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Tim Donahey
02-05-2008, 09:27 AM
Which are good and which are bad and which aren't really nuts or seeds at all?





first post woohoo!

Scott Kustes
02-05-2008, 10:10 AM
Peanuts are legumes. Cashews require heat processing to be extracted and are therefore, technically, not Paleo as they can't be eaten raw. Other than that, I think all other nuts and seeds are fair game.

Mike ODonnell
02-05-2008, 10:23 AM
Walnuts...Almonds....Macadamia....best is of course Non-roasted, Non-salted and Raw organic.

Remember that most have more omega 6s than 3s, so keep in moderation or inflammation may increase. That and MUFA and healthy Sat fats are better and more stable if you can get them. Everything in moderation.

Will Moore
02-05-2008, 10:50 AM
Peanuts are often shunned by the Paleo crowd because they are technicaly a legeume. I don't totally agree with that. Unlilke other legumes, peanuts can be dug up and eaten in a raw state. Many other legumes would certainly put you in the hospital if you tried this. Also, the macros are similar, and in some cases superior to actual tree nuts. For those concerned about carbohydrates, they contain less than pistachios and cashews. They have more protein than any tree nut. They contain less polyunsaturated fat than walnuts or seeds and are therefore less prone to rancidity.

Then there's the issue of fungus in peanuts. Everyone here is already aware so I won't elaborate. I will say, however that I live in the heart of peanut country in North Carolina and the risk is small when eating this local peanut crop. I have visited the farms and seen their processes for harvesting, curing, and storing peanuts. All batches are thoroughly screened and storage conditions are under intense scrutiny to prevent fungus. North Carolina grows the Virginia Peanut, the largest kind most commonly eaten in the shell and as "Coctail" peanuts (i.e. Planters brand). North Carolina grows far more Virginia Peanuts than Virginia does and you can Google several good online sources for buying these. If one must eat peanuts, I suggest these above all others for quality and safety. NEVER buy imported Chinese or Indian peanuts...you are really taking your chances. Anyway, that's my "two cents" on Peanuts. I can only attest to the quality and safety of locally grown Virginia Peanuts. Larger peanut producing states, such as Georgia, Alabama, and Texas grow "Runner" peanuts, 90% of which are destined to become peanut butter. I am not aware of their quality assurance standards.

Tim Donahey
02-06-2008, 01:29 PM
Peanuts are legumes. Cashews require heat processing to be extracted and are therefore, technically, not Paleo as they can't be eaten raw. Other than that, I think all other nuts and seeds are fair game.

Is it only okay to heat process a food to kill bacteria, ie meats, and not as a way to remove toxins? Are raw cashews toxic?

Will Moore
02-06-2008, 06:21 PM
No, raw cashews are not toxic raw and you can buy them raw for eating right out of the bag or can. They are more difficult to find at normal stores, but you can order them online. There are two different schools of thought on eating cashews: Some say to eat them raw so that you do not alter or destroy the beneficial fats. Others say to roast them so that their nutrients (minerals) are more available. I would try roasted and raw and see which works best. Be carefull eating too many if you are counting carbs because they have the most of any nut.

Allen Yeh
02-07-2008, 04:14 AM
Peanuts are often shunned by the Paleo crowd because they are technicaly a legeume. I don't totally agree with that. Unlilke other legumes, peanuts can be dug up and eaten in a raw state. Many other legumes would certainly put you in the hospital if you tried this. Also, the macros are similar, and in some cases superior to actual tree nuts. For those concerned about carbohydrates, they contain less than pistachios and cashews. They have more protein than any tree nut. They contain less polyunsaturated fat than walnuts or seeds and are therefore less prone to rancidity.

Then there's the issue of fungus in peanuts. Everyone here is already aware so I won't elaborate. I will say, however that I live in the heart of peanut country in North Carolina and the risk is small when eating this local peanut crop. I have visited the farms and seen their processes for harvesting, curing, and storing peanuts. All batches are thoroughly screened and storage conditions are under intense scrutiny to prevent fungus. North Carolina grows the Virginia Peanut, the largest kind most commonly eaten in the shell and as "Coctail" peanuts (i.e. Planters brand). North Carolina grows far more Virginia Peanuts than Virginia does and you can Google several good online sources for buying these. If one must eat peanuts, I suggest these above all others for quality and safety. NEVER buy imported Chinese or Indian peanuts...you are really taking your chances. Anyway, that's my "two cents" on Peanuts. I can only attest to the quality and safety of locally grown Virginia Peanuts. Larger peanut producing states, such as Georgia, Alabama, and Texas grow "Runner" peanuts, 90% of which are destined to become peanut butter. I am not aware of their quality assurance standards.


Hm I'll have to check what TJ's sells the next time I'm in there now.

Scott Kustes
02-07-2008, 05:19 AM
Is it only okay to heat process a food to kill bacteria, ie meats, and not as a way to remove toxins? Are raw cashews toxic?
I think the issue boils down to "can the food be eaten raw?" It's not necessarily whether it is or not.

Tim Donahey
02-07-2008, 09:55 AM
Another question. I've heard that the reasoning behind corn and wheat being inedible is that, b/c they are seeds, they possess attributes that make them undigestible so they will be ready for seeding after passing through an animals' digestive tract. Why doesn't this reasoning apply to sunflower and pumpkin seeds?

Garrett Smith
02-07-2008, 11:22 AM
Tim,
In general I think it does--that's why many people soak and/or sprout their seeds to make them more digestible, as it breaks down many of the antinutrients.

