View Full Version : Kelly Bagget article(s)
12-11-2006, 12:07 PM
All of this Jay Schroeder talk prompted me to do a little searching. I couldn't find anything on the net that was any more revealing than his interview with Robb, but somewhere along the way someone (Shafley maybe?) talked about Kelly Bagget, who's worked with Schroeder and is a little more open to discussing training methods. Anyway there's a series of articles here: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly.htm.
I thought this one had some interesting points and was curious as to what others thought: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly19.htm.
12-11-2006, 12:08 PM
He's got some good stuff there.
12-11-2006, 03:30 PM
I REALLY like his stuff. He is on my list of folks to interview.
Steve, have you followed his work much?
Ryan- Thanks for the reminder!
12-11-2006, 07:26 PM
I've been reading the site since it opened. I have read his Vertical Jump book...it's outstanding. I am seriously considering getting his new book regarding lean mass gain.
Good stuff from Kelly, almost always.
12-12-2006, 06:07 PM
I'd second that his vertical jump book is great. I do miss it though, it was saved only to my laptop that stolen last year....
12-14-2006, 12:08 PM
Lyle McDonald's newsletter has an interview with Kelly Baggett today. As a side note, Lyle's newsletters are usually weekly, and generally contain some interesting content. A typical newsletter is:
Content (often interviews with guys like Baggett, Cressey, and, heh, me once, and occasionally material from some of Lyle's ongoing projects)
Here it is:
Feature Interview with Kelly Baggett
1: Hi Kelly, thank for joining us. Can you give us an idea of your background in the field?
Well I played most of the common team sports in school like basketball and football and from my late teens on my parents owned a small gymnastics, martial arts, and fitness facility, so I was always around sports and fitness. Even though I was a fairly decent athlete I was the typical skinny hardgainer type kid. I graduated high school at about 120 pounds. Thus, when I first got serious about training at around the age of 18 I was solely interested in bodybuilding. I've been fairly obsessed with various things related to training and diet ever since I got serious about it.
Even though I was originally just interested in looking good I also found the bigger and stronger I became the better I got at sports. Over the years I've dabbled in martial arts, powerlifting, o-lifting, track and field, and boxing. I actually boxed up until fairly recently.
Anyhow, over the years I was always in the gym either training myself or others. I'd get an interest in a particular style of training and learn as much as I could about it.
I guess in some ways I'm kind've a bit of a black sheep. Most bodybuilders tend to hate powerlifters and sports trainers. Powerlifters hate olympic lifters and vice versa. Strength and conditioning coaches make fun of all of them. But at one time or another I've been totally hardcore into about all of those respective "cliques". Anything having to do with physical performance or manipulation I'm game for.
Back before the internet I subscribed to every muscle magazine and read everything I could get my hands on by guys like Dan Duchaine and John Parrillo. I ate, lived, and slept muscle gain and fat loss. I wasn't a guy with a great physique by any means - I just thought manipulating the body and learning how to do that was awesome so I strived to learn as much as possible.
Eventually I was introduced to powerlifting and dabbled in that for several years. Then had a stint with olympic lifting. During this time I started training more and more athletes and eventually learned all the sports specific training stuff too. I kind've try to merge all of the stuff together. I've found that I've never really lost any of my interests...just kind've added to them. So instead of reading an hour or so per week like I did at 19 years old, now it takes me a boatload of time just to stay up to date on all my various interests: Alright anything new in the bodybuilding world? check. Fat loss world? check. Powerlifting world? check. Sport specific world? check.
2: Tell us about your own past athletic accomplishments or current goals.
You hear about these "gym" bodybuilders who are so great but never compete...guys like Vic Richards. Well, I was kind've that way as a speed-strength athlete. At my athletic peak at 5'9 I could pop a 9'6 tile ceiling with my head and I could run a sub 4.3 second 40 yard dash. However, I was such a late bloomer as an athlete I never had a chance to get any scholarship offers or anything like that so I was just pretty much a "street" type athlete and trainer. I am physically suited for combat sports and did do well in them but just didn't have a lot of passion for them - Didn't really like hitting people. Now I just to try and look good while maintaining a decent degree of athleticism.
3. As athletes and lifters move from beginner to intermediate to advanced, what do you think needs to change in terms of their training?
They need to get more focused with regard to creating and recovering from fatigue. A beginner will respond to anything and it doesn't take much for them to improve a given quality. Since they aren't really capable of inducing much fatigue, they also recover fairly quickly. That's why a beginner can hit a lift 3 times per week for 3 sets of 10 at 70% and gain strength workout to workout and recover just fine. However, as they progress they eventually reach a point where it takes more to stimulate a desired response. Not only does it take more to evoke a response, but now they're stronger and capable of creating more fatigue, so they need more recovery time. So now they might progress performing 5-8 sets per workout 2 days per week.
