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Dan Heaney
02-05-2008, 11:25 AM
Does anyone go all out Paleo but include dariy? I elminated it for a week or so and hanen't noticed a difference in how I feel. Just wondering if anyone has anything non Paleo they just won't give up. I'm thinking about throwing it back in the mix. Probably just a cup or so of Cottage Cheese a day

Mike ODonnell
02-05-2008, 12:45 PM
Dairy is rare in my book...usually only cheese. But too much give me breathing issues...as in exercise enduced asthma reactions (which funny enough I never had issues with until I got completely off dairy for a long time as I used to drink tons of milk as a kid...and now know why I had sinusitus issues)....so hence I try not to have it that much. Milk is out of the question in my book. Love whole butter though. Eggs occasionally. Like anything....best idea is always moderation and rotation (don't have it every day).

Garrett Smith
02-05-2008, 12:58 PM
I do include some butter, always organic. On rare occasions I have raw goat's milk or cheese.

Cheat meals, now that's a whole different area.

Almost forgot, supposedly it takes dairy three full weeks to completely get out of your system for you to notice a significant difference in your hypersensitivity reactions upon re-introduction.

I do think that pasteurized cottage cheese (nearly all casein) is about one of the worst dairy foods you could choose to keep in your diet.

Nikki Young
02-05-2008, 12:59 PM
Sometimes i'll have something which contains dairy, like cheese or milk chocolate. It always creates mucous the next day, and throughout the day i'm spitting out mucous.. nice i know.

I noticed the same effects as Mike, when i was a teenager i don't think i ever drank less than 1ltr of milk a day, i loved it.. Never had mucous after effects though, but i did have sinus problems. After i completely ditched dairy (99% anyway), i've started having the mucous problems when i do eat dairy.

Kevin Perry
02-05-2008, 01:20 PM
I currently drink milk every once in a while. Cheese will give me problems and I normally get very sick afterwards with eating it, I try to stay away from all other types of dairy with the exception of the occasional ice cream treat or frapachino. Cheese is a definite problem for me though...

John Alston
02-05-2008, 01:46 PM
I drink whole effin' milk, never reduced fat.

Tirzah Harper
02-05-2008, 04:10 PM
FWIW my husband is lactose-sensitive or whatever - gets lots of mucous from it, okay - and he noticed improvements continuing for a YEAR after dropping milk and most other dairy from his diet.
Cultured dairy, now, he can eat moderate amounts of yogurt & kefir without mucous issues. But milk, cream, especially ice cream - all BAD.

I don't notice any difference in how I feel with or without dairy.

Steve Liberati
02-05-2008, 05:00 PM
Although I'm lactose intolerant, I've just found a spot in the city that sells organic raw milk (comes from Amish country). Haven't had regular milk for the longest time for the obvious reasons but so far I haven't had a problem with digestion (but time will tell...just bought some today). Still surprised what happened. Bought a gallon of raw milk ($5.00), a small container of nuts and a small package of fresh sno peas. Went to the register to check out but had no idea they accepted cash only (bill came to $10.00). Reached in my pocket and only had $6.00 on me. Instead of taking stuff out, the owner said don't worry about it, "just pay me next time." Couldn't believe it...how often does that happen? Note, it was my first time there.

Patrick Donnelly
02-05-2008, 05:01 PM
I do think that pasteurized cottage cheese (nearly all casein) is about one of the worst dairy foods you could choose to keep in your diet.

Agreed. When I cut my dairy back to only cottage cheese, 2-3 times per week, I had the most terrible sniffles. That went away after cutting it out. Now the only dairy I eat is ice cream, once every 4-5 days. Probably more often than I should have it, but it tastes so damn good.

Grain is out entirely. Legumes are limited to green beans when my mom prepares them for dinner.

Dan Heaney
02-05-2008, 06:19 PM
I guess I'll hold out a for a while and see if I notice any changes. It's been over a week and during that time I have been sick so maybe that's why I havn't noticed anything.

Jay Cohen
02-06-2008, 02:22 AM
Although I'm lactose intolerant, I've just found a spot in the city that sells organic raw milk (comes from Amish country). Haven't had regular milk for the longest time for the obvious reasons but so far I haven't had a problem with digestion (but time will tell...just bought some today). Still surprised what happened. Bought a gallon of raw milk ($5.00), a small container of nuts and a small package of fresh sno peas. Went to the register to check out but had no idea they accepted cash only (bill came to $10.00). Reached in my pocket and only had $6.00 on me. Instead of taking stuff out, the owner said don't worry about it, "just pay me next time." Couldn't believe it...how often does that happen? Note, it was my first time there.

