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Gant Grimes
01-04-2008, 01:26 PM
I did a day or two of IF for a couple weeks before Christmas. I dove in this week with 16, 18, 18, and 15 hour days. I ate mostly Paleo and didn't consume any carbs until after I had worked out (trying to force a fat adaptation). My performance sucked for a few days, and I was hungry as hell. Sometime yesterday afternoon a cloud lifted; the hunger disappeared and a peaceful feeling came over me.

I did the 30 muscle ups today followed by "Annie" (double unders and AbMat situps, 50-40-30-20-10) and nearly matched PRs. I still WAM protein, but I'm more liberal with fat and carbs (I don't eat enough of them to even worry about them).

Troy Archie
01-06-2008, 12:06 PM
I still WAM protein


What's WAM mean?

Chris Forbis
01-06-2008, 01:26 PM
What's WAM mean?

Weigh And Measure

Mike ODonnell
01-06-2008, 02:32 PM
What's WAM mean?

and here I thought it was Worcester And Meat......

Patrick Donnelly
01-06-2008, 05:57 PM
Gant, it's good to see another person begin and enjoy IF.

Gant Grimes
01-07-2008, 07:54 AM
I'm starting the second full week of IF. I did a 16-18 hour fast each weekday and did about the same on the weekend. I've already leaned out quite a bit (wasn't necessarily trying to) and I feel better.

The biggest benefit is not worrying about eating all the damn time. As I said, I still WAM my protein, and I still think of it in Zone blocks. I take in good fat with every meal, including some Carb/Fat swapping. Instead of WAM carbs, I just eat some if I feel like it.

I relaxed my standards a bit on the weekend and found that 1) I felt less guilty about "cheating" and 2) I simply wasn't hungry enough to cheat too badly.

Honestly, I though IF was a bunch of bullshit, and I posted as much on the CF forums. After struggling for months to find the right numbers on the Zone--that didn't involve chewing related DOMS--I finally found something that will work.

Mike ODonnell
01-07-2008, 08:08 AM
Honestly, I though IF was a bunch of bullshit, and I posted as much on the CF forums. After struggling for months to find the right numbers on the Zone--that didn't involve chewing related DOMS--I finally found something that will work.

That is Intermittent Bullshit to be technical. Ha.

Glad you found something that works...as that is the whole point. Best part is, you can make it variable to your particular needs and can also change feeding windows depending on how you feel. Results are hard to argue, as most do very well as long as you are still getting enough protein and calories, do not overtrain. and get good sleep and recovery. The zone will give you good results, but it never fit into my desire to not obsess over eating ever 3 hours, carrying plastic containers of food, and just being able to enjoy my lifestyle of health and fitness. But now you are learning more about how your body responds to eating/fasting and can listen to what works best for it. That will dramatically improve your health and fitness without needing any set formula and you will have total control over your state of health.

Funny how in all this IF randomness of eating and working out...one can feel better, lose fat, gain muscle, have more energy and be able to feel like they can start living outside of the kitchen and gym.

Greg Battaglia
01-07-2008, 12:37 PM
Gant, glad to hear of your success. Great stuff. Just to give you a heads up, remember that IF is intended to elicit an acute response, not a chronic one. I think a lot of people (myself included, not saying you are though) are so impressed with the results of their IF experience once they see the benefits that they want more and more. I can personally attest to the claim that IF has it's euphoric effects on the body and mind, which can indeed become quite addictive. All beginner IFer's need to now that IF should never be taken to far, and like MOD said in another thread it should be used as a tool for increasing insulin sensitivity. Sorry for the rant, just didn't want anyone else to have the bad experience I had by creating a chronic stressor with IF. Doing 18 hours every day has proven to be too much for my personally physiology. This may or may not be the case for you, but I figured I'd touch on it since you are doing something similar to what gave me great results in the beginning but ended up being very problematic. Hope things workout for the best with your IF experience! Listen to your body!

Gant Grimes
01-07-2008, 12:51 PM
Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Greg, I'll definitely keep tabs on it. I haven't yet felt anything I'd describe as euphoric yet (although I feel better). What I like about it so far is the relief of not having to eating a damn suitcase of food every meal. That in itself is enough for me. I didn't know about the stressors; I'll probably have a morning meal 1-3 days a week to avoid that. And I'll definitely keep reading and learning.

I chose my windows out of convenience, but they're not set in stone. I eat supper around 5:30, and I workout at noon. So a 6 pm-11 am fast (17 hours is convenient). I can wait another hour on recovery days (18) and whatever happens on the weekends will happen. Some days I'll probably have some breakfast; I just like having the option. Like I said earlier, it's also removed the stress of cheating. I'm not hungry enough to cheat too bad, and if I do, I won't feel so bad about it.

Y'all have to understand how big a deal this is for me. 14 months ago, I was a member of IFOCE (International Federation of Competitive Eaters). I would regluarly have eating competitions with my fat co-workers. I took competitive eating as seriously as Doc G took his nightshade research. Finding CrossFit last February, and, through that, these nutrition forums, have profoundly changed my life. I owe all of you a debt.

