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Camille Lore
07-02-2008, 11:45 AM
Hi all- I jumped over here from Crossfit. I've been CFing for 5 months now, following the BrandX scaled pack versions of the workouts.
I've been struggling with elbow tendinitis for a few months off and on, taking 2-4 days rest, icing, ibu, massage and it comes back with the next high pullup workout (go figure).
I've also been zoning for about 3 months on 11 blocks, with some cheating and I've been just tired all the time. I don't get that energy people talk about at all. In fact, I had more energy when I first started CF than now, and before zone. The only time I have energy now is when I take allergy meds with pseudoephedrine in them.
I'm 37, 5'4", 143lbs. I also swim short, intense (for me) sessions 2-3 times a week for about 20-25 minutes during lunch. I sleep about 8 hours a night and sit at a desk all day.
My question- do I need to take a break? (Been 10 weeks since I took a break other than occasional missed wo), or should I look into other things as a cause? Note- I've always been colder than other people, have a few degree lower body temp, bad immunity until the past 6 months, and my weight loss has been kind of slow lately. I'm reluctant to spend $ on tests if I'm just pushing a bit too much for a newbie. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

Allen Yeh
07-02-2008, 11:50 AM
Take at least a week break. Just enjoy yourself, go outside, swim, take hikes. If you must go into the gym or workout I'd focus on prehab/mobility exercises and stretching.

I found when I was following the main site WOD I'd force myself to take a week every 3-4 weeks. I'd cut the volume down by half on all the workouts and focus on things I'd neglected.

Dave Van Skike
07-02-2008, 12:54 PM
CF plus Zone is a great weightloss program, but then, so is Curves. Of course you're tired. Five months of experience, high output and low food.

I get impeccable results with the following recovery program.

Drink Beer, Eat food, Take Naps. Chill.

If you're feeling frisky talk a walk.

Chuck Kechter
07-02-2008, 01:15 PM
CF plus Zone is a great weightloss program, but then, so is Curves. Of course you're tired. Five months of experience, high output and low food.

I get impeccable results with the following recovery program.

Drink Beer, Eat food, Take Naps. Chill.

If you're feeling frisky talk a walk.

During your off time, also think about other passive and active recovery methods...

Jaccuzi. Suana. Message. Hammock. Yoga. JM. Et cetera...

Mike ODonnell
07-02-2008, 01:15 PM
Being tired all the time is not good. Take some time off from working out....you won't lose muscle. Take some time off from the zone too....just eat heatlhy and see how your energy levels feel in a week. Sound just burned out....

Steve Liberati
07-02-2008, 01:21 PM
yeah what they said. Also try 2 on/1 off as opposed to 3 on/ 1 off. That, and cutting down on long metcons (over 10 mins), increasing food take (while maintaining quality) and sleeping like its going out of style (don't forget your ZMA!) has worked really well for me over the last few months.

Garrett Smith
07-02-2008, 01:31 PM
All of the above is spot on.

Too much output (exercise, stress), not enough input (food, rest). Fix it now or it will only get worse.

No metcons longer than 5 minutes.

Camille Lore
07-02-2008, 01:48 PM
Thank you all for the advice. I'll take it and let you know how it helps . :)

Derek Simonds
07-02-2008, 01:49 PM
Man we got some people with brilliant advice on this board! There is nothing that needs to be said other than what has already been brought up.

Dave your new sig line is spot on.

Dave Van Skike
07-02-2008, 02:58 PM
Man we got some people with brilliant advice on this board! There is nothing that needs to be said other than what has already been brought up.

Dave your new sig line is spot on.

Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.

Liam Dougherty Springer
07-02-2008, 03:08 PM
I can't help but want more information as to the choices for foods, scheduling of food intake, meal sizes, and how the foods are being measured.

The big draw back of the zone is the complexity of its implementation. I actualy think that at least the first zone book does not really stress the importance of folllowing a paleo style diet as far as food choices even his meal plans and referenced food choices are heavy in dairy and allow some grains and desert type items.

I would suggest reading the article "42 ways to skin the zone" by Robb Wolf aviliable in the Performance menu store. I would also suggest nutritiondata.com for referencing nutritional content and I would especialy suggest uping fat content. The sources that work for me are avocado, Coconut, and Extra virgin Olive Oil.

I must defer first however to the recomendations above these people have a tremendous knowledge base and have only helped me tremendousely with any advice they have offered. Perhaps while you are taking a break you can further reserch the nutrition plan which may benefit you more.

Other than the article mentioned above Dr. Loren cordains book The Paleo Diet I found very helpfull as far as better understanding food choices.


