PDA

View Full Version : Huge drop in body temperature?


Jane Michel
03-25-2008, 06:14 AM
I've been doing 18-21 hour fasts for four months now and am experiencing huge drops in body temperature while fasting. People say our library is cold but they are able to study there in tshirt and shorts and perhaps a light sweater, but I am freezing in jeans, tshirt, sweater, shoes and socks even and my lips turn purple and my hands go numb. Has anyone had this kind of experience?

Further, we're at the end of summer now and I dread to think what winter will be like for me...

Garrett Smith
03-25-2008, 06:24 AM
Alicia,
I'd suggest you start shortening your fasts ASAP.

You may have undiagnosed thyroid issues that the fasting is exacerbating. Iodine deficiency could play a big role here, as well as other thyroid-necessary nutrients.

Mike ODonnell
03-25-2008, 06:25 AM
Sounds like low thyroid output. How often are your fasts? How much are you eating on the eat days? Might want to throw in a couple higher calorie days and fast less often. More is not always better remember.

Edit: Man...Dr G beat me to it by 1 minute...oh well...I just did something on the thyroid on the blog so there are factors like vitamins and mineral deficiency like Dr G mentioned. Also do you drink coffee or other caffeine products? Ditch them. What is your exercise volume? If it is too high that could be an issue as well. Coconut Oil has also been said to help with thyroid output. But like said above....the fasts are making an underlying issue worse...so less fasting and more positive things for the thyroid like plenty of protein, EFAs, vitamins A,D,B and minerals like zinc, mg, and iodine.

You can google "hypothyroidism" for plenty of info on it.

Jane Michel
03-25-2008, 07:15 AM
Whoa Dr G's post is scaring me.

My fasts are everyday with 1-2 days a week being eat days. On eat days I eat as much as I want... protein, some fat, lots of fruit and veg throughout the day. Supplements are 6 x fish oil caps, ZMA at night and sometimes a multivitamin. Do iodine pills exist or is it better to get it from eating a lot of certain foods like seaweed?

Yep I drink a cup of coffee every morning. How does it affect the thyroid?

My exercise routine is about 3 days on 1 day off doing either CF or Coach Rut's WOD.

Could it be that carbs are just better at helping produce heat? I had a day of carbs last week after a month of Paleo-IF and felt quite warm throughout the day.

Mike ODonnell
03-25-2008, 08:26 AM
Don't get too scared...many people see the cold factor with too much fasting. Right now....try skipping the fasting and eating normally...whatever that may be. See if that helps. The thyroid is what regulates body temp....so something is telling it to lower production....too much fasting can do that. Chances are you are not getting enough calories in your feeding window too during your fasting days...as it takes work to eat what you really may need....especially protein which my guess is you may be low on that. Yes caffeine has a direct affect on thyroid by wearing out your adrenal glands which work with your thyroid. Low adrenals can signal low thyroid or poor T4 to T3 conversion. So just attack the big things with eating more (esp protein), drop the fasts, and try to ditch the coffee for a while....see what happens. Iodine you can get through foods or sea salt.

Garrett Smith
03-25-2008, 12:03 PM
Alicia,
Didn't mean to scare you.

In my practice, I don't put anyone on iodine without doing an "iodine loading" test, as conventional medicine has beat iodine into submission with propaganda. For more info on iodine deficiency, see www.optimox.com under "Iodine Research".

One good indicator of potential iodine deficiency is cystic issues--breast, ovarian, uterine. If you have/had any of those, that would be a good indicator to investigate iodine further.

In the meantime, you might want to try getting more sleep and eating sea vegetables as much as you can.

Iodine deficiency is easily corrected, but not through amounts found in the typical diet.

Jordan Glasser
03-25-2008, 02:16 PM
I've struggled with body temperature as well. I work out of a gym that is geared towards "cardio kids". The temperature is colder then a weight room should be, and I get cold really easily standing around.

Without getting technical (that's for the Dr.'s and MOD's), I'll tell you what was worked for me.

I was cold 99% of the time during fasts. So, I fasted less often, and for shorter periods. Well fed ensured I wasn't freezing, but, didn't ensure I was warm.

Hydration also helped immensely. Lot's of tea (mostly herbal) and water helps me stay warmer. Especially during fasted times.

Lastly, I went back on the zone so that my pro/fats/cho to ensure I was getting adequate amounts of each.

The combination of all these changes has made an impact. I'm not sure which one elicited the greatest response. All in all I feel in control of this situation, if I feel cold, I do all 3 of the above, and won't have the problem the next day.

As far as your observation that eating carbs helps you produce heat, I can attest to that. However, I look at it like, not enough carbs seems to make me "slow down" and get cold.

Jordan

Jane Michel
03-25-2008, 03:12 PM
That's alright Dr G :)
Thank you and thanks Mike and Jordan for your detailed advice.

