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Edward Friedman
01-11-2008, 11:19 AM
Discuss.

Mike ODonnell
01-11-2008, 11:56 AM
Is this just for guys?

Scott Kustes
01-11-2008, 12:08 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_(fruit)

Greg Battaglia
01-11-2008, 12:24 PM
Nuts and seeds can be a part of a healthy Paleo diet and are recommended. They should, however, be consumed in supplemental/moderate amounts for several reasons:

1. Unless you soak your nuts you are going to be ingesting a similar level of anti-nutrients as found in grains. Although cooking reduces anti-nutrient content somewhat, eating roasted nuts and seeds is not much of an improvement. The oils used to roast nuts are typically non-paleo anyway, and therefore unbalanced in n-6/n-3 ratio, weighted heavily toward the n-6 side.

2. Even if you do soak your nuts and remove most of the anti-nutrients your still stuck with a less-than-ideal n-6/n-3 ratio. Most nuts are rather high in n-6 and low in n-3. To top this off, plant-based n-3's are inefficiently converted from ALA to DHA, so you're not getting much of the desired DHA (the beneficial component) from the n-3's in nuts anyway. Walnuts, macadamias, and pecans have the lowest n-6/n-3 ratio, and are therefore preferable over other varieties.

3. Nuts are expensive. Paleo dieters on a budget would benefit from limiting nut consumption and replacing them with other healthy fats like Olive oil, avocados, and eggs (organic of course, their still pretty cheap).

4. When consumed in larger quantities they tend to cause moderate to severe digestive disturbances. This probably goes back to the anti-nutrient issue, but I have found that even after soaking nuts they still cause digestive distress in higher amounts.

Take-home message: Eat nuts moderately regardless of whether you soak them or not. Treat them as a supplemental aspect of the diet to help with variety and flavor. A good rule of thumb is 1 handful/day. My method is to make meat, clean fats, and non-starchy vegetables the base and incorporate nuts and fruit in supplemental quantities.

Edward Friedman
01-11-2008, 12:52 PM
Thanks Greg. The info you gave is what I had in mind. ( I tend to eat way too many. Hard to limit myself to a handful.)



Nuts and seeds can be a part of a healthy Paleo diet and are recommended. They should, however, be consumed in supplemental/moderate amounts for several reasons:

1. Unless you soak your nuts you are going to be ingesting a similar level of anti-nutrients as found in grains. Although cooking reduces anti-nutrient content somewhat, eating roasted nuts and seeds is not much of an improvement. The oils used to roast nuts are typically non-paleo anyway, and therefore unbalanced in n-6/n-3 ratio, weighted heavily toward the n-6 side.

2. Even if you do soak your nuts and remove most of the anti-nutrients your still stuck with a less-than-ideal n-6/n-3 ratio. Most nuts are rather high in n-6 and low in n-3. To top this off, plant-based n-3's are inefficiently converted from ALA to DHA, so you're not getting much of the desired DHA (the beneficial component) from the n-3's in nuts anyway. Walnuts, macadamias, and pecans have the lowest n-6/n-3 ratio, and are therefore preferable over other varieties.

3. Nuts are expensive. Paleo dieters on a budget would benefit from limiting nut consumption and replacing them with other healthy fats like Olive oil, avocados, and eggs (organic of course, their still pretty cheap).

4. When consumed in larger quantities they tend to cause moderate to severe digestive disturbances. This probably goes back to the anti-nutrient issue, but I have found that even after soaking nuts they still cause digestive distress in higher amounts.

Take-home message: Eat nuts moderately regardless of whether you soak them or not. Treat them as a supplemental aspect of the diet to help with variety and flavor. A good rule of thumb is 1 handful/day. My method is to make meat, clean fats, and non-starchy vegetables the base and incorporate nuts and fruit in supplemental quantities.

Mike ODonnell
01-11-2008, 01:05 PM
Nuts = High in PUFAs...which are highly unstable...which can lead to excessive oxidative damage to cells and poor cell membrane structure (soft).

Like Greg said...moderation with PUFAs, as most of your dietary fats should be healthy sat and MUFAs...with some added fish oil of course.

