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Nick Cummings
12-08-2006, 09:07 AM
I'm starting the PM MGP as outlined in the issue tomorrow. I am eating Zone with 5xfat and a postworkout meal including grape juice, creatine, and whey. I am considering adding BCAA to that. My daily consumption usually totals 5000kcal but once every two weeks or so they fall short and end up near 3600-3800kcal for a day.

I am 6'3" and weighed 194lbs this morning prior to eating. My body weight goal is 215. I plan to have reached this weight by May 4, 2007. This gives me 21 weeks which would be enough time to run three cycles of this program or adjust after having completed the first seven weeks. Body composition is currently a nonissue as my gym calipers me at 8% although I suspect I am closer to 10%.

My current maxes in lifts relevent to the program include: Clean 215lbs, Strict Press 155lbs, and Weighted Chin 70lbs. I plan to update this post at least every two weeks and welcome any comments/criticism.

R. Alan Hester
12-08-2006, 09:12 AM
Good luck, Nick. I am very intrigued by that workout and am eager to watch (read about) your progress.

Alan

Steve Shafley
12-08-2006, 09:17 AM
Consider taking BCAAs or half your post-workout drink (or maybe just some of the whey) before training.

Mike ODonnell
12-08-2006, 09:44 AM
Nick,

Sounds like a solid plan, you should...No I take that back, WILL see tremendous results. Monitor your body fat....you might have to watch the amount of PWO sugars if you are insulin resistant and find more fat piling on. Poloquin says he uses a mix of Whey and L-Glutamine (like 30+g) as his PWO linking the L-Glutamine as an insulin stimulator (which is why you want high GI sugars for the anabolic affect) without adding the excess sugars to an insulin resistant person. I'm sure the body fat will go up a small %, but shouldn't be more than 3-4%. You can always lean back out those few % and save the muscle later.

What kind of lifting cycle are you planning on doing? 5x5? 3x8? 10x10? etc...of course a periodized program is the best solution for max strength and size.

And Steve makes a good point about some BCAA before a workout so they are already in the system for the muscle to suck up like a sponge.
"The fundamental idea to take away is that BCAA, in particularly leucine, reverse the inhibition of translation produced by resistance training. In reversing this inhibition, BCAA will allow for increased muscle hypertrophy through greater levels of protein synthesis."
from a related thread over at t-nation on BCAAs http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=2793FFDB54D4CFBA132CA4DEFC A62A52.hydra?id=1367018

Robb Wolf
12-09-2006, 07:29 AM
Nick-
Please do keep us posted on your progress. Your goals look totally reasonable.

Mike,Steve
Great info!

Nick Cummings
12-09-2006, 01:34 PM
Wow, thanks for all the support and suggestions. I have ordered some BCAA and plan to use them pre or post workout. I am honestly not overly concerned with fat gain as I am thin. I plan to follow the plan from the Performance Menu article on mass gain to the letter for the first seven weeks. I will post any new PR's and or weight gain in a few weeks.

Mike ODonnell
01-07-2007, 03:40 PM
Just curious, was there ever any updates on the Mass Gain Program as outlined in the PM and the results?

Nick Cummings
02-19-2007, 06:15 PM
Quick update. I am up to 201 and have added 20lbs to my weighted chin. I have not tested my other relevent lifts as I have been lifting out at my school's gym which restricts me from performing certain lifts. They frown on anything overhead which really put a damper on the PM Mass Gain program. I have been playing with Rippetoe's programming from Starting Strength and am progressing decently. I hope for some new PRs in the coming weeks. Honestly I have been less consistent with my diet then I would like. I am refocusing on my diet and will update again if anything interesting happens.

Robb Wolf
02-19-2007, 06:59 PM
Just curious, was there ever any updates on the Mass Gain Program as outlined in the PM and the results?
Mike-
This is by far our most popular issue...but we have heard relatively little feedback. What we have heard has generally been favorable...although one chap on the Crossfit message board used the program as a "cutting" method...go figure!

Elliot Royce
02-20-2007, 11:01 AM
I haven't been following exactly the PM diet but have been averaging 250g protein, 300-400g carb, and around 150-200g fat. This works out at something like 4000-4500 calories per day. Frankly I find it hard to consistently consume this much in healthy calories, not least because my stomach is just not used to eating so much.