I'll drop the fasts and coffee and get some sea salt and vegetables and coconut oil and probably measure protein.

sarena kopciel
03-25-2008, 05:55 PM
Hey I posted something earlier but it didnt go thru!!
I too was suffering from cold something terribly when my fasts went over 16+hrs. And I am taking an iodine supplement from Dr G as well. I thought it may just be me since I had lost all that weight and the NYC weather was cold in Nov/Dec when i was trying the IFing out. But I ended up with crazy shivers too, worse than ever!!

I had been fasting 5-7x week. I cut the fasts back to 2-3x week but remained paleo and that seemed to help a lot. Also reduced fasting time to rarely over 15hrs.

Five days ago, I went back to IFing and am gonna try to do it 5-6x week with fasts up to 16hrs max. Havent had the shivers or extreme cold yet!

Jane Michel
03-25-2008, 06:31 PM
Hey Sarena, "crazy shivers" is what it is! Let me know how the increase in fasting days/hours goes.

Jordan was it warm water and tea that you had? I sip on 1000ml/32oz ACV-water throughout the fast and it makes me feel colder.

sarena kopciel
03-25-2008, 06:35 PM
Hey Sarena, "crazy shivers" is what it is! Let me know how the increase in fasting days/hours goes.

Jordan was it warm water and tea that you had? I sip on 1000ml/32oz ACV-water throughout the fast and it makes me feel colder.

Will do! I am not upping the hours though as 15-16 seems just about right for me! I will try to keep it at an average of 6 days a week. I update it all in my blog as well.
You keep me updated as well!

Jordan Glasser
03-25-2008, 08:37 PM
Jordan was it warm water and tea that you had? I sip on 1000ml/32oz ACV-water throughout the fast and it makes me feel colder.

It's been green tea in the morning. Sometimes cold left over from the day before, and other times freshly brewed. Throughout the day it's been warm to hot peppermint tea. The water has always been cold.

Michael Miller
03-26-2008, 01:09 AM
What do you guys do as far as getting sea veggies into your diet...the most i get is from the occasional sushi roll.

sarena kopciel
03-26-2008, 03:54 AM
What do you guys do as far as getting sea veggies into your diet...the most i get is from the occasional sushi roll.

I started using a dulse shaker (http://seaveg.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13&products_id=12) instead of salt. You can also use gomasio (http://www.edenfoods.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=104260) with seaweed or this other seaweed product. In addition, you can add a sheet of wakame (http://seaveg.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=3) or kombu (http://seaveg.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=2) to your stews or soups and I recently made an arame (http://sarenasworld.blogspot.com/2008/03/me-definitely-not-lazy.html) dish that is great and keeps in the fridge for probably a week minimum! I would say these are the easiest options and there aer many companies out there. I just highlighted a few!

Garrett Smith
03-26-2008, 07:08 AM
I'm going to make my seaweed salad again, I'll submit it to the next PMenu...

I love that salad, I need to make it again. It has so much flavor!

Mike ODonnell
03-26-2008, 08:44 AM
What's your protein intake on fasting days? Here's my thoughts on it:
- Metabolism is supposedly regulated largely by muscle mass and calories
- Fasting shortens your eating window which in turn leads to less calories
- Protein intake has more effect than fats or carbs on thyroid output and thermogenesis from eating

If you also want to go back to "Paleo" man when he fattened up in the summer to make it through the winter. One would think being cold is not going to be his goal in the winter. Winter intake of food is higher in proteins and fats so I am guessing that lower metabolism was not an issue. (could he have been eating 1-2g/lb bodyweight in protein?)

Take home message, if you are excessively cold that is a sign of metabolism slow down and you should:
- Extend your eating window to get more calories
- Get more protein

I remember that when I was eating at a meat buffet and taking in 200-300grams of protein a day....I never had those issues of cold...lately my protein intake has been lower (although I don't believe overall calorie intake has been) and I have noticed increased sensitivity with hands and feet to coldness.

Michael Miller
03-26-2008, 02:36 PM
Sarena, that shaker sounds like a great addition, i had never thought of using something like that!

Brian Lau
03-28-2008, 12:37 PM
Reductions in body temperature are commonly observed with fasting; I blogged a bit about some of the science that exists on this, and the relation between body temperature and longevity. You all might be interested in the data:

http://tinyurl.com/29739y

Mike ODonnell
03-28-2008, 02:18 PM
Reductions in body temperature are commonly observed with fasting; I blogged a bit about some of the science that exists on this, and the relation between body temperature and longevity. You all might be interested in the data:

http://tinyurl.com/29739y

Very good article Brian! Thanks for the link.

Jane Michel
03-28-2008, 09:43 PM
Very good article Brian! Thanks for the link.

Yeah, thank you!

Sarena, thanks for the dulse shaker tip! I'll look in the supermarkets for dulse. Yesterday I had salad and a little fish for lunch and didn't feel cold at all in the library. Can't believe that just a little food can make so much difference?!

Robb Wolf
04-02-2008, 10:41 AM
Fasting will DEFENITELY decrease body temp. Scotty and i have noticed this for a long time. It's nice in the summer, hell in the winter. Shorten the fast periods as folks have recommended...make IF work for you, not against you! Basic paleo/zone eating to far too effective to introduce an undue amount of stress.

