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Craig Van De Walker
03-10-2008, 07:14 PM
I am pretty lean my thickest of 7 site skinfolds is 5mm several are at 3mm. 6ft 177lbs.
I had a glucose machine at the office today and got the following results
96 9am 14 hrs fasting
98 10 am 15 hrs fasting
104 11am 16hrs
worked out ~45 min low rep DL, squats, pullups, pushups
86 post workout @13:30
97 15:00 20 hour fasting
ate 4 block meal salmon, canola oil, oatmeal (I know not Paleo) ate at my desk 1520-1550
142 glucose at 1610, 20 min after meal finished
97 @1630

When I have labs drawn my insulin is below lab parameters <2, glucose is usually high 80s to low 90s, HbA1C is 5.4, trig 43 (lab normal <145). I normally eat close to Paleo with relatively low carbs maybe 22 blocks protein 10 blocks carbs and lots of fat est 3-4x. I assumed my glucose would be lower like in th 70-80 range.

I find it strange that my glucose rises the longer I fast, I have not checked it first thing in the morning yet I assume it is even lower but just a guess. Is this normal?

sarena kopciel
03-10-2008, 07:25 PM
I am pretty lean my thickest of 7 site skinfolds is 5mm several are at 3mm. 6ft 177lbs.
I had a glucose machine at the office today and got the following results
96 9am 14 hrs fasting
98 10 am 15 hrs fasting
104 11am 16hrs
worked out ~45 min low rep DL, squats, pullups, pushups
86 post workout @13:30
97 15:00 20 hour fasting
ate 4 block meal salmon, canola oil, oatmeal (I know not Paleo) ate at my desk 1520-1550
142 glucose at 1610, 20 min after meal finished
97 @1630

When I have labs drawn my insulin is below lab parameters <2, glucose is usually high 80s to low 90s, HbA1C is 5.4, trig 43 (lab normal <145). I normally eat close to Paleo with relatively low carbs maybe 22 blocks protein 10 blocks carbs and lots of fat est 3-4x. I assumed my glucose would be lower like in th 70-80 range.

I find it strange that my glucose rises the longer I fast, I have not checked it first thing in the morning yet I assume it is even lower but just a guess. Is this normal?

Stress of fasting??

Craig Van De Walker
03-11-2008, 05:29 AM
OK at 5am 10 hours since last meal glucose was 88 a little better.

Craig Van De Walker
03-11-2008, 03:56 PM
For the heck of it I did frequent glucose readings today non-fasting day and here are the results:

88 glucose 5:00am (10hours since last meal)
93 6:30am (11.5 hrs since last meal)

4 block meal 6:45am, worked out 7:10-7:40

87 8:10am
96 9:15

3 block meal 10:20-40

104 11:20am
110 12:25 My little finger is looking pretty beat up from doing all these sticks

4 block protein and fat 3 blocks carbs @13:20-40

99 @15:10
97 @15:55

Robb Wolf
03-11-2008, 06:27 PM
Craig-
I think Sarena hit it...likely a bit too much stress. All of this stuff is so new it's tough to know what is the "right" way to go but if you add fasting to poor or inadequate sleep and or a stressful environment that could be enough to get a dose of cortisol and get that blood sugar up. keeping an eye on the hb1ac is good for ferreting this out.

Keep us posted!

sarena kopciel
03-12-2008, 04:05 AM
Craig-
I think Sarena hit it...likely a bit too much stress. All of this stuff is so new it's tough to know what is the "right" way to go but if you add fasting to poor or inadequate sleep and or a stressful environment that could be enough to get a dose of cortisol and get that blood sugar up. keeping an eye on the hb1ac is good for ferreting this out.

Keep us posted!

As you know thats what (STRESS) I am basing that last round of lab work results on!! Ha1c was fine so the simple blood glucose is a goner iMHO!!

Craig Van De Walker
03-16-2008, 07:29 AM
Results from another day of glucose testing. Not sure if this thread really still belongs under IF section or not, but.

Night before I went to Dairy Queen and had a pecan cluster blizzard, about 500-600 cals of dairy and sugar laden delight. (I have not had one of these for almost a year). The next day...

83@550
2cups black coffee 6-730
83@730
ate 3blocks oats/berries/protein/flax meal ~740
short w/o
89@1000
ate 4block meat/veggies/laura bar ~1130
87@1240
1330pm Movies kettle corn, steak (yes I brought leftover steak into the theater in a zip lock bag and ate it), diet coke est 4 blocks
103@ 1630
ate dinner steak, cauliflower, yam ~5blocks ~1900/7pm
93@ 2130/930pm
ate 1 block flax berries protein powder

There is one big difference in that this was a relatively relaxing day off work! The other time when I was fasting and had levels I did not like was a day at work which is usually pretty high stress.

Of particular interest to me was that even my postprandial readings were better than fasting levels the other day. This is definitely not a normal day for me as I had many non-paleo/zone non-favorable carbs.

Garrett Smith
03-16-2008, 08:33 AM
I must say that your readings after the movies (and Diet Coke) are pretty darn interesting.

Robb Wolf
03-16-2008, 08:46 AM
Craig-
A more consistent eatign pattern OR somehting like a compressed feeeding window (last meal at 5pm, next meal at 8am) or somehting like that may be a better option. We are not wired for chronic stress (like damn dirty work!) and fastign can certianly exacerbate that.

Stuart Mather
03-17-2008, 04:01 AM
how long have you been Int. fasting Craig? And how has your fasting schedule changed in that time?