Steve;
I'm finding those types of people/service/attitude more and more as I move away from the "mainstream consumerism" and back to more of the basic down home, grown/made localism(sp). I know that sounds corny, and I do find some "big" companies going out of the there way to provide killer service, but nothing beats spending your money or time with local folks that truly appreciate it. Talk about a warm and fuzzy feeling, but I'm preaching to the choir, the work you do with disadvantage youth must give you tremendous satisfaction.
Jay

Allen Yeh
02-06-2008, 04:23 AM
I recently decided to cut coffee out of my diet because for a while I was doing the whole coffee + non whipped heavy cream as per Lights Out. I'm think I'm not quite lactose intolerant but I am lactose sensitive. Butter, whey, and a little cheese is usually ok, but heavy cream, ice cream, milk makes me really gassy (when I'm awake and asleep so my wife says).

As a side note I'm Chinese and only recently read some stuff claiming that Asian's are typically lactose intolerant/sensitive and that is when I decided to cut the coffee + cream out to do my own little experiment. (I can't stand coffee black). It's been about 2 months now and keep an eye on what dairy I put in me.

sarena kopciel
02-06-2008, 04:25 AM
I once again started a bit of raw/sometimes grass fed milk plain yogurt about a week or two ago. Now I realize I am all mucousy and wonder if its related t the dairy or something else.

I did order a 1/2 gallon of raw goats milk to make my own yogurt. Will try and see.

Gave up dairy about 14/15 years ago on a dare for a week which turned me in to a vegetarian for 14 yrs!! Thats been gone for 1.5 yrs bu stayed without the dairy! So I thought maybe I would give it a try. Just easy to eat a yogurt on the go!!

Garrett Smith
02-06-2008, 05:52 AM
Dan,
If you just have a minor cold, believe it or not, that could very well be your body getting rid of all the mucousy junk sitting around in your system. Phlegm/mucous isn't just in our sinuses/nose.

Definitely give the no dairy thing a couple of weeks more after your cold is gone.

Mike ODonnell
02-06-2008, 05:59 AM
Serena,

I will put money on that mucous is all related to dairy. Dit the dairy and see what happens....the only way to find out. But I have the exact same issue....too much dairy get the mucous going. Not pleasant.

Garrett Smith
02-06-2008, 09:51 AM
Here's a nice page talking about dairy and phlegm in Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM). (http://books.google.com/books?id=SWEwiMhSO-gC&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=dairy+phlegm+tcm&source=web&ots=1NG7i9Zha7&sig=vqYyx4I3Vj6ui7dk7Mbvay2w9LE#PPA149,M1)

John Alston
02-07-2008, 10:14 AM
So what's a good milk alternative- something that you will get your protein and fat from, that's sold lots of places and isn't that pricey?
I did a quart of milk yesterday, and it pushed me over the mucus limit, but I'm ata loss for an easy replacement.
If you say soy milk, you're asking for nard shots.

Mike ODonnell
02-07-2008, 10:28 AM
If you say soy milk, you're asking for nard shots.

Drink enough soy and you won't have to worry about that....as your nards will disappear! Ha!

sarena kopciel
02-07-2008, 10:28 AM
Coconut milk (high in fat/not so protein)

MOD--I think the dairy addition was stupid. Gonna ditch it again!! Oh well it would have made life a bit easier!

Garrett Smith
02-07-2008, 12:58 PM
John,
Maybe kefir will fit the bill you're looking for.

The culturing makes it produces less phlegm, it also reduces the sugars somewhat. It's basically thin yogurt with more health benefits.

It has even become available at Trader Joe's recently, even if it is at 1% milkfat (not whole). A quart goes for $2-something, if I remember correctly. Organic whole milk kefir (http://www.lifeway.net/product/owmk.php) is available under the Lifeway brand, places like Whole Foods carry that brand for sure.

There's a start, maybe it will help.

John Alston
02-07-2008, 01:18 PM
Thanks, G. I remember not liking it, but at 2 bucks a quart, I'll try it out, especially if I can find the full fat real-deal.

Garrett Smith
02-07-2008, 01:58 PM
A little stevia (or other sweetener of choice) and some cocoa powder can go a long way in dressing it up.

Steve Liberati
02-07-2008, 02:58 PM
John,
Maybe kefir will fit the bill you're looking for.

