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Ari Kestler
06-17-2008, 08:43 AM
So what are everyone's thoughts on that monster of a thread?

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=20754 w/f/s

Basic gist... A person on strict zone started eating sizeable portions of icecream everynight and noticed his body fat% dropping, improved performance, all the good with none of the bad.....People speculated that ice cream was relatively low glycemic and the starvation nature of zone inevitably reaches a point where you plateau in terms of improved body comp....ice cream helped compensate for this... one person went as far as to take his same diet and sub straight fat instead of ice cream for the difference....wasn't as successful as ice cream....

I'm assuming that is the basic idea of the thread, I haven't read every single post, as mostly just skimming...

So thoughts?

I structure my IF into 3/4 meals on most workout days....ideally I like to workout on an empty stomach, but this never happens due to my schedule, so most days I eat something like

3 eggs and a larabar at 12

A bag of veggies and 6-8oz of chicken with olive oil at 2

Workout at 4

Eat a huge meal of veggies, chicken (8-12 oz), fat (25-75g depending on how I am cooking dinner) at 630-7

Sometimes at 730-8 I'll have an apple with almond butter (for me this is overkill as I can't eat less than 1/3 of a jar of almond butter in one sitting), I have noticed fasting is easier the next day when I have a lot of fat as my last meal...which makes sense...

I was wondering what would happen if I ate ice cream form 730-8... the combination of summer and the stress of studying has left me with a bit of a sweet tooth, which I normally never have...so I was thinking about black boxing this for a bit....

Steven Low
06-17-2008, 09:07 AM
Shrug. I eat lots of ice cream (as stated in that thread). The people I've talked to have seen it works. Go for it I guess? lol.

Gant Grimes
06-17-2008, 09:53 AM
Do it. The biggest benefit of the Zone diet is added fat. Most CF Zoners don't eat near enough; the .7 multiplier is a joke. I'd suspect those same people could eat a Quarter Pounder three times a week and still have positive body comp changes because they're starving themselves. But ice cream tastes better.

I'm also pretty sure that Paleo Man would've really enjoyed Marble Slab. Dig in.

John Alston
06-17-2008, 11:37 AM
Makes me want to post a thread about how I've been eating nothing but pasta and losing weight and gaining muscle just to see their heads explode.

Don't read threads like that on that wacky forum, but thanks for posting it here, since just the mention ice cream inspired me to get some Haagen Dazs.

Arien Malec
06-17-2008, 01:58 PM
I'm also pretty sure that Paleo Man would've really enjoyed Marble Slab. Dig in.

Paleo Man try Marble Slab. Paleo Man say "Meat bad. Greens bad. Me want Marble Slab."

Gant Grimes
06-17-2008, 02:56 PM
Makes me want to post a thread about how I've been eating nothing but pasta and losing weight and gaining muscle just to see their heads explode.

Don't read threads like that on that wacky forum, but thanks for posting it here, since just the mention ice cream inspired me to get some Haagen Dazs.

There is always a lesser evil. I had a friend in college who lost 80 pounds on nothing but beer and Ramen Noodles. He was already and alcoholic, so all he did was replace Whataburger, pizza, etc. with some pseudo-pasta, MSG, and sodium.

Leo Soubbotine
06-17-2008, 03:53 PM
I lost 30 lbs when I didn't know anything about eating and exercising by doing 1 hr cardio twice daily and eating like this during the week:

5 am - empty stomach cardio
6-30 am - 2 cakes at 7/11 (about 500 cals a piece) and large sweet tea.

noon - all you can eat buffet (and I can eat my money's worth - my rule - is a plate of food per buck spent!)

6pm - cardio
8pm - wendy's grilled chicken sandwich, salad with dressing and 2x chili.

I switched it to better diet once I learned more, but it worked though :D

Mike ODonnell
06-18-2008, 08:04 AM
Hey....if it works, it works. Maybe people are not eating enough as it is and the spike in calories helps them keep the metabolism up....maybe the body likes full fat ice cream.....all I know...whole milk builds muscles....full fat ice cream burns fat......skim milk/fat free ice cream will make you fat.

Kevin Perry
06-18-2008, 10:58 AM
I love me some Ben and Jerry's a couple times I week. I gorge on that stuff and have never noticed in icrease in body fat so there must be something to it. mmm Ice Cream.

Paul McKirdy
06-18-2008, 11:21 AM
Doo eet man.

I also add 1/3 cup of a raw nut mix. Pecans, almonds and walnuts. I never started sleeping so good in my life since adding ice cream and good nuts every night :)

Mike ODonnell
06-18-2008, 11:38 AM
I never started sleeping so good in my life since adding ice cream and good nuts every night :)

something to be said about getting your blood sugar to drop while feeling no cravings before going to bed.....the body likes fat! I bet there is an increase in GH response to go along with it that aids in the overall fat burning effect. Either way....I've noticed more full fat cravings at night...so some cookie dough full fat ice cream might be the answer!

Warrior Ice Cream Diet sounds like a good next book to write.....

Ari Kestler
06-18-2008, 11:40 AM
If you are eating it before bed, isn't it suppressing GH?

Paul McKirdy
06-18-2008, 12:31 PM
That's why I go with Breyers as well. I keep the freezer stocked full with All Natural Cherry Vanilla. I need to add Breyers to my retirement portfolio :).

More fat is also why I add the nut mixture.