Stuart

Craig Van De Walker
03-17-2008, 06:58 AM
Stuart,
Maybe a month not every day maybe 4 days a week roughly 16-20 hours. No problem with the hunger, I am very busy during the day so I don't much think about it. I have been eating Paleo a getting <80 grams carb a day for about two months. I assumed my blood sugar would be fairly low but it was not. The last day posted was not representative of my normal diet but I found it of interest that my sugar was so much better. I wonder if I may have been to strict for too long and my body needed to replenish, I may be just a little too lean. Heck after the huge amount of sugar coated kettle corn I thought my glucose would be >150, it was only 103?

Garret, I agree somewhat confusing results compared to what I expected.

Robb, Thanks, I think I am going to try that. I am not going to eat like the other day but I think I may relax things and allow my weight to drift up a touch.

Thanks all for the comments. I plan to take a look at this down the road and see where I am at.

Craig Van De Walker
03-21-2008, 11:19 AM
Last few days have relaxed and let my carbs drift up to 100-150 grams a day and my weight drift up about 4 lbs. I have not IF'd just pretty much zoned with mainly paleo food.

glucose readings last food 20:00/8pm night before
94 6am
2cc coffee, short low rep strength workout
90 730
82 9am
86 10 am
ate 3 block meal 4x fat salmon, olive oil, 1 pint strawberries 10-1015
94 11am

This is more along the lines of what I hoped my glucose was doing before

Craig Van De Walker
07-10-2008, 03:47 PM
Update for the heck of it. I have purposefully put on a few pounds but am still pretty lean up to ~183 today I checked my glucose a few times

6 am coffee, oatmeal with berries, protein mix and yogurt
1020 glucose 69 (I was getting a little hungry but did not feel like I HAD to eat) ate natto (fermented soybeans) cottage cheese.
1125 glucose 83
1230 ate tai food, shrimp salad, tofu soup, and a salad roll
1335 glucose 82 1400-1500 worked out
1510 glucose 78
I am now going to get a snack and off to a meeting. Not exactly sure what to make of it except that earlier I may have been a little too lean and causing some hormonal issues during my IF'ing that caused my glucose to actually be higher than if I ate regularly. The experiment that is my life continues...

Craig Van De Walker
08-27-2008, 12:01 PM
Update well I started looking into this issue when I was having relatively high fasting glucose reading while eating paleo, very low carbs and IF'ing

The long and short is when I (experiment of one) eat extremely low carb my glucose runs higher than I feel it should (my preconceived notion it should run about 80), my fasting had been in the low 90's. I started eating more carbs and non-paleo ones and my glucose runs lower and in fact downright hypoglycemic. Yesterday for example.

15hrs fasting
830 glucose=93 then ate 2 eggs, sausage 2 large pancakes 102 grams carbs
900 69
930 76
1000 97
1035 68
1110 96
1120
ate 2 eggs, stir fry banana, nectarine 550 cals 53 grams carbs
1215 81
walked 2 miles
1255 48 but I feel absolutely fine
1340=LO-too low to measure
1345 34 I still feel fine!
1400 ate natto, oatmeal 300 cals 40 grams carb
1500 59 Feel fine
1700 115 time for dinner brocoli, sweet pot, chicken didn't bring meter home so no more checking


Today fasting 14 hrs
7 am=65 glucose
800=59
850 LO error message below machine limit
905 another machine=21
955=39
1105=33 after 18hrs fasting
ate sardines, natto, egg 7grams carbs. So far NO signs and symptoms of low blood sugar not hungry either?
1155=69

Thought experiment-
Anyone have a clue what is going on. Is my liver or pancreas broken? I spoke to my naturopath yesterday and he thought I had eaten so clean for so long that when I eat a carb load any insulin at all causes a spongelike response to any circulating glucose. My question is does anyone have any idea how I can function with a glucose so low. Granted most machine algorithms are not accurate probably much below 50 or so but I know when I get a reading of 21 or "too low to register" it is darned low. By the way my insulin normally reads "below lab limits" on a fasting test.

BTW I am getting ready to eat a big lunch while this post peculates.

And yes I thought about machine error and have switched out machines more than once for funny results as well as cuvette lots and QC'd the machines.

Had large lunch of fajitas did not eat the rice but did have some corn tortillas. Est 800 cals ~100 grams carbs at 1230
1330=86
1430=73
1530=82
Done sticking myself for the day will have a salad with fish for dinner enough carbs for the day. My fingers are looking pretty ugly after all of the stick last couple of days.

Allen Yeh
08-28-2008, 04:30 AM
I am not very knowledgable in this realm at all but I thought this was an interesting article talking about insulin and glucose.

http://www.figureathlete.com/article/diet_and_nutrition/maximizing_nutrient_partitioning_the_insulin_myth

Craig Van De Walker
08-28-2008, 07:15 AM
Allen,
Thanks that was a great article. This article also gets at another question I had posted about staying too lean and the possible effects of hypoglycemia and excessive insulin sensitivity. I just have not found a lot of research about how insulin and glucose actually act on healthy athletes. According to what I have read and discussed with some physicians I work with lean healthy people may be susceptible to reactive hypoglycemia but everything I have read indicates I should have lost consciousness or had all sorts of symptoms with not only the degree of hypoglycemia but the length of time I had it. The funny thing is I started all of this poking around because my fasting glucoses had been so high (in the 90s, when I expected them below 80) when I was following a low carb paleo diet for a long time. My HbA1C though, was fine at 5.1.

As you can see after re-introducing higher carbs in my diet and high GL/GI carbs at that my glucose hit the floor especially while IF'ing as well as some "asymptomatic reactive hypoglycemia", but I did not implode with low blood sugar. In fact low blood sugar did not seem to elicit much hunger either. I have much more experimenting to do. I can only assume that my brain is relatively adept at running on ketone bodies, during my hypoglycemia. I did find some studies where they elicited hypoglycemia in subject who melted down long before their glucose hit the level I was at???