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Steve Liberati
04-01-2008, 06:39 AM
Geez, any one else notice the increase in food costs? And I'm not just talking about wheat and corn (not in my basket!). Went food shopping at Trader Schmo's the other day and bought less stuff than I normally do (had grass-fed meat in the freezer at home and bought fruits and veggies at the local produce stand). Total came to over a $100 for a week of food for my wife and I.

May have to go to the meat and berries diet until prices come back down:rolleyes:

How much a week are you spending on food?

Mike ODonnell
04-01-2008, 07:57 AM
With food and gas the way they are....I'm just riding my bike to McDonalds for $1 doublecheese burgers.....

Garrett Smith
04-01-2008, 07:57 AM
Steve,
My pregnant wife and I are spending ~$130/week at TJ's, that includes our meats. Prices have been going up...

John Alston
04-01-2008, 08:05 AM
Gov't making corn into ethanol more profitable than corn into feed/food driving up prices of lots of food. High transport costs due to high fuel prices, largely due to refining capacity too low to meet demand.
Time to re-up the Costco membership.
Just be glad there's no price controls, ala Venezuela. Total shortages and black market there.

Eric Kerr
04-01-2008, 10:12 AM
John,

You forgot one, growing more corn = using more fossile fuel based fertilizer.

Nice little circle we've got ourselves trapped in.

Neal Winkler
04-01-2008, 10:39 AM
You've all missed the biggest culprit of inflation, the Federal Reserve.

If inflation is the rise of prices, then what's the word for what causes the rise in prices?

It's not the things you guys mentioned, which might cause a rise in prices in he short term, as nothing causes a general and sustained rise in prices except monetary inflation, i.e. an increase in the supply of money.

Tony Ferous
04-12-2008, 10:52 PM
Biggest problem? Too many people in the world!! Need a global population cap.
No babies law next year maybe??! Practice only.

Steve Liberati
04-13-2008, 06:20 AM
I agree Tony. This is the argument against sending food to starving people in Africa. By sending food over you can increase the food supply which increases the population size. Then you created a problem by having more mouths to feed despite not having a stable supply of food for the newcomers. Sadly the good intention to make us look good foreign plan only works only in the short-term. But could you imagine peoples reactions if you said sending food over to Africa is a bad idea or building another HUGE shopping center with another supermarket, restaurants, and food stores in your small town is a very bad idea for the local economy in the long run? 1 baby law is a good start, along with cutting down our food supply. But both won't happen so we're eventually doomed.

Garrett Smith
04-13-2008, 06:46 AM
I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

One of my favorite monologues of all time. Some form of population control is the only answer--I don't care how "green" everything becomes.

Steve Liberati
04-13-2008, 07:26 AM
That is hilarious, Garrett. Who said it? I'm guessing George Carlin.

Mike ODonnell
04-13-2008, 07:49 AM
That is hilarious, Garrett. Who said it? I'm guessing George Carlin.

from The Matrix I believe......

Scott Kustes
04-13-2008, 12:34 PM
Agent Smith from The Matrix

Steve Liberati
04-13-2008, 01:33 PM
My guess was close lol.

Neal Winkler
04-13-2008, 04:04 PM
There is no chance that the world is going to undergo mass starvation anytime soon unless it's the result of bad governmental policies.

The cries of mass starvation are just another failed doomsday prediction that come and go like global warming/cooling.

If the food supply is left to the free market then the process of capital accumulation and technological improvement will continue to increase the amount of food available per capita, and give us the ability to secure it's supply against unforseen problems created by mother nature.

As I said, the only danger from starvation will be from bad government policies. Look out for price ceilings to curb inflation (inflation is the result of central banking printing money faster than the growth of the economy, fractional reserve banking without a central bank, or clipping coins, it is NOT a natural economic phenomena) or even socialization of the food supply similar to socialized medicine.

Mike ODonnell
04-13-2008, 06:02 PM
Man builds machines....man walks robot dogs....man has more robot friends than real ones....man invents AI....AI realizes man is his bitch.....man lives underground waiting for the "one" or dodging terminators......sounds about right....