Mike ODonnell
01-07-2008, 01:26 PM
Greg makes a good point, like anything...more is not better. IF is a great tool, but can be abused to the point of malnutrition and not being able to recover. If for some reason you feel performance slipping, try IF every other day. Most people I recommend only 2-3x a week to get the hang of it. Getting good foods all day long will trump any benefit of IF on crappy food. Fasting has many beneficial aspects to it, but there is a point if pushed too far the benefits will go in the opposite direction. When in doubt, dont obsess over it and listen to how your body is responding, recovering and performing.

Susie Rosenberg
01-07-2008, 04:34 PM
Gant, wow, that's some history you've got behind you.

I'm glad IF is working for you now. I'm with you on the Zone thing. It made me crazy. I am not one to sit with a plate of 3 macadamia nuts, 3 sardines, and half an orange. (What do you do with the other half???)

So far, IF has increased my ability to be in touch with my body and what it needs. In two weeks of daily 16 hour fasts, I've woken up on 2 days and knew I needed to eat. So I ate, no big deal.

Like you, I feel really good. I did get euphoric the first week, but now that's leveled off some to just "good."

It'll be interesting to watch your experiment unfold....you work so hard.

Susie

Stuart Mather
01-08-2008, 12:05 AM
Gant, glad to hear of your success. Great stuff. Just to give you a heads up, remember that IF is intended to elicit an acute response, not a chronic one. I think a lot of people (myself included, not saying you are though) are so impressed with the results of their IF experience once they see the benefits that they want more and more. I can personally attest to the claim that IF has it's euphoric effects on the body and mind, which can indeed become quite addictive. All beginner IFer's need to now that IF should never be taken to far, and like MOD said in another thread it should be used as a tool for increasing insulin sensitivity. Sorry for the rant, just didn't want anyone else to have the bad experience I had by creating a chronic stressor with IF. Doing 18 hours every day has proven to be too much for my personally physiology. This may or may not be the case for you, but I figured I'd touch on it since you are doing something similar to what gave me great results in the beginning but ended up being very problematic. Hope things workout for the best with your IF experience! Listen to your body!

Greg, I take your point about the increased insulin sensitivity being important. But do you think improved nutrient partitioning, increased neurotrophic growth factor/hgh is relevant too? I was too much of wuss to push the fast length more than 15 hrs the first few months, but I've been IF'ing for over a year now and alternate between 18hrs one day and 21 the next. On the 6hr windows I can easily graze my way through 2000 low carb cals without ever feeling like I'm cramming food into my mouth or rushing each mouthful. I've always been a slow eater, now I just eat slowly for less of my waking hours. On the three hr window alternate days, I graze my way through about 1700 of the same macronutrient ratio fare.

I wonder whether your caution about avoiding a chronic metabolic stressor, is relevant only when you rush into it, after basically eating more regularly your entire life. If it takes a years gradual ramping up to ensure that one (long) meal up to six hours long (and I mean really slow eating) , isn't that reaping the benefits of the acute stress of the other 18 fasting, but doing it every day ? In other words I've yet to find a metabolic/performance/psychological/lifestyle downside to daily much longer than 'normal' fasts. I still enjoy the company of other people eating and I drink calorie free liquids. Hunger while fasting stopped being an issue altogether after the first 8 months. In fact I sometimes find myself noticing that chronologically, it is time to eat. Otherwise I'd probably not bother. The first mouthful reminds me of the joy of eating, and I have no problem enjoying six or three hours of gourmet adventuring.

I think sometimes our conventional models of 'acute' and 'chronic' metabolic stressors are woefully lacking in sophistication.

Stuart

Greg Battaglia
01-08-2008, 05:49 PM
Stuart,
Good points you've made. I agree that things like increased BDNF and altered gene expression are incredibly important and beneficial upsides of IF. Currently no research that I am aware of has compared the effects of different amounts of days fasted/week. In every study all subjects fasted on an on/off schedule, with no breaks between cycles. Therefore, it's necessary for us to use the black box to determine what is useful for our purposes. Part of the reason why I failed with a daily fast is because my stress level was already through the roof. I was going to college, working, working out, cooking all of my own food, and buying all of my own food, which placed a higher level of stress on my body as a whole. My day consisted off moving non-stopped all day, worry non-stopped all day, for all waking hours, even when eating. I think that all of this combined with IF is what threw me over the edge. It was just too much stress from all sources. Now that I have some time to relax and just work and concentrate on objectives that I'm interested in pursuing (taking a semester off from college) I will likely add IF back in on a regular basis so that I can actually sit down and relax and enjoy my meals worry-free. With this in mind, it's easy to see that the implementation of IF in domesticated humans will vary greatly from on individual to another based on their lifestyle, schedule, and overall stress level. When you're already stressed to the max, adding in some little stressors in an attempt to produce a hormetic effect is going to do more harm than good. Some people may be able to fast every single day fro 20 hours. Other maybe not at all due to excessive stress.