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Sam Cannons
03-18-2008, 10:58 PM
I searched around the archives but couldn't see much on it, is there a significant difference between Cod Liver Oil and Fish Oil if all the DHA and EPA levels are the same ?

Thanks

Steve Liberati
03-19-2008, 03:44 AM
I believe the biggest difference is that CLO contains Vit D where fish oil does not. Vitamin D can only naturally be obtained from the sun hence the reason most ppl take CLO in the winter.

Mike ODonnell
03-19-2008, 07:53 AM
Steve is right about the Vit A&D. You don't want to overdo those vitamins....as you can poison yourself with too much. I'd stick with Fish Oil for summertime unless you don't go outside at all.

Garrett Smith
03-19-2008, 09:28 AM
I personally take CLO year-round, to the tune of 20,000 IU of A and 2,000 IU of D a day, from the Green Pastures Blue Ice Therapeutics Gold liquid (which I carry for my patients). Those doses aren't going to ever be an issue, IMO.

I believe the fear of vitamin D overdose is way overblown. Also, comparing toxicity levels of synthetic A & D (which is what nearly every study is done on) and CLO A & D is totally comparing drugs to food. It just doesn't work.

Articles:
The Miracle of Vitamin D (http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitamindmiracle.html)

Vitamin A, Vitamin D and Cod Liver Oil: Some Clarifications (http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/clarifications.html)
We have pointed out that concerns about vitamin A toxicity are exaggerated. While some forms of synthetic vitamin A found in supplements can be toxic at only moderately high doses, fat-soluble vitamin A naturally found in foods like cod liver oil, liver, and butterfat is safe at up to ten times the doses of water-soluble, solidified, and emulsified vitamin A found in some supplements that produce toxicity.(1) Additionally, the vitamin D found in cod liver oil and butterfat from pasture-raised animals protects against vitamin A toxicity, and allows one to consume a much higher amount of vitamin A before it becomes toxic.(1-3)

I'm not worried, personally. Considering the massive amounts of vitamin D that the body can make from proper sun exposure (assuming adequate levels of cholesterol in the system), 2000 units is a drop in the bucket. I still make sure to get as much morning and/or afternoon sun as I can, without getting burned.

Put your energy into not taking too much synthetic beta-carotene and synthetic A & D before you start worrying about ODing on CLO!

Sam Cannons
03-19-2008, 06:26 PM
Thanks for the inputs, the reason i ask is that fish oil is very expensive in Australia and CLO is significantly cheaper. I live in North Queensland were it is sunny and hot all year round. Winter only gets down to about 25c so its hardly a colder season.

Michael Miller
03-20-2008, 02:40 PM
I was wondering the same thing about vit D, especially sense i have 400IUs in my New Chapter Multi, as well as the 400IUs in the Healthfood store brand of Vit D supp i am taking. The healthfood store supp says its comming from fish liver oil, but with all the scare about toxicity i was thinking of just trying to get 10-15 mins of morning and afternoon sun exposure per day, that way i wouldnt have to always be monitoring my vit D levels. The vit D issue has always been a big concern of mine because i have ocular albinism, am naturally fair skinned, never tan, and burn easily in the sun.

Mike ODonnell
03-20-2008, 03:19 PM
I'm Irish...never take vitamin D...and just do small doses in the sun to build up tolerance. I think that is really the only natural solution. 10 min a day one week....15 min a day the next week....etc. Letting the body adapt to the "stress" of being out in the sun. Who knows...might be a tanned god by summers end. Of course we are all different but I know my ability to be in the sun always improves when I get more repeated exposure even if in small doses. The key is to not get burnt!

Garrett Smith
03-20-2008, 03:29 PM
Michael,
Did you read the links I posted? It's really tough to OD on vitamin D in CLO, especially when it is together with vitamin A.

If you are worried though, just go the sunshine route and don't get burned.

Michael Miller
03-21-2008, 01:24 AM
Hey Mike, part Irish here too! I hear you enjoy a Guinness now and then...i used to be a Smithwicks man myself :) The "sun god" thing would be cool!

Doc G, i just finished it...it makes sense, i will probly go ahead and keep the D supp along with getting some morning and afternoon rays.