Garrett Smith
01-11-2008, 02:52 PM
The longer I've been on Paleo, the less nuts I eat.

I think shelling your own nuts would be super-Paleo-style, burning calories to get calories.

If people are strict Paleo and still aren't feeling like they are digesting well, I have them reduce the amount of nuts in their diet. Some people get into absolutely obscene quantities of nuts on a Paleo plan! Nuts are made not to digest well.

Greg Battaglia
01-13-2008, 12:44 PM
I agree. I've noticed that Paleo diet beginners also tend to over do the fruit as well. Many times their diets are almost exclusively fruit and nuts, with a little meat and hardly any vegetables. They go for the most calorie dense, aggressive tasting foods allowed. It's probably good at first; displacing processed junk with fruit and nuts is definitely a nice step in the right direction, but eventually there needs to be a shift toward more vegetables and meat and relying on fruit and nuts in only supplemental quantities.

Patrick Donnelly
01-13-2008, 06:24 PM
Wouldn't reducing nut intake for the sake of olive oil, avocados, and organic eggs be reducing the overall variety of the diet? What else it there? We don't really have access to edible animal brains and bone marrow like Paleolithic humans did...

Jordan Glasser
01-13-2008, 08:21 PM
The longer I've been on Paleo, the less nuts I eat.


I stopped eating nuts. Way better digestion without them. But it definitely took some time on strict paleo eating to get rid of them as a staple.

Wouldn't reducing nut intake for the sake of olive oil, avocados, and organic eggs be reducing the overall variety of the diet? What else it there? We don't really have access to edible animal brains and bone marrow like Paleolithic humans did...

I tend to agree with the concept you are getting at patrick. Although you mention variety, it's micronutrients that are impacted. Case in point for me has been adding hemp protein and shelled hemp seeds to my diet. They replaced the drinking of olive oils, coconut and palm oils (not completely, just in amounts). I've had significant improvements in BF%, body mass, and performance. Which I believe is due to the added vitamins and minerals.

I've been all over the hemp products as of late. With the amount of Zinc and magnesium in them, I swear it's natures' version of ZMA. Short deep sleeps, waking up alert, great recovery, and let's not forget the dreams......

sarena kopciel
01-14-2008, 02:47 AM
Which hemp protein do u use--nutiva?
I go thru phases with using it!

Jordan Glasser
01-14-2008, 06:40 AM
Which hemp protein do u use--nutiva?
I go thru phases with using it!

I've been using Nutiva, their hemp protein seems to have the most insoluble fiber, as well as zinc and magnesium.

Greg Battaglia
01-14-2008, 11:39 AM
Patrick,
If we use this logic then we might as well say "Why eliminate grains, dairy, and beans? If we included them we would have more flexibility and variety". You're assuming that nuts were a regular and significant part of the Paleolithic diet, when in reality they were probably eaten in small amounts and infrequently. Just because something is allowed on the Paleo diet doesn't mean that it should be eaten in unlimited quantities. Additionally, if a "Paleo" food is found to be detrimental in such quantities it should clearly be limited to some extent. There's no reason to become dogmatic in regards to the Paleo approach. It should be used as a template to help explain why Paleo foods are beneficial and Neolithic foods are detrimental. If the theory/evidence suggests that a certain Paleo food may be harmful or was only eaten in limited amounts, then the dieter should adjust accordingly, especially if incorporating a certain food in a high quantity produces detrimental effects (black box).

Patrick Donnelly
01-14-2008, 02:40 PM
Re: Greg
A valid point.


Meh, I'll probably take another look at my diet after college. Until then, it's going to be too have complete control over my food, and I think I'm doing pretty fine right now.

Greg Battaglia
01-14-2008, 03:03 PM
Fair enough. I'm in college and find eating strict Paleo to be rather simple and easy. Then again, I commute to school, so I have a newly remodeled kitchen in my house to use at my advantage. I don't know your situation, but it sounds like you're living at school, which I'm sure must be tough to work around.

Patrick Donnelly
01-14-2008, 07:32 PM
No, right now it's worse than that.