Don't intend to hijack and I have read all the ZMA threads, and gather that it is best to take it vs not take as long there are no complications. I have had no complications thus far(three nights taking it so far), so is the consensus just take it at night on as empty a stomach as possible as long you make the sleep window? One theory on the ice cream thing is calcium uptake anyway and if that is true I would see ZMA as only enhancing this even more.

If this is going to divert the current discussion please anyone feel free to start another thread. I have another I am going to start soon anyway under IF as a meal timing question anyway.

Thanks everyone!

Steven Low
06-18-2008, 05:47 PM
something to be said about getting your blood sugar to drop while feeling no cravings before going to bed.....the body likes fat! I bet there is an increase in GH response to go along with it that aids in the overall fat burning effect. Either way....I've noticed more full fat cravings at night...so some cookie dough full fat ice cream might be the answer!

Warrior Ice Cream Diet sounds like a good next book to write.....

Hmm, there's something I've actually been meaning to try out (or get someone to try out) which is namely maybe like 5 minute cold shower right before sleeping keeping everything else the same. From the studies I've been reading over the past couple months increased body temperature is supposed to create a better environment for deeper sleep (non-REM) while increases at least the initial GH pulse at the beginning of sleep.

To relate this into the ice cream perhaps some of the coldness helps spike body temp right before sleep which would subsequently increase GH spike. This obviously probably isn't the only answer because of increased cals with the caloric deficient individuals on the zone... but it's worth a shot.

I ultimately want to see someone do the cold shower straight to sleep and see if that helps. Also, I want to see someone put their ice cream intake maybe in the beginning of the day or after lunch instead of right before bed and see if that makes a difference. My body fat is too low for me to do this and see much difference.. but anyone else wanna give it a shot?


If you are eating it before bed, isn't it suppressing GH?

Only if it's high glycemic load.

Mike ODonnell
06-18-2008, 05:52 PM
I ultimately want to see someone do the cold shower straight to sleep and see if that helps.
Doesn't a cold shower also give a noradrenaline response? Not sure I could go to bed after a shower wakes me up......


Also, I want to see someone put their ice cream intake maybe in the beginning of the day or after lunch instead of right before bed and see if that makes a difference. My body fat is too low for me to do this and see much difference.. but anyone else wanna give it a shot?

My guess....will turn to fat because of possible increased hunger during the day...not too mention the blood sugar crash later may induce more sugar cravings.


It's fun to play around with hormones......

Mike ODonnell
06-18-2008, 05:58 PM
If you are eating it before bed, isn't it suppressing GH?

lower sugar and full fat should be best choice...that and give it an hour or so before bed....not eating while laying down.

Interesting note on the Bryers vs other brands.....not a huge ice cream man but now I just want to give it a shot to see what the heck happens. Will be interesting to walk through the freezer section comparing sugar per serving by brands.

Steven Low
06-18-2008, 05:58 PM
Doesn't a cold shower also give a noradrenaline response? Not sure I could go to bed after a shower wakes me up......




My guess....will turn to fat because of possible increased hunger during the day...not too mention the blood sugar crash later may induce more sugar cravings.


It's fun to play around with hormones......
Meh. I guess that's why it's a pain in the butt to play around with diet sometimes. :(

Cold shower does lots of things methinks. Aside from spiking body temp.

Mike ODonnell
06-18-2008, 06:14 PM
Cold shower does lots of things methinks. Aside from spiking body temp.

supposedly increases lymph circulation (aka detoxification and waste removal from cells)....that and it makes me scream like a fightened girl when I turn the knob a little too far to the cold side.....

Paul McKirdy
06-18-2008, 07:11 PM
I ultimately want to see someone do the cold shower straight to sleep and see if that helps. Also, I want to see someone put their ice cream intake maybe in the beginning of the day or after lunch instead of right before bed and see if that makes a difference. My body fat is too low for me to do this and see much difference.. but anyone else wanna give it a shot?


Funny I have been taking, what do you call it, alternating temperature showers at night as well, so I guess I wouldn't be a good control. But I am, however, still dropping tons of body fat at the moment from too many years at a desk and not paying attention to fitness. I am doing the alternating temps for increased recovery seems to work, maybe its helping on the BF front too combined with the ice cream and really good diet, plus ZMA now too. Plus starting this week I have made greens kale, baby spinach or collards an absolute definite intake. Shrug...

But I know I did heavy squats yesterday and felt dynamite this morning and did 225# bar chain loaded box squats explosively and shrugs tonight and still feel fantastic. Could have done tons more but pulled the plug for fear of overdoing things. Damn it I'm rambling again...

I guess I wouldn't want to cut the ice cream vs extremely cold shower or ice bath due to different functional purposes from what I understand. And I sure would miss that ice cream. mmmm iiiice cream. Oops, I drooled a little. I think the concept is interesting though, and would also be interested in any measured impact.

Cal Jones
06-26-2008, 01:47 AM
Problem with me is I can't just eat a scoop or two. Once I've opened the tub, that's it - I'll eat until it's all gone. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't lose fat on a tub of H-D a night routine... :p

Mike ODonnell
06-26-2008, 05:57 AM
I tried it....all that sugar gave me the runs.....did help me to go to sleep but found I was waking up too often during the night also.....I did find an interesting small nightime snack for once in a while that did work out alright....spoonful of peanut butter...spoonful of full fat ice cream....tastes pretty good....