By the way, what is considered "burned" anyway? I have had my skin stay the slightest bit pink the rest of the day after 15 mins of sun...it went away by the next day, would that be considered burned? I know Mercola says stay in the sun tell your skin begins to turn the lightest pink then get out.

Garrett Smith
03-21-2008, 06:09 AM
Mike,
Mercola's advice sounds good. You may have a tougher time with that standard due to your complexion.

As long as I'm in the sun during those pre-10am and post 3-4pm hours, I don't worry at all (and I'm not a sun god, no way).

sarena kopciel
03-25-2008, 06:06 PM
interesting article about CLO use as an alternative to NSAIDs
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7307298.stm

Garrett Smith
03-25-2008, 09:03 PM
Nice link.

Now the researchers simply have to try to separate out which part of the CLO had the "most" effect--A, D, EPA, DHA, or total omega-3s...the stupid thing is that they would likely use synthetic versions to try to comparatively test against the CLO "components". Bah.

Daniel Christensen
04-15-2008, 12:20 AM
I experience upset stomach side-effect of CLO, especially if taken in the morning. Start with a lower dose and not in the mornings or is it a mutter of brand or something else?

Garrett Smith
04-15-2008, 06:34 AM
Could be brand, could be that you simply need to take it with food.

Daniel Christensen
04-17-2008, 12:08 AM
Cheers - will experiment and see what works.

Mike ODonnell
04-17-2008, 09:28 AM
interesting article about CLO use as an alternative to NSAIDs
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7307298.stm

also I believe that they both use some of the same enzymes....so actually people using NSAIDs will not get real relief from taking fish oil unless they lower or remove the NSAIDs all together....just something I remember reading about a long time ago.....

Chris Longley
04-22-2008, 02:20 AM
This is really interesting stuff.

I'd been taking Fish Oil in high doses for month's although the benefits were there according to Dr Sear's Eicosanoid Status Report and my athletic improvements, I never really "felt" that much better.

I get mild S.A.D and in the UK the good weather can be sporadic to say the least so I started taking Vitamin D as a stand alone. No difference (yes, turns out the Vit D was synthetic).

This last week I've added CLO into the mix and already I "feel" much better. Better sence of wellbeing, better sleep etc.

Currently I've stopped Fish Oil supplementation, but is there any benefit to taking this as well as the CLO to up the n3 ratios?

Great Vitamin D article by the way Garrett - interesting part about needing to sunbathe between 10am and 2pm to get enough Vit D via sunlight exposure.

Garrett Smith
04-22-2008, 11:00 AM
Chris,
Great observation.

One can absolutely take them both. Depending on the type of CLO one gets (high or low in EPA/DHA), it might be necessary.

The 10am - 2pm exposure time is interesting. Being that I'm really pale and I live in Tucson (32 degrees latitude), I definitely get a bit burned if I'm out much during the 10 - 2 hours. I spend a significant amount of time in the sun in the earlier morning (before 10) and often in the afternoon (after 3) and I don't get burned at all that way. I take 2000iu of CLO vit. D a day on top of any sun exposure I can manage. Here's hoping it's enough!

Darryl Shaw
04-23-2008, 06:55 AM
In autumn/winter I take 10ml of regular Seven Seas cod liver oil a day to ensure I'm getting enough vitamin D and in spring/summer I switch to pure fish oil so I'm not overdosing on it when it's sunny.

Michael Miller
05-03-2008, 06:27 AM
Dr G, would the daily dose of CLO you take be pretty close to what you would recommend for most people? I was reading on the Weston A. Price site that you could go even higher than that, up to 90,000IUs vit A for a few weeks if you were dealing with stress and/or some type of illness.

I just ordered some Green Pastures Blue Ice Therapeutics Gold in Cinnamon Tingle, never tried it before but it sounded good. It's much higher in A&D than what i use now, plus it's cheaper and will last longer!

Garrett Smith
05-03-2008, 05:56 PM
I do 2000iu a day, winter or summer, and I try to get as much sun exposure as possible. I figure if I am getting the CLO vit. D, then my body will simply make less (if it needs to) from the sun exposure. The body is smart that way.

I'm yet to see someone OD on vitamin D from CLO. As long as people don't go crazy with it, I don't see much of a problem (in my practice or from the literature). 2000iu is not going nuts at all, IMO.

People get toxic from synthetic D3 all the time. I stay far away from that stuff.