I'm still a senior in high school, living at home, and don't get to leave for another 7 months! http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1091/iconwackobz7.gif

Scott Kustes
01-15-2008, 04:41 AM
Just because something is allowed on the Paleo diet doesn't mean that it should be eaten in unlimited quantities.
Honey is a perfect example.

Eva Claire Synkowski
01-15-2008, 07:11 AM
I've been using Nutiva, their hemp protein seems to have the most insoluble fiber, as well as zinc and magnesium.

jordan - how do you eat your hemp protein? i mix mine with coconut milk to make a "yogurt" type meal... but looking for other ideas.

Jordan Glasser
01-15-2008, 03:07 PM
jordan - how do you eat your hemp protein? i mix mine with coconut milk to make a "yogurt" type meal... but looking for other ideas.

Before I give you my answer, know that I started making "this" because I was trying to eat all the things in my fridge/pantry that I haven't touched in months.

Frozen berries (varies between 15 gr and 30 gr net carbs)
scoop of pea protein (Vanilla flavor, by Pure advantage)
15-30 gr of Hemp protein
10 gr of raw cocao nibs
lots of cinnamon or pumpkin spice

I add a little water and mix it with a spoon. The pea protein thickens with water and makes a paste, as long as you don't add too much.

Things to note. I used to HATE the taste of the pea protein, but I am addicted to this little bowl of goodness. It's been my staple breakfast for the last little while. It also get used as a PWO, or if I'm lazy eat it as a snack.

I'd rather not be eating so many berries, but, somehow I've dropped a good 5 pounds (All BF) since adding this to my diet daily. I did also start drinking my homemade kombucha at the same time, so there's more to it then just my breakfast.


Here's the pea protein I use. Like I said, I first couldn't stand the taste, but for some reason I am loving it when I mix it this way.
http://www.veganessentials.com/catalog/pure-advantage-natural-pea-protein--22-lb-jug.htm)

sarena kopciel
01-15-2008, 03:15 PM
jordan - how do you eat your hemp protein? i mix mine with coconut milk to make a "yogurt" type meal... but looking for other ideas.

And which coconut milk do you buy EC? They all seem so full of stabilizers and stuff?

Allen Yeh
01-15-2008, 03:19 PM
And which coconut milk do you buy EC? They all seem so full of stabilizers and stuff?

TJ's Coconut milk says:

Ingredients Coconut Milk, water

Eva Claire Synkowski
01-15-2008, 05:28 PM
Before I give you my answer, know that I started making "this" because I was trying to eat all the things in my fridge/pantry that I haven't touched in months.

Frozen berries (varies between 15 gr and 30 gr net carbs)
scoop of pea protein (Vanilla flavor, by Pure advantage)
15-30 gr of Hemp protein
10 gr of raw cocao nibs
lots of cinnamon or pumpkin spice

I add a little water and mix it with a spoon. The pea protein thickens with water and makes a paste, as long as you don't add too much.

Things to note. I used to HATE the taste of the pea protein, but I am addicted to this little bowl of goodness. It's been my staple breakfast for the last little while. It also get used as a PWO, or if I'm lazy eat it as a snack.

I'd rather not be eating so many berries, but, somehow I've dropped a good 5 pounds (All BF) since adding this to my diet daily. I did also start drinking my homemade kombucha at the same time, so there's more to it then just my breakfast.


Here's the pea protein I use. Like I said, I first couldn't stand the taste, but for some reason I am loving it when I mix it this way.
http://www.veganessentials.com/catalog/pure-advantage-natural-pea-protein--22-lb-jug.htm)

wow, jordan! that's quite a combination. i think i may stick to my uber easy two ingredient meal.

dare i ask... i didnt think peas were "ok" for the paleo folk?

Eva Claire Synkowski
01-15-2008, 05:29 PM
TJ's Coconut milk says:

Ingredients Coconut Milk, water


allen's got it. i get the "light" version of coconut milk at tj's. i did notice its hard to find just coconut milk/water at whole foods.

sarena kopciel
01-15-2008, 06:43 PM
allen's got it. i get the "light" version of coconut milk at tj's. i did notice its hard to find just coconut milk/water at whole foods.

Thanks. DO you buy the plain nutiva hemp pwdr?