The culturing makes it produces less phlegm, it also reduces the sugars somewhat. It's basically thin yogurt with more health benefits.

It has even become available at Trader Joe's recently, even if it is at 1% milkfat (not whole). A quart goes for $2-something, if I remember correctly. Organic whole milk kefir (http://www.lifeway.net/product/owmk.php) is available under the Lifeway brand, places like Whole Foods carry that brand for sure.

There's a start, maybe it will help.

Dr. G,
Is a culture starter absolutely necessary to make kefir from raw milk?
Recently scored a source for raw milk and anxious to try making a batch of homemade kefir myself. Can it be done without the starter kit?
Thanks,
Steve

PS Not all mucus is bad and toxic. Good mucus coats and protects the interior lining of the digestive tract and is an essential part of a healthy inner ecosystem. Which by the way I learned from reading the Body Ecology Diet by Donna Gates. If you didn't read this one or you do not subscribe to her free newsletter you are greatly missing out.

Garrett Smith
02-07-2008, 04:08 PM
Steve,
I completely agree, some mucus is necessary. Not being able to breathe or constantly hacking up is a sign that there is too much.

No, culture starter is not necessary for making kefir from raw milk. Put the raw milk into a *clean* glass jar, seal the lid on tight, and put it into a dark closet, preferably around 68 degrees. Then wait. Depending on your tastes and the temperature of the closet, you might be waiting anywhere from 12-36 hours. Obviously, higher temps need less time to culture as it happens faster.

Using a clear glass container is helpful, as some quick swirls of the kefir-in-the-making will show you how much culturing/thickening is taking place. It's a lot better than having to open the jar to check and adding more oxygen to the mix.

This is the same method I told Kelly Moore about, I don't know if she is using it or not.

Once you're used to kefir and/or typical "cultured" smells, you'll know right off if the batch is good. I've personally never had a batch go bad.

Steve Liberati
02-07-2008, 06:28 PM
Thanks Dr. G! Always most helpful.

The raw milk produced enough flem the day after to keep it dairy on my list of foods to avoid (although I'm also fighting the flu right now which could also be partially to blame). Hopefully the kefir does my body good.

Now I just have to keep telling myself I'm not drinking bad milk (or else this might be an experiment gone awfully bad). Fingers crossed lol.

Jane Michel
02-07-2008, 11:17 PM
I recently decided to cut coffee out of my diet because for a while I was doing the whole coffee + non whipped heavy cream as per Lights Out. I'm think I'm not quite lactose intolerant but I am lactose sensitive. Butter, whey, and a little cheese is usually ok, but heavy cream, ice cream, milk makes me really gassy (when I'm awake and asleep so my wife says).

As a side note I'm Chinese and only recently read some stuff claiming that Asian's are typically lactose intolerant/sensitive and that is when I decided to cut the coffee + cream out to do my own little experiment. (I can't stand coffee black). It's been about 2 months now and keep an eye on what dairy I put in me.

Hey Allen I read that too! However I think I'm lactose tolerant and lactose insensitive... maybe because mom gave us lots of milk since young. Now I take dairy products only 1-3 times a month only because of the Paleo Diet. If there was raw milk in my area I'd consider adding it back though!

sarena kopciel
02-08-2008, 04:21 AM
I just found a source for raw goats milk by order only. Ordered 1 quart and 1 of their raw goat yogurt. gonna try to make my own yogurt from it when I get it!! Will see. If it works out, I will bring ya Steve next time I see ya!
Hope you feeling better Steve! Those boys need you

Steve Liberati
02-08-2008, 05:08 AM
Thanks Sarena for your thoughtfulness. Yeah, I honestly can't tell you the last time I was sick...but blame myself for beating my body up this past weekend in Vegas. Good thing is that it took me only a day or two to fight it off (still not 100% myself though). Just trying to take it easy this week, drink lots of fluids and help my body get back to normal.

By the way, just wanted to let you know that the Whole Foods in Moorestown also sells raw goats milk (and they sell GT Synergy Kombucha for only $3.00 a bottle!). I haven't bought it there myself but a friend who lives out there told me about it. If you can find it local though, that is the way to go.

Steve

John Alston
02-08-2008, 06:46 AM
Man, can't find any Kefir that isn't both low fat (crap!) and high sugar (wtf?). Just started but will keep looking.
You know, it's sad, with the Atkins/low carb craze, all it seemed to lead to was lots of shitty snack bars being available, but lowering the sugar in yogurt products? No progress.

sarena kopciel
02-08-2008, 10:54 AM
Man, can't find any Kefir that isn't both low fat (crap!) and high sugar (wtf?). Just started but will keep looking.
You know, it's sad, with the Atkins/low carb craze, all it seemed to lead to was lots of shitty snack bars being available, but lowering the sugar in yogurt products? No progress.

