick....drink a whey protein shake of 30grams with flaxseed oil with every FULL meal (assuming 3 bigger protein/fat/carb meals)...if you cant pack on lbs like that...mix it with whole milk....if you still lose weight/muscle....do the old powerlifting trick of drinking a gallon of milk every day along with meals (may get some fat though)....and if that doesnt work.....I completely give up as you must be burning more calories than Lance Armstrong training for a race.....

Steven Low
11-29-2007, 08:46 PM
I'll go with that. :D

Kevin Perry
11-30-2007, 11:57 PM
I second the whole milk idea, thats what I have started to do after stepping on a scale and noticing i have already dropped 10 pounds.

Nick Tirkalas
12-01-2007, 06:05 AM
I'm adding 2 shakes as Mike suggests, maybe with milk to mix.

I'm very frustrated right now as I've worked for fat loss for the past year and it turns out it wasn't. And now when I try to put the weight back on, I will be right back where I started a year ago.

And then I'll have to go back to fat loss to get rid of what I gained during this mass gain.

Any suggestions on how to limit the fat gain?

Mike ODonnell
12-01-2007, 07:27 AM
Fat gain is mostly spillover effect from additional carbs that are not replenishing muscle glycogen, so those will have to be monitored and changed. Have your higher carbs on when your muscles are the most sensitive on workout days pwo window 1-2 hours, and keep lower carbs/higher fat and protein on the others. Remember that muscles grow when you are not working them out...so don't try and do too much unless you know how to vary the intensity properly. That and plenty of protein of course.

Nick Tirkalas
12-01-2007, 01:41 PM
I was going back through my head and trying to figure out what happened. I really started losing weight when I Zoned out; around August. I think I never became fat adapted and I was, now obvious, using muscle. While I am trying to put that muscle back on, is it possible to get fat adapted at the same time or should I leave until I am done with the gain?

Mike ODonnell
12-01-2007, 07:29 PM
I imagine fat adaption would require more metcon work to adapt too....and it will be easier to put on weight quicker with little to no metcon for now.

Nick Tirkalas
12-02-2007, 04:42 PM
Metcon has been out since starting. I have gone up to 20 blocks with adding a 20g shakes immediately after the meal. (avg. 3 meals/d) Some with 1 cup milk, some without. I have to say. I can't stand milk. I feel all puckie. Let's see if those are enough calories. If not, I'm going to explode with all the damn eating.

I will check the BF% in 2 weeks which will end the first hyper cycle. Here's hoping for at least a trickle gain and stop of loss.

Mike ODonnell
12-03-2007, 06:44 AM
If Milk is tough...try 1/2 milk, 1/2 water to dilute it some. I'm not a huge fan of alot of milk but it does helps add the extra calories. Could try to sub in some coconut oil instead but that wont give you the extra protein that milk provides.

Andrew Wilson
12-18-2007, 07:15 PM
Hey Nick, I'm the exact same body size as you, and just switching over from CrossFit to CA WOD I've gone from 138 to 146 in 3 weeks. Haven't changed my diet at all, just the training switch

Nick Tirkalas
12-19-2007, 06:06 AM
Andrew,

I just started the strength cycle and have gained 8 lbs so far. I'm checking this Sat. for the type. I have gotten soft but not nearly as much as I thought I would. I'm keeping the carbs low and adjusting the fat as needed.

The strength cycle is kicking my ass. I am very tired. Oh well...

Keep posting your numbers here.