Neal Winkler
04-13-2008, 07:20 PM
If you guys really want population control then just wait for virtual reality sex.

Garrett Smith
04-13-2008, 07:26 PM
Actually, I was thinking about the quote more today.

Like "invasive" species, doesn't just about every animal that lacks a natural predator keep procreating until it runs out of available food/resources?

Mike ODonnell
04-13-2008, 08:29 PM
just about every animal that lacks a natural predator keep procreating until it runs out of available food/resources?

I think Nature is one step above us.....as it can easily pound us with tidal waves, drought, earthquakes, volcanoes, malaria, freezing temps...and other things that can lead to loss of life....so we aren't the top of the food chain after all.......that and we kill off enough of our own species with wars and other disputes.....I don't think running out of food will be the big issue.....

Mike ODonnell
04-13-2008, 08:31 PM
If you guys really want population control then just wait for virtual reality sex.

Why....they going to hook up a live wire to the floppy drive to electracute people? I never did get that whole online sex thing......

Neal Winkler
04-14-2008, 06:36 AM
So people can get their rocks off without having babies.

Mike ODonnell
04-14-2008, 08:17 AM
So people can get their rocks off without having babies.

Yes I got that....my reply was an attempt at online sex humor from a different view point....but alas once a comedian has to reveal the joke....it is no longer funny....sighhhh....now back to foreplay with my mouse.....

Neal Winkler
04-14-2008, 07:02 PM
Rising food prices are causing riots around the world. (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/04/14/world.food.crisis/index.html)

Just like I said, government intrusion will cause problems with the food supply. What's going on today is that central banks (whether socialized or fascist), specifically the U.S. Federal Reserve, have caused the recent uptick in prices through monetary expansion. This monetary expansion resulted in a misallocation of resources in the housing sector, now exposed, and now the inflation has trickled out into the economy. Nice job Greenspan and your fellow central banking crooks! I feel sorry for Bernanke, he inherited quite the mess. He also has no idea what's going on, and no, he is not the world's formost expert on the great depression.

See the expansion of the money supply here that shot way up starting in 2001.... okay, nevermind the site isn't working right now. I come back with the link later.

Neal Winkler
04-14-2008, 07:35 PM
Here's the link to the money supply.

http://mises.org/content/nofed/chart.aspx?series=TMS

Susie Rosenberg
04-15-2008, 05:57 AM
TJs and Whole Foods markets and such are not the only way to get high quality foods.....their markups are enormous, plus a great deal of their goods are "organic" but shipped from faraway markets.

I am rather...ummm...enthusiastic about food, so here are a couple of things I do to keep costs down:

1. The higher up the food chain I eat, the more important it is to avoid toxins in the food. So I am not proud---I stock up on frozen veggies at Walmart. A package of MacKenzie chopped collard greens is only $1.54; and it's chopped so fine I can just saute it without having to boil first---saves nutrients! I would never have the patience to chop my greens that fine. So TIP #1: frozen veggies are often fresher than "fresh" shipped veggies and are a lot cheaper.

2. Join a CSA--community supported agriculture. Because I won't be able to grow my garden this year (will be recovering from spine surgery) I joined one for this season. $500 will buy me weekly deliveries of local, freshly harvested organic produce sufficient for a family of four from June 1st through the end of October, plus a thanksgiving delivery. I pick my order once a week at a convenient local spot. Doesn't get better than this except to grow your own!

3. Find a local producer of grassfed meats and organize a buying club. We just did that at my local Crossfit afffiliate. 10 families are buying direct from a farmer one hour away, and each family takes a turn going to the farm on a monthly basis to pick up all the orders. We get a volume discount. This is necessary as there is no local distributer for these meats. Even if you can't find a local farmer who pastures his animals, maybe you could organize a buying club from someone who ships, and have a pooled order that comes to one location and everybody comes and picks it up during a 4 hour window once a month. The producer saves packing/shipping costs and might offer a volume discount. It's almost always cheaper to cut out the middleman!

4, Farmer's markets in season. Better produce at better prices.

But yeah....food prices are flooring me up here in upstate NY!