Check out the link on mt baker crossfit about yogurt and sugar!
http://mtbakercrossfit.blogspot.com/2008/01/coming-soon-my-newest-rant-poisoning-of.html

Sam Cannons
02-12-2008, 11:05 PM
Sorry to chime in so late but, Dr G what the problem with the pasteurized cottage cheese ?

Thanks

sarena kopciel
02-13-2008, 04:02 AM
Thanks, G. I remember not liking it, but at 2 bucks a quart, I'll try it out, especially if I can find the full fat real-deal.

Hey I found the full fat Organic kind yesterday at WHole Foods in Chelsea! I actually liked too!

Garrett Smith
02-13-2008, 04:23 AM
Sam,
Cottage cheese is nearly all casein.

Casein is tough to digest, hence the whole BBing idea of "slow release" protein.

In terms of producing phlegm, the casein is the major culprit.

If there's anything that the whole crazy "China Study" may have demonstrated, it is that casein (especially processed, powdered casein) isn't very good for anyone.

Sam Cannons
02-17-2008, 04:30 PM
Dam that kind of sucks, on of my favourite snacks was a chunk of papaya and cottage cheese with macadamia nuts.

Dan Heaney
02-18-2008, 02:49 AM
Dam that kind of sucks, on of my favourite snacks was a chunk of papaya and cottage cheese with macadamia nuts.

Me too! I really like it with grapes but I also notice a difference from not eating dairy. I didn't think I was until I had some Ice Cream Wed and after I felt like I was having trouble breathing and phlemy! (if that's a word). I had a brutal cheat day yesterday so I expect to fell terrible all day.

Troy Archie
02-18-2008, 08:45 AM
I enjoy a peice of brie or camembert every couple days. They're probably the worst kind for me to eat but to hell with it, I thoroughly enjoy it and only buy the expensive stuff. Cheese is my chocolate.

Sam Cannons
02-18-2008, 03:07 PM
To be honest i dont really notice a difference.

Kelly Moore
02-19-2008, 10:05 AM
Hi Steve and Dr G,

I use kefir grains (purchased from my Amish farmer) to make raw milk kefir and coconut water kefir. Much better than the powdered stuff - these little guys just keep reproducing! I started with 2 tablespoons and it quickly grew to a bunch as big as my fist. I had so many I had to eat most of them rather than let them take over my refrigerator/freezer/counter space.

Garrett Smith
02-19-2008, 10:40 AM
Kelly,
I'm actually not very familiar with the practical usage of kefir grains at all...I'm assuming from what you're saying that the grains reproduce in a similar manner to kombucha "mushrooms"?

Kelly Moore
02-19-2008, 11:23 AM
Hi Garrett - yes, they are alive and keep growing like the kombucha mushroom except that they look like tiny cauliflowers.

Steve Liberati
02-19-2008, 05:06 PM
Not sure about the grains but quickly turning into a big fan of raw milk kefir. Find it is a real treat when blended with frozen berries and a drop of stevia. I'm still curious to find out the nutritional information for a glass of raw milk kefir. Searched the net but came up short (I know the sugar content is neglible since the lactose in it gets broken down by the fermentation process).

Anyway, curious Kelly, what does the grains taste like? dried yogurt snacks?

Michael Novicky
02-21-2008, 03:30 PM
so if i have 3/4 a cup of cottage cheese with 3 eggs every morning is that bad for me and my diet. i guess its regulat or pasturized cottage cheese 1%, i use it to get my calcium and to get more calories in the morning so im fuller longer. but is this little bit ok?

Garrett Smith
02-21-2008, 04:30 PM
Michael,
As to whether that amount is okay, it depends on the person and how they feel when they go off of dairy for a while and then re-introduce it.

Having two of the major food allergy/hypersensitivity groups every morning for breakfast isn't a great idea. More variety or using less allergenic foods would be a smart move.

Michael Novicky
02-21-2008, 07:01 PM
thanks, i also just read that scrambling your eggs makes them bad for you due to something with the oxydation of the cholesterol, so i think i am just going to eat 3 hard boiled and get some protein from another source like tuna, a protein shake, or eat a bunch of fruit. thank you for the replt though