They might progress on that setup for a while but eventually they reach a point where they won't progress in strength session to session... a single workout is no longer enough to create enough fatigue to invoke an adaptive response. At this point they might train for 2-4 weeks with higher frequency and loading, say 5-8 sets at 80% 2-3 days per week. During this higher volume period a lot of fatigue will be generated and strength and power gains would likely be stagnant. Yet they then follow this up with 4 weeks of training a muscle group once every 4-6 days and they gain workout to workout. The higher volume period disrupts homeostasis, while the lower volume period allows supercompensation from that disruption.
Interestingly enough, those who make gains off of HIT are often unknowingly doing some sort've variation of what I just described. They train balls out for months or years with high volume where they never totally recover. Then they switch to HIT and allow themselves to recover from all that volume. All the sudden they make dramatic strength and size gains for about a month. Did they make the gains from HIT? Not really. They made the gains during their high volume phase. All the fatigue they were creating was just masking their true fitness state.
4. What's the best piece of training advice you've heard lately?
It came from Dan John: "The coach who coaches himself has an idiot for a client." I think he's exactly right when he says that it's very difficult to coach yourself because the more you know the more you start second guessing and questioning every minor detail of your training.
5. What about the worst?
A guru told one of my female BB clients that she shouldn't do any cardio whatsoever because it would burn up all her muscle. She went out and did about 8 hours of cardio in one week, gained 5 percent on all her lifts and a pound of muscle. I guess it depends on who you are - cookie cutter prescriptions rarely cut it.
6. Who in this field has influenced you and who do you listen to?
You and I probably have a lot of the same early role models. Guys like Dan Duchaine, John Parrillo, Charlie Francis, Stuart McRobert, Verkhoshansky, Mel Siff, and Tudor Bompa. Most of what I learn now is self taught, but I still have guys that I kind've seek out for information in given fields:
In the area of nutrition, metabolic regulation and endurance training that would be yourself.
For assessments and corrective exercise I seek out info. by Bill Hartmann.
For strength training I learn a lot from Glenn Pendlay
In sports training I like Mike Boyle's approach.
For perspective I like Dan John.
There are a ton of other guys too, but if I see an article from any of those folks I will definitely read it.
7. You've written extensively about both bodybuilding and athletic training and nutrition. If there was a single piece of advice you could give each group in terms of making progress in their endeavors, what would it be?
Bodybuilders - For most people not much happens without food intake. If you're not eating enough to put on some fat, you're probably not eating enough to put on any muscle either.
Sports Training- Don't lose site of your target. If in doubt keep things simple. I have found that more of a HIT type mentality periodically applied towards sports training often produces excellent results - simply because an athlete has so many various qualities to address and some degree of over-reaching seems to be the norm rather than the exception. Dynamic warmups, static flexibility, soft tissue work, strength training, power training, plyometrics, conditioning work etc. By the time you have all that covered, not to mention the sport training itself, many people can't help but be in somewhat of an over-reached state.
So I recommend people every once in a while take a couple of weeks to a month and get rid of all the background noise - just focus on the very basic things you're trying to improve. If you're trying to get faster take a 2 week period and eliminate all the strength, power, plyo, and tempo work and just get out on the track every couple of days and go for PRs. At least 10 times in the past year I have taken that approach with an athlete and I've yet to see it not work. The volume is still important as it creates the fatigue and the stimulus for the adaptive response, but you don't show the fitness until you eliminate the fatigue. I think it takes longer than what people realize for recovery to really take place.
8. In your own training past, what would you say was your worst mistake? Put differently, if you could go back and time and train more effectively, knowing what you know now, what would you do differently?
I would use more concentrated loading and unloading periods and also take better care of my joints. Better warm-ups, less weight, stricter control. I don't have a build really conducive to lifting heavy weights and I'm feeling it now.
9. Recently you released a book called "The No-Bull Muscle Building Plan - Defying the Curse of the Natural Muscle Seeking athlete" which is an approach to gaining muscle mass without the (often excessive) fat gain that can occur. Tell us about the program: How long did it take you to develop? Who is it aimed at? What kind of results can people expect using it?
It actually started several years ago when I was battling some problems with undiagnosed hypothyroidism. I was training consistently yet my muscles were shrinking while I was simultaneously piling on the blubber. I tried to come up with an approach that would allow me to maintain some semblance of conditioning and I did. The cyclical training and diet plan I came up worked to maintain my physique.
However, I wanted to see what would happen if I used it on someone with a normal functional metabolism. So, I tried it out on some people and it actually worked better than expected. Not only did they end up building muscle, but they also shed quite a bit of fat simultaneously. I eventually kept modifying and tweaking it to the point where it's mainly a mass gain plan...a mass gain plan with just enough fat burning thrown in to allow a person to keep fat gains at bay while they build muscle at about the same rate they would if they went out an all out bulk fest.