Susie

Frank Needham
04-15-2008, 06:02 AM
Interesting discussion here. Who'll be the first to say "Ok, you can sterilize me to save the rest of the world?" Hell, it won't be me, its too late, got an 18 month old right now. There won't be any more though! "Hell no" is what you see all third world countries saying to voluntary birth control, whether it is done out of ignorance or not. China, Latin America, India are all exploding duh? More people chasing after resources = higher prices, at least for the immediate future. I see the future, and it is brown....these folks are knockin boots like there is no tomorrow. My own wife's people for example? The RPI has like 80 million and counting fast on what amounts to an island nation and they aren't slowing down no matter what they're faced with.

Mike ODonnell
04-15-2008, 08:54 AM
Find a local producer of grassfed meats and organize a buying club. We just did that at my local Crossfit afffiliate. 10 families are buying direct from a farmer one hour away, and each family takes a turn going to the farm on a monthly basis to pick up all the orders. We get a volume discount.

That is a great idea....as we need to start coming together and taking care of our own health in the community....instead of relying on govt or larger public supermarket corporations who need profit margins to take care of us.

Imagine how much greater the world would be if everyone took full responsibility and started fending for themselves whether individual or even in small communities (in all aspects)...and not sit around and expect people to take care of them.

Jay Cohen
04-15-2008, 10:20 AM
That is a great idea....as we need to start coming together and taking care of our own health in the community....instead of relying on govt or larger public supermarket corporations who need profit margins to take care of us.

Imagine how much greater the world would be if everyone took full responsibility and started fending for themselves whether individual or even in small communities (in all aspects)...and not sit around and expect people to take care of them.


Well said.

Neal Winkler
04-15-2008, 12:32 PM
Mike,

Local grass fed farmers are trying to make profit too. If they weren't then how would they pay their bills unless they are totally independent in terms of food supply and energy? Or maybe they are millionaires who are being frugal? At the very least they would still have to pay property taxes, so they would have to make profit or they would go to jail.

If we all start buying local grassfed then eventually big supermarkets will cater to this consumer demand and probably make it cheaper to buy grass fed from them. Big supermarket chain CEO's aren't sitting behind their desks right now going, "MUHAHAHAHA I'm making everyone unhealthy and I'm getting rich off it." The food they stock in their stores is nothing more than supplying what consumers demand. It's not their responsibility to look after anyone.

But perhaps you weren't saying anything against supermarket chains. I'm not sure. The "evil corporation" is just such a common economic fallacy that people make, so whenever I get a hint of it I feel obligated to stand up for what is true.

Does anyone care to discuss the virtues of Wal-Mart with me? :)

John Alston
04-15-2008, 02:15 PM
"Local grass fed farmers are trying to make profit too."
Exactly, Neal.

Mike ODonnell
04-15-2008, 11:07 PM
Mike, Local grass fed farmers are trying to make profit too. But perhaps you weren't saying anything against supermarket chains. I'm not sure. The "evil corporation" is just such a common economic fallacy that people make, so whenever I get a hint of it I feel obligated to stand up for what is true.

Yes I am all for profit and business....that was not the point. I was more referring to cheap and inferior products that you sometimes find in the hopes of a better profit margin. In the end...if everyone ate local meat, the local farmers couldn't handle the demand and it would either all disappear or they would expand and go "corporate". Corporations are a neccessity if we expect the economy to be stable....otherwise it goes back to fending for ourselves...and crap...as soon as their is a blackout for 1 hour there is everyone looting....we are so unstable we can't handle what is coming.......but nothing stays the same as history can teach you that....in the end, everyone who relies on somsone else to take care of them is in for trouble....the ones who take care of themselves will be better off.

Neal Winkler
04-16-2008, 11:00 AM
What is coming? Do I need to re-watch "I am Legend?" or something? :eek:

I already have a cardboard cutout of Will Smith from the movie in my basement. That's all I need...

Mike ODonnell
04-16-2008, 11:52 AM
What is coming? Do I need to re-watch "I am Legend?" or something? :eek:

I already have a cardboard cutout of Will Smith from the movie in my basement. That's all I need...

Will Smith is a modern day Nostradamus....as the robots....aliens....and mutant humans are coming.....oh wait....or is that Futurama?