I've combined this with SS lifting and O lifts, with only hockey for metabolic conditioning. My weight shifts up and down but this has translated into around a 7-10lb gain over 2 months which is around 3% of body weight. As soon as I stop eating, though, it seems to start heading south.

Mike ODonnell
02-20-2007, 12:41 PM
Elliot, sounds like a sign that your metabolism is too good and you are doing way too many activities to get any bigger. Hence why the biggest guys may not be in the best metabolic conditioning...and smaller guys with great metabolic conditioning will not get any bigger. Simple energy in vs expediture.

Hockey is still a huge cal burn (2000+).

Right now I can not eat that much food....so I opted for only 3 days working out and no other planned activities (maybe some biking on the weekend). My conditioning has gone to crap...but then again that's easy to get back in my book. It's putting on the lbs that is a pain in the ass.

Elliot Royce
02-20-2007, 12:47 PM
You know, Mike, I probably have the perfect body for hockey -- 6'3", 230lbs, long legs (femur is longer than my chest) -- too bad I didn't get the skill set to go with it.

What are you trying to get up to, weight-wise? Above 230lbs, it's probably counterproductive for my hockey but helpful for the O lifts.

All of this is for fun so I'm not going to obsess too much about it. I'm still the most solid guy in my adult league (the defenseman the other night said, "when you headed right for me, all I could think about was Brendan Shanahan") .

But I've discovered (with advice from you guys) my secret weapon, Mass Factor with Coconut milk (1100 calories per drink)!

Mike ODonnell
02-20-2007, 12:54 PM
I'm a wimpy 195lbs now....would love to get up around 215 and then start cutting back....Yes 230 is big for hockey.....look at the pros, most are 190-215 for the average forward who is 6" odd inches tall.....then again you have guys at 250...but they are not power forwards and probably have like 3 shifts a night to go punch someone's lights out.

God made me quicker...to get out of the way of guys 230lbs trying to take my head off.....sometimes I win.....sometimes I get another concussion.......sometimes I get another concussion....sometimes...wait....didn't I already say that??

Elliot Royce
02-20-2007, 12:59 PM
I think most of the younger guys out of college are coming in at 6'2" or above and get to 220lbs after a season or two, no? Of course, they manipulate the stats so maybe not.

Of course, I'd rather be Jason Blake than Charo. Anyone that small who can score that much is definitely cool.

Mike ODonnell
02-20-2007, 04:23 PM
The stats are a little stretched sometimes...don't get me wrong....they are all muscle and low body fat....220 at 6'3" is reasonable....220 at 6'0", probably not (for a forward that is)...but they do keep getting bigger and bigger...go watch at ice level and you will see how big some of these guys are getting.....of course the stats are inflated and they lose about 15lbs during the season....

So if you are small by nature...better be fast and know how to shoot.....if you are big....better know how to hit hard and catch those damn little fast guys.

Allison Barns
02-20-2007, 09:53 PM
L-Glutamine as an insulin stimulator (which is why you want high GI sugars for the anabolic affect) without adding the excess sugars to an insulin resistant person.


Mike - What do you mean here? What is an 'insulin stimulator' in this context?
Thanks!

Mike ODonnell
02-21-2007, 06:21 AM
Honestly I never found anyone else but Poliquin to say this....but he believes that using large doses of Lglutamine (30g+) helped to release insulin by the body without needing all the sugar intake. A way for people who may be "carb sensitive" aka...put on the fat quicker with higher carbs or PWO sugar intake...to still use the insulin spike to help shuttle more protein into the muscles while also maintaining a lean body fat %. I honestly can't remember if he did add any additional carbs to the PWO drink for glycogen replenishment as well.

That's a little too expensive a trick for me to try out at this point....but Poliquin usually has some good results and experience to back up his claims.

Robb Wolf
02-21-2007, 11:45 AM
Honestly I never found anyone else but Poliquin to say this....but he believes that using large doses of Lglutamine (30g+) helped to release insulin by the body without needing all the sugar intake. A way for people who may be "carb sensitive" aka...put on the fat quicker with higher carbs or PWO sugar intake...to still use the insulin spike to help shuttle more protein into the muscles while also maintaining a lean body fat %. I honestly can't remember if he did add any additional carbs to the PWO drink for glycogen replenishment as well.