I've had some guys gain an average of more then one pound per week of muscle while shedding almost that much fat, but I'd say an average person can probably expect a consistent 2 to 4 pounds of solid muscle per month while keeping fat gains at bay.
In addition to the training plan itself, I tried to put a lot of good information in there about genetics, diet, setting up a training scheme, and various other topics.
My comment: I read an early version of the book as well as the finished product and I can't too highly recommend it. Kelly has the ability to put complicated concepts into simple words, which is the mark of someone who truly understands their topic, and even if you don't use the program you'll still learn a ton from it.
10. Where can people find out more about your ideas, theories and products?
I have a website www.higher-faster-sports.com. You can read my articles there or check out the store to see my other products; I've got books for vertical jump and speed development in addition to the new book.
12-14-2006, 04:42 PM
...I couldn't find anything on the net that was any more revealing than his interview with Robb...
When did Robb interview Jay Schroeder and how did I miss it? Is it in one of the PMs?
12-14-2006, 05:09 PM
No, it never made it into the PM. You can read it here:
12-28-2006, 08:11 AM
I picked up his nutrition plan. I thought I'd give it a try. It pretty much goes completely against the grain of zone and paleo, from what I understand. It's more like a bodybuilders' diet but the insight is that you bulk for 10 days and cut for 4 days. I guess it might be considered IF of sorts.
Anyone else tried what he recommends? After being on zone and paleo for more than 6 months, I'm finding it very hard to ingest that many calories. With sports and my size, I need to be at around 5000 calories per day. Not going to happen on paleo, I think, unless i literally eat a horse.
12-28-2006, 08:26 AM
I would think that the paleo diet would offer the easiest way to get in more calories because you can liberally use healthy oils (olive, coconut, palm, palm kernal, grassfed lard/tallow/suet). In terms of caloric density as it relates to volume of food, oils can't be beat.
12-28-2006, 09:28 AM
Yams, sweet potatoes for the carbs and nuts, nut butters, oils. Neal touched on this but there are certainly calorically dense foods that make getting that 5k doable. A can of coconut milk has ~800cals alone. You may need to up your carb intake to ratchet up your appetite. Paleo is just a tool to use if you want to increase phytonutrient intake and minimize allergen/autoimmune potentials. I think it is pretty easy to take in adequate calories on this plan, but if it seems too hard go a more conventional route. That said, rice pasta and the like are not more calorically dense than the aforementioned foods, but they are a fraction the nutrient density.
12-28-2006, 09:49 AM
I am not actively trying to gain weight presently (have to get my back working properly) but here are some suggestions.
1. 75% lean, grassfed ground beef. Can get it for about $4.10 a pound delivered (50 pounds). http://www.grasslandbeef.com/StoreFront.bok
2. See what Neal said. I really like coconut oil.
3. If you can find them, free range eggs. Nice protein + fat shot. I've read lots of positives about eating them raw: http://www.13.waisays.com/egg-yolk.htm
4. Not paleo, but unpasteurized, grassfed whole milk packs a lot of calories if you can tolerate it.
12-28-2006, 09:52 AM
Guys, thanks. I'm most interested in your comments on his plan. He seemed a well respected guy in the sports training community so I'm giving his nutrition plan more attention than I normally would. Still, he calls for 5-10lbs weight gain in 10 days followed by a near equivalent loss in 4 days, leaving a 1lb net gain of muscle. I wonder if that is realistic (and healthy). I guess it might mimic paleo feasting and famine type feeding. Do you think this is worth a try?
Chris - we posted at the same time. Grass fed for sure. I go for US Wellness and order 50lbs of 87% lean hamburger. Every day I take 4 patties out of the freezer and eat them. I'm going to just have to add more oil to everything. I do have coconut oil. On eggs, those are nice to have but they really don't add that many calories or protein compared to other sources. Where do you find grassfed, unpasteurized whole milk (I'm picturing a cow in my backyard)?
12-28-2006, 10:33 AM
I'd say that with a high calorie intake, 50%+ will be from fats for daily energy requirements, the rest is of course protein and fats. You don't have to go up 5lbs and down 4lbs to get 1lb of muscle. I like to stick with paleo most of the day, higher fats, and keep majority of carbs to the pwo window of 1-2hours. Seems to work well for me.
You can also look at the whole Zone with 5x fat, that will give you plenty of calories, but I think trying to eat zone ratios is such a pain in the ass. Or you can make your own like a Zone approach with 0.5x carbs, 1x protein, 3-5x fat and then add in a pwo meal high in protein and carbs on workout days only.
12-28-2006, 02:47 PM
To find the grassfed milk, you'll have to ask around. I had a coworker tell me about a woman that sells it...
12-28-2006, 03:03 PM
www.realmilk.org is another way to find sources of raw milk in your hood, and then see if any of those are grassfed.
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