Gittit Shwartz
04-05-2008, 02:20 AM
I like to use seaweed in place of pasta - soak it and put meat sauce on top. The texture is close enough if you can ignore the smell of sea.

Robb Wolf
04-08-2008, 08:35 AM
Gettit! You are a WILDWOMAN!

Jeremy Shepard
04-18-2008, 05:00 PM
Has anyone noticed the opposite?

I tend to sweat a bit more during the fast, although I also get right at zero noticeable thermogenic effect from carbohydrate overfeeding.

Mike ODonnell
04-22-2008, 06:33 AM
Interesting find on hypothyroidism and fasting:

Dr. Ray Peat: The amount of glucose in liver cells regulates the enzyme that converts T4 to T3. This means that hypoglycemia or diabetes (in which glucose doesn't enter cells efficiently) will cause hypothyroidism, when T4 can't be converted into T3. When a person is fasting, at first the liver's glycogen stores will provide glucose to maintain T3 production. When the glycogen is depleted, the body resorts to the dissolution of tissue to provide energy. The mobilized fatty acids interfere with the use of glucose, and certain amino acids suppress the thyroid gland. Eating carbohydrate (especially fruits) can allow the liver to resume its production of T3.
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm

and
Thyroid problems can stem from prioritizing cortisol so T3 does not get made, from inadequate iodine in the diet, or from a liver that is struggling in its detoxification role and can’t make the enzymes necessary to convert T4 to T3. The other halogens like chlorine and fluorine have a higher affinity for the iodine receptors than iodine does, so drinking chlorinated and fluoridated water may be responsible for an inability to absorb iodine, and thereby affect thyroid function. Another important reason to filter our water! Goitrogens like processed soy and peanuts also block the absorption of iodine. Omega 6 vegetable oils are usually already rancid when consumed, and the oxidative processes seem to damage enzyme activity, increase inflammation, and block production of thyroid hormone. Coconut oil, a medium-chain fatty acid seems to aid thyroid function. Mercury in the body displaces selenium, which is needed to convert T4 to T3.
http://blog.wellnesstips.ca/blog/index.php/?p=110

Garrett Smith
04-22-2008, 11:01 AM
Hypothyroidism, due to any number of factors, is the main reason why I think some people do not respond well to IF (or can't do it at all without major symptoms).

Mike ODonnell
04-22-2008, 11:51 AM
If one thinks they may have hypothyroidism....how much of that is really due to a strained/damaged/fatty liver that can not produce enzymes to convert T4 to T3 vs having disfuctional thyroids? (of course I understand the only way to really know is through blood tests) I mean if you start to IF and you are still eating a good amount, then feel cold....wouldn't that signal something else going wrong in the whole process...or is that really the down regulation of the thyroid not producing enough T4?

Also how much of just only "feeling cold" could also just be due to poor adrenal function vs hypothyroidism? (too much excessive cortisol, stimlants and other factors?)

Garrett Smith
04-22-2008, 06:29 PM
MOD,
That's why I put in the "due to any number of factors"...

Clean up the diet, the liver gets better and insulin comes down, the thyroid will likely just kick back into gear.

Get enough sleep and don't overdo exercise/stress(-ors), along with proper nutrition, both the adrenals and thyroid come back on line.

Mike ODonnell
04-23-2008, 08:41 AM
Get enough sleep and don't overdo exercise/stress(-ors), along with proper nutrition, both the adrenals and thyroid come back on line.

The times my hands and feet felt the coldest were days of poor sleep habbits and too much coffee....so makes sense to me.

Dan Heaney
07-22-2008, 02:14 AM
I have an average waking temp of 96.4 but I'm not really cold all the time. Right now I IF 1-2 days a week. I want to go to every other day for 14-16 hours. Should I not do this becaus of my low waking temp with seems to indicate a metabolic slowdown?

Thanks

Allen Yeh
07-22-2008, 06:35 AM
What was your average temp prior to this? I know for a fact that I am usually around ~97 as a regular body temperature, which is quite a bit lower than the average of 98.7.

marcus allen
07-22-2008, 06:56 AM
I'm curious about the liver function, hypothyroid connection. I know I'm hypothyroid, I was diagnosed about 6 years ago and put on Synthroid. I would not doubt I have a fatty, ineffecient liver. I am trying to clean my diet up dramatically right now, what else can I do to help with Liver function, and after this much time what is the likelihood my thyroid function could "come back on line"?

Garrett Smith
07-22-2008, 08:05 AM
First thing I test for with low body temps, particularly in the extremities, is iodine deficiency. See Optimox.com (http://optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml) for more information. The test is a simple 24-hour urine test.

I've had multiple patients whose cold hands and feet have gone away after completing the testing and then the loading phase of iodine supplementation.

No, a normal Western or even Paleo diet will not get one enough iodine, especially when coming from a deficiency.