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Howard Wilcox
04-03-2008, 07:11 PM
Hello folks,

I read here quite a bit but haven't posted...so I'll open with a video of Louie at a conference/seminar:

http://macthrowvideo2.com/2006NTCALS.wmv

It's mostly on the box squat and contrast methods. Since I've been reading a lot on conjugate training lately, I thought it was pretty interesting.

The best "did he just say that" quote so far:

"If I had olympic lifters, we would have gold medals in America."


Enjoy...

howard

Eric Jones
04-15-2008, 09:09 PM
I would like to hear Greg's thoughts on this...especially the parts about the O-Lifts being non-applicable to sports.

Dave Van Skike
04-15-2008, 10:45 PM
I would like to hear Greg's thoughts on this...especially the parts about the O-Lifts being non-applicable to sports.

Simmons is a genius. that said, power cleans and power snatch are directly applicable to the suplex, atlas stones and tire flip. can't speak for anything else. i think the full lifts may be comparatively worthless to the power versions, but I'm inflexible and obdurate

Arden Cogar Jr.
04-17-2008, 08:19 AM
I disagree that the full lifts are obsolete/comparatively worthless for athletics. Completely disagree. The problem that most trainers and trainees have with the full lifts is that they are very technically difficult to learn, let alone teach. It takes a lot of time and effort to master the technique of the snatch and c&J; and a lot of ego restraint in order to master that technique. Most trainers/trainees lack the patience to accept that long time line and instead opt for the easier to learn/teach power versions.

That's my novice opinion.

All I know is that in my own athletic persuits is that having incorporated the fulls lifts into my training I have improved my speed and explosiveness considerably. At my level in my sport (at any sport at the elite level) looking for 1/10th of 1% to hopefully improve by 10ths of a second, this will hopefully have a profound impact.

That aside, I truly enjoy the full movements. If you would have asked me that question two years ago, I would have said "what the hell is a snatch balance?"

All the best,
Arden

Greg Everett
04-17-2008, 11:45 AM
I've very intentionally avoided getting involved in this discussion... let's just say I disagree. I think Simmons is a sharp guy for whom I have a great deal of respect, and if I were a powerlifter in an all-gear, un-drug-tested federation, he's who I would look to. But when it comes to the O-lifts, he's out of his element and tries too much to apply PL info where it doesn't belong.

Dave Van Skike
04-17-2008, 12:06 PM
I disagree that the full lifts are obsolete/comparatively worthless for athletics. Completely disagree. The problem that most trainers and trainees have with the full lifts is that they are very technically difficult to learn, let alone teach. It takes a lot of time and effort to master the technique of the snatch and c&J; and a lot of ego restraint in order to master that technique. Most trainers/trainees lack the patience to accept that long time line and instead opt for the easier to learn/teach power versions.

That's my novice opinion.

All I know is that in my own athletic persuits is that having incorporated the fulls lifts into my training I have improved my speed and explosiveness considerably. At my level in my sport (at any sport at the elite level) looking for 1/10th of 1% to hopefully improve by 10ths of a second, this will hopefully have a profound impact.

That aside, I truly enjoy the full movements. If you would have asked me that question two years ago, I would have said "what the hell is a snatch balance?"

All the best,
Arden

Well, I'll take your word for it. You're a strong chap who's done both if ai recall. Any time I've spent on the full lifts has not helped me where I want it to, whereas the power versions seemed to directly carryover to work with odd objects.

power vs full movement I dunno but Louie is all wet on this one.

As for "when it comes to the O-lifts, he's out of his element and tries too much to apply PL info where it doesn't belong." I think there is a growing school of though in PL that he's assuming too much from OL programming and putting it where it doesn't belong in PL.

His ridonkculous statements about getting american OL'er competitive if only they used his system is just meant to goose people, I can't believe for a second that he's serious.

Mike ODonnell
04-17-2008, 12:16 PM
I know Louie knows his stuff.....but he is human....as didn't he also invent and mass market the infomercial based system of "CorEvolution Trainer"?

Arden Cogar Jr.
04-17-2008, 12:19 PM
Dave,
completely understood and know exactly where you're coming from.

If you think about it, the sport specific nature of what we're training has carryover. I'm training for a longer, fuller, faster, timed, repetitive stroke. You're training for explosiveness and maximal effort generated in a short space or area. Therefore, the applications are different and exactly what we're both writing makes sense from our own perspectives.

Moreover, my conversion from powerlifting/power bodybuilding to xfit/CA/olympic lifting has been humbling in every sense of the word.

Louie is brilliant. He's a great coach. He knows his stuff. No doubt about it. But, in reality, I believe his commentary down this avenue may be a bit off as you've suggested - and that is in no way meant to slight his credentials or his knowledge in any way. I have the utmost respect for him and have met him and trained with some of his athletes.

All the best,
Arden

Well, I'll take your word for it. You're a strong chap who's done both if ai recall. Any time I've spent on the full lifts has not helped me where I want it to, whereas the power versions seemed to directly carryover to work with odd objects.

power vs full movement I dunno but Louie is all wet on this one.

As for "when it comes to the O-lifts, he's out of his element and tries too much to apply PL info where it doesn't belong." I think there is a growing school of though in PL that he's assuming too much from OL programming and putting it where it doesn't belong in PL.

His ridonkculous statements about getting american OL'er competitive if only they used his system is just meant to goose people, I can't believe for a second that he's serious.