That's a little too expensive a trick for me to try out at this point....but Poliquin usually has some good results and experience to back up his claims.

glutamine is also easily converted to glucose and i think can be of benefit with regards to glycogen replenishment...Ido? Ido?

Cassidy Drake
02-21-2007, 12:22 PM
That's why Poliquin uses 15 grams PWO with no carbs.

Mike ODonnell
02-21-2007, 12:29 PM
"So now we have theories for glutamine supplementation to increase protein synthesis/inhibit protein breakdown, as well as boost immunity following intense exercise. This sounds great, but we have yet to look at glutamine's potential effect to stimulate glycogen replenishment following exercise. Glutamine infusion has been shown to enhance glycogen stores following cycling exercise twice as much as compared to subjects who infused saline or other amino acids.(27) If this happened after weight training, it could even help with our cellular swelling and have the aforementioned postive effect on protein accretion.

Another study supports the use of glutamine for enhancing muscle glycogen. Bowtell et al. found that glutamine supplementation following exercise enhanced glycogen resynthesis in muscle just as well as the ingestion of a glucose polymer.(4)"
Dave Barr
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=230glut2

I also read the L-Glut also enhances the GH response...so either pwo or before bed would probably be the most ideal times?

Still wish I could find the original article with Poliquins PWO shake info....I want to say some carbs like 20-30g?? (in addition to the L-Glut)

Allison Barns
02-21-2007, 09:53 PM
Mike and Robb,
Thanks for all the info!
BTW - glutamine is (apparently) also beneficial for those with food allergies/intolerances:)

Mike ODonnell
02-22-2007, 06:27 AM
Can't spell GlUTamine without G-U-T......ahhhhhh........yeah.....I'll be here all week, try the steak.

Robb Wolf
02-22-2007, 08:13 AM
Allison-
glutamine can act as a primary fuel source for the intestinal epithelium. Very helpful for celiac although for Crohn's disease it may be problematic in some circumstances...interesting.

Keep an eye out for the glutamine source also...occasionally it is from wheat gluten:mad:

Allison Barns
02-22-2007, 08:58 PM
Nice! A "comic" and a "straight-shooter" in a one-two post!
Thanks again gents!

Yael Grauer
02-23-2007, 04:50 PM
Mike-
This is by far our most popular issue...but we have heard relatively little feedback. What we have heard has generally been favorable...although one chap on the Crossfit message board used the program as a "cutting" method...go figure!

I'm almost done with the program (just need to get my new 1RM numbers), and I've gone up at least 10 pounds on everything. The biggest improvement has been with my front squat. My previous PR was only 60 lbs (six months of Crossfit got it up from 25); I hit 97 today (remember, this is a 7 week program) and am pretty confident I can hit 110 sometime this week. I'll post my before/after numbers in my training log once I get them on paper. I think I gained around five pounds or so, but I don't weigh myself consistently so it's hard to tell.

Ironically enough, my cardio (mostly heavybag work) has improved and I've also lost an inch or something (I think--all I really know is that those perfect fit pants are a little on the baggy side now).

I'm amazed at the improvement I've gotten from something that seems so low volume. I did take an extra 7 days or so off when I felt I needed them, but I've always done the extra day thing (usu. due to injuries.) This program kicks ass, and it definitely got my numbers up much faster than CF ever did, without all the side effects. The best part about it is that I don't feel exhausted or overtrained and I haven't gotten any injuries.

Next up I'm going to switch to the "whatever my Olylifting coach tells me to do" program...I'm excited about that one. :D

Chris Forbis
03-04-2007, 12:16 PM
Mike -

Poliquin's PWO advice on carb/protein/glutamine is in the link below. Somewhere else I saw him recommend ~ .2g/lb of BCAAs.

http://www.criticalbench.com/Charles-Poliquin.htm

Greg Everett
03-05-2007, 04:18 PM
Next up I'm going to switch to the "whatever my Olylifting coach tells me to do" program...I'm excited about that one. :D

i had a chat with micella this weekend in ohio. do what he tells you!

Yael Grauer
03-06-2007, 09:22 AM
i had a chat with micella this weekend in ohio. do what he tells you!

I know, isn't he amazing? I'm no genius, but I recognize genius when I see it...