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Edward Friedman
01-17-2008, 06:55 AM
Shangri La Diet ("SLD")...Please google for info if you don't know what it is. (I'll wait :) ) ( Please insert humming sound or the space filler "t..t..t..t." sound people make on the phone when you ask them to look something up.)

So, I am not prepared to invest the brain time right now to form an informed opinion about the "re-setting the set point" theory. However, I am greatly attracted to the much ballyhooed "AS" (appetite suppressant) effect, with the "cherry on top" other claimed effects, ( ie; "prettier" skin & hair, better sleep, mental balance/calm, etc.,) of "chugging" a shot of flax oil 1-3x per day. ( I admit, I'm doing it noseclip style to give my personal "experimentation" a bona fide try.)

Started 1.13.07.

My apologies if this strays too far from appropriate Paleo discussion.
( Sincerely, I'm not sure. Especially, if one embraces, as a paleo "offshoot" and, as I understand it, Dr. DeVaney's view of EvFit, which, again as I understand it, is NOT "pure paleo" ie; supplementation is utilized, rather, it is based in Paleo while taking advantage of modern tweaking.)

Edward Friedman
01-17-2008, 11:56 AM
Ahhh...never asked the question:

Does anyone hear have an opinion or experience with this approach ?

Thanks.

Eddie

Garrett Smith
01-17-2008, 01:15 PM
I'd be interested in hearing Black Box results too. I have a patient who eats so much meat and veggies she is actually gaining weight--if the appetite set-point can be reset, that would be extremely helpful in her case.

Edward Friedman
01-17-2008, 01:40 PM
Dr. G.,

Excuse me, I don't know quite what the term "black box" means.

The SLD forums seem to indicate that it is a "hit or miss" proposition, (ie; it does not work for everyone,) but mostly "hit".

Based on testimonials there, it seems to be a no-brainer. I'm accumulating data on my most important testimonial, my own experience. I'm trying it for 1-2 months. ( Another varying aspect, initiation of the "AS effect". Some/most folks 24-48 hours. Others, 3+ weeks.)

Garrett Smith
01-17-2008, 04:55 PM
Edward,
I'd be happy to familiarize you with the Black Box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box). It's a term that gets used a lot around the CrossFit and PMenu forums. From the link:
Black box is a technical term for a device or system or object when it is viewed primarily in terms of its input and output characteristics. Almost anything might occasionally be referred to as a black box: a transistor, an algorithm, humans, the Internet.

And from Black Box Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box_theory):
In science studies, a more abstract notion of a black box refers to the result of the social process of blackboxing, which is, to cite Bruno Latour, "the way scientific and technical work is made invisible by its own success. When a machine runs efficiently, when a matter of fact is settled, one need focus only on its inputs and outputs and not on its internal complexity. Thus, paradoxically, the more science and technology succeed, the more opaque and obscure they become." (Latour: Pandora's Hope).

I love that last part, the last sentence. Sounds like modern medicine to me.

Basically, it means to try things (input) and see what happens (output) before dismissing them solely based on conjecture and theory (don't assume one knows how the Black Box works if one can't see inside!). Like many on this board have done with IF. Hopefully like my patient whose appetite (even for really clean food) is so outrageous that she's gaining bodyfat! I could argue the theory and use of sugar in the Shangri-La Diet, which would get me nowhere fast, but unless I want to go to chemically-oriented appetite suppressants (herbal or pharmaceutical), I figured I'd let her Black Box this approach. She seems interested so far!

We are all experiments of one.

Edward Friedman
01-18-2008, 07:19 AM
Dr. G.,

I actually looked at the Wiki definition you linked to before writing that I did not know what the term meant. I still didn't really get it until I read your explanation. Thanks ! So basically it is, let's look at experience rather than theory, yes ? ( There was a quote on Dr. Eades' blog recently that comes to mind: "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." Winston Churchill.)

I recoil at the idea of drinking "sugar water". Call me closed minded, but I a'int goin' there ! However the flax oil I am willing to, and actually am, trying.

One noticeable effect so far, ( placebo ? ) is enhanced sense of calm. ( Is the flax oil healing something that had been deficient in my brain chemistry ? )

Best wishes to your patient. If she is going to try it, she may want to check out the SLD forums.

All the best,

Eddie

Garrett Smith
01-18-2008, 08:32 AM
Eddie,
Glad I could help with the definition.

So, you're doing the SLD without the sugar water? Are you substituting something else, or did you just omit it?

Edward Friedman
01-18-2008, 08:54 AM
1.5 tablespoon of Barleans organic flax seed oil in a "Bed, Bath & Beyond" measuring "shot glass", first thing a.m. and last thing p.m. with "nose clipped" to avoid "taste/flavor" association to the calories,* and a large glass of water as a "chaser". No flavor (food, beverage, toothpaste, anything,) one hour before or after oil to further avoid association. Never did (likely never will do,) sugar water. (*to bring about the theoretical set point resetting effect.)

I believe even the developer of SLD evolved from the sugar water to only oil.
(You might find the SLD book or at least blog & forum of interest.) FWIW, he rotates Flax & Walnut oils.

(BTW, even though I was planning on taking a break from daily Fast-5, and making "IF more I", so far SLD has made IF easier via the "calmness" reported and some initial "AS". I'll see what the Black Box :) developments are as I proceed.)