The more nuts and seeds I see people eat (excessive amounts), I often see more digestive difficulties. Especially with a lack of chewing.

sarena kopciel
02-10-2008, 10:54 AM
Well on this thought, I basically gave up nuts and most seeds (except flax and hemp) a few weeks ago! Last week I added back in some nuts just cause I was out and that was something easy to grab! Well one thing led to another and I overdid nuts all last week. Yesterday I realized how congested I was and how my digestion became sluggish again. My first thought (and my gut reactions are usually pretty precise) is --NUTS are going out again!!

For me, it is obvious there is a direct correlation! Oh well!

Brad Davis
02-29-2008, 08:22 PM
Coming into the discussion late...

I guess I might need to change my fat source because I currently get a lot of fat calories from nuts, mostly walnuts, almonds, and macadamia nuts.

I have a question, though: Some mentioned digestive issues. I do not have even the slightest issue with digestion, that I am aware of anyway. Does this mean I'm ok with my nut intake or will there be problems elsewhere?

That being typed, I DO have joint inflammation issues. These have gotten much worse over the last year or so since I went paleo--actually had very little trouble with inflammation before that. (I've actually thought a little lately about going back to my grain-based processed crap food diet for a while to see what happens.) This coincides with increased nut intake. Are nuts likely to be responsible for this?

Garrett Smith
03-01-2008, 01:15 PM
Brad,
Have you increased your nightshade intake since going Paleo?

Also, the best ways to figure out any connection between nuts and your inflammatory issues is a blood food sensitivity (aka "allergy") test or complete avoidance & re-introduction.

Brad Davis
03-02-2008, 10:15 AM
Dr. G,

I really don't think I have increased nightshades and would guess that their amount is about the same or less than before. Before, I ate a lot of spaghetti with meat sauce, chili, etc. Now I'll occasionally have something with peppers or tomatoes, but I think it's less.

Well, being a poor PhD student near the end of my program, I won't be paying for allergy testing. Perhaps in August when I get a real job, LOL.

I stopped eating nuts yesterday and will try the avoidance test. About how long should it take to know if it's helping? I'm going to increase intake of avocados and olive oil. Other fat from high Omega-3 eggs. Sound reasonable?

Thanks
DBD

Mike ODonnell
03-02-2008, 11:11 AM
Brad, most nuts are higher in Omega 6s than Omega 3s. So yes, high nut intake can severely offset your Omega 6:3 ratio and lead to inflammation. Try for other sources of fat like monounsaturated(olive oil/avacado) and MCTs (coconut oil)/good Sat Fat (organic butter/grassfed beef). Make sure your meats are NOT grain fed (including eggs and farmed fish)...as they carry a ton of Omega 6s in the form of AA (which is the primary inflammation messenger), get Omega 3 eggs and grass fed beef. Also to get the ratio back to normal you may need to up your intake of Omega 3s from Fish oil. The only other major factor would be insulin, but if you are eating Paleo then you shouldn't have any sugar problems.

Garrett Smith
03-02-2008, 06:32 PM
If the issue was from nuts, I would think you could see effects within a week of strict avoidance.

When you re-introduce them, eat A LOT of them and pay attention to what happens for that day and the next.

Brad Davis
03-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Thanks Mike & Dr. G.

After doing a little reading today, I am thoroughly confused, though, and have more questions. It seems like there are three issues with nuts: high Omega 6:3 ratio, anti-nutrients, and allergies.

According to nutritiondata, walnuts have a Omega 6:3 ratio of about 4. Almonds are much higher and macadamia nuts are about 7. Avocados are about 15 and olive oil is about 13. Coconut oil is listed has having Omega 6, but no Omega 3 so its ratio approaches infinity.

Why are we more concerned about eating walnuts and mac nuts than avocados, olive oil, and coconut oil? Do nuts have more anti-nutrients and/or likelihood to cause allergies?

I will still try the nut avoidance because of the possible allergy and anti-nutrients.

Are there any problems with adding ground flaxseeds? (particular type of Omega-6 (AA?), allergies, anti-nutrients, etc.)

Oh yeah, one more thing. I've been taking FlameOut (opinions on this?) for a couple of months and it has 4600mg of Omega-3 mostly as DHA. Would fish oil above that be an ok idea?

Thanks again and sorry for all the questions.

Garrett Smith
03-03-2008, 07:24 AM
Brad,
If people are sourcing their meats right, not eating too many nuts/seeds (common in modern Paleo folks), and taking their fish oil, I don't concern myself with the O6:O3 ratios of food. That's a bit too Zone-ish thinking for me.

The anti-nutrient and allergy issues with nuts is a definite concern.

I don't think you need any more fish oil than what you're taking. What is your total EPA+DHA per day? As far as Flameout, I don't like the use of safflower oil based CLA isomers--better to get it from grassfed red meat and raw dairy fat, IMO.

Mike ODonnell
03-03-2008, 07:45 AM
This is why Zone addicts have support groups! Ha.

I just dont eat nuts for the most part....and I found I feel a hell of alot better. Now when I eat them I can feel inflammation in my joints more. So except for the occasional almond butter fix, pretty much my fats are mostly monounsat and healthy sat. Great thing about IF is I am not trying to shove 3000cal of fat down my throat. (Oh yeah, fasting has also shown to improve inflammation levels)

Ground flaxseeds can have some benefit, I add them in time to time. They are an Omega 3 but higher up the conversion chain. Fish oil as EPA/DHA is at the bottom of the chain. So alot of Flaxseeds downconverts into very little EPA/DHA. (EPA is the main inflammation blocker...DHA has more brain function benefits) But I know many arthritis patients who swear by a couple tablespoons of ground flaxseed a day. So what ever works for you!

Brad Davis
03-05-2008, 08:38 AM
Been out of town a couple of days.

Thanks again Dr. G and Mike!

I'm trying to strictly avoid nuts and go from there.