Jordan Glasser
01-15-2008, 07:07 PM
wow, jordan! that's quite a combination. i think i may stick to my uber easy two ingredient meal.

dare i ask... i didnt think peas were "ok" for the paleo folk?

I believe it is. More so then rice, soy, whey, and cassein.

As for preparation, sure it has more then 2 ingredients. But still takes 10 seconds to prepare!

And the question about the nutiva, it's the plain organic.

Garrett Smith
01-16-2008, 05:31 AM
Peas are technically legumes, so they don't fit strict Paleo.

Hard to find protein powders that fit Paleo guidelines, mainly because protein powder is inherently a processed food. Hard to process meat into a powder (or at least there isn't enough money/demand to do so other than the www.leviticus11.com glandular powders).

Allen Yeh
01-16-2008, 08:56 AM
allen's got it. i get the "light" version of coconut milk at tj's. i did notice its hard to find just coconut milk/water at whole foods.

I forgot to put Light, it's in a green can. Good stuff, my 2 year old loves the stuff, I always make sure I put extra stuff into my shakes as he tends to end up drinking 1/3 of them anyway!

Jordan Glasser
01-16-2008, 09:52 AM
Peas are technically legumes, so they don't fit strict Paleo.

Hard to find protein powders that fit Paleo guidelines, mainly because protein powder is inherently a processed food. Hard to process meat into a powder (or at least there isn't enough money/demand to do so other than the www.leviticus11.com glandular powders).

What are your thoughts on these non-paleo protein powders. The obvious being don't use a protein substitute, go for the real thing!

Personally, from switching to grassfed from grainfed meats I noticed a big difference. So, I am trying desperately to avoid anything from an animal that is grainfed.
I haven't really thought about how pea's are non paleo, and whether their protein would have the same potential dangers as Legumes in general.
I probably should.

sarena kopciel
01-16-2008, 10:47 AM
Just going with the whole nut theme here, I realized I should share this as I had told Dr. G!!

I was having a terrible time with sluggish digestion despite paleo, IF and all. I couldnt--even with Dr G--figure it out. During my last consult 2 week ago, Dr. G suggested I cut out almonds and when using other nuts to be sure to chew them well or use only in nut butters. I took his suggestion and voila--problem is solved!! SO for me, I was probably overdoing the nuts and/or not chewing them well.

I have been making my own nut butters to use in limited quantities--my best combo is
1 c chop pecans
1 c chop walnuts
1/3 c gr flax seeds
Mix well in food processor!

Eva Claire Synkowski
01-16-2008, 05:29 PM
Thanks. DO you buy the plain nutiva hemp pwdr?

ive never actually tried the plain. i go for chocolate, mixed in the light coconut milk. sometimes, ill throw in some almonds. mmmm.

http://www.amazon.com/Nutiva-HempShake-Chocolate-16-Ounce-Canister/dp/B000P3JHO2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1200315181&sr=8-1

sarena kopciel
01-16-2008, 05:54 PM
ive never actually tried the plain. i go for chocolate, mixed in the light coconut milk. sometimes, ill throw in some almonds. mmmm.

http://www.amazon.com/Nutiva-HempShake-Chocolate-16-Ounce-Canister/dp/B000P3JHO2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1200315181&sr=8-1

Well I may not like you anymore EC.;) I made today coconut milk, nutiva plain with some raw org cacao, flax seeds and a pinch of stevia. Yummy

Garrett Smith
01-17-2008, 06:15 AM
Jordan,
My opinion is if one is going to do protein powders (for the convenience and protein gluttony they allow), they should be Paleo and high quality.

"Meat" powders: Liver, thymus, adrenal from www.leviticus11.com, egg white protein, or one can always blend/grind up offal in their "meat shake" :-)

"Nuts and seeds" powders: Hemp, flax, brazil nut

or going non-Paleo,
Refined as little as possible dairy powders: raw/undenatured cow or goat whey from grassfed animals

Rice protein still tends to have a lot of carbs (besides being a grain), and I do not know if pea protein (besides being a legume) still has lectin issues, since lectins are proteins. Both are still "weak" proteins.