I should mention I am a CFer and a Zoner with a much elevated fat intake (3-5x)however I do not typicaly freak out when I nibble outside the lines I just find it a fairly solid premis for the amount of food my body requires. Oh and before IF I needed to maintain close to 1 gram of protien per pound of lean body mass in order to feel energetic and recovered from exercise.

Thats more than enough from me

Steven Low
07-02-2008, 05:45 PM
Someone really nees to write an article on overtraining/undertraining. There really has to be at least 5+ threads a week in CF forums alone ranging from various reasons.

I will try to do it.. but I can't guarantee anything anytime soon.

Mike ODonnell
07-02-2008, 06:39 PM
Someone really nees to write an article on overtraining/undertraining. There really has to be at least 5+ threads a week in CF forums alone ranging from various reasons.

I will try to do it.. but I can't guarantee anything anytime soon.

High volume/intensity exercise done way too often and long term low calories diet with OCD zone behavior and no off days (non-diet) = recipe for burnout, injury and halt to weight loss

Not a full article but sums it up...I bet it messes with more women then men....hormonal thing probably...that and their "cheat" days are probably not high in calories at all

Liam Dougherty Springer
07-02-2008, 07:05 PM
High volume/intensity exercise done way too often and long term low calories diet with OCD zone behavior and no off days (non-diet) = recipe for burnout, injury and halt to weight loss

Not a full article but sums it up...I bet it messes with more women then men....hormonal thing probably...that and their "cheat" days are probably not high in calories at all


I thought about this thread for a minute and realized that I never go a full three months of CFing without takeing a week off at least.

Was told that when I first started by a man who had been CF certifide and doing CF for many years.

Whenever I overtrain my most glaring symptoms are irritated tired and I can't get to sleep or sleep through the night thats when its time for lots of rapid nutrition and a rest day or two.

Steven Low
07-02-2008, 07:45 PM
High volume/intensity exercise done way too often and long term low calories diet with OCD zone behavior and no off days (non-diet) = recipe for burnout, injury and halt to weight loss

Not a full article but sums it up...I bet it messes with more women then men....hormonal thing probably...that and their "cheat" days are probably not high in calories at all
Slightly more in depth than that. ;)

Camille Lore
07-03-2008, 06:10 AM
For the last month or so, I haven't tracked my food on the weekends.
Last weekend, I went to a PA Dutch festival and ate whatever. I even ate some pretzel nibbles or whatever those things are out of a bag when I got home. I actually felt better after just eating what I wanted, but I bet you're right that I didn't come even close to probably 1200 cals that day.
This morning on the way to work I pretty much ate a whole container of fresh blueberries.
Steven-you're right, someone should write one. I ran across something from Glassman I think that said people undertrain and can really handle more. Coming from a couple of years of laziness to 5 months of CF and then adding a few CF Endurance WOs on top during the week I think I just bit off too much.
Went to bed very early last night, ate what I wanted when I got home. Feel a bit more refreshed today.
Off to finish the blueberries...

Camille Lore
07-07-2008, 07:53 PM
Thanks to your suggestions, I've taken the last few days off including from the Zone. Although it's been hard to try to get good caloric intake without counting and tracking, I feel much better. Maybe it's the rest, maybe it's just eating whatever. I've also been making sure to take a multivit and vitamin C. Also been sleeping about 10 hrs a night.
One thing I have noticed in the past few days is that when I shower, there is a LOT of hair in the drain after. Does this have any significance?
I'll be taking about 2 more days off and then getting back to a scaled down CF routine.
Thanks so much for your help-I feel much better now.

Tirzah Harper
07-09-2008, 12:31 PM
I agree that most people CAN handle doing more than they currently do - but it has to come from somewhere. If I were to suddenly get a physically active job (please! make my year!), I'd be sleeping like a baby and eating a LOT more than I do now - and loving it! If I were to get a physically active job, have to go around on the same amount of sleep and food as I do now - or worse yet, go to Zoning on 11 blocks, which I KNOW I have to eat more than that - I'd be feeling pretty crappy in short order.
In my personal experience, I don't lose bodyfat unless I'm healthy and happy. If I get sick, guess what? Fat stays on. If I'm stressed out, same thing. If I'm not recovering enough to be ready to at least go hard the next day...you get the picture.

Right now I'm doing more Gant Grimes' hybrid programming and very few WODs. I came back from vacation to set three PRs on Tuesday and went in this morning to completely ditch my workout after having to bail on easy lifts when my brain just couldn't hang onto things. So I just played around after that.

Eh, I have only personal experience, no expertise, but I offer it anyway because sometimes it helps.;)

Chris Bardwell
07-09-2008, 01:21 PM
I find taking Rhodiola and going for a good social dinner and beer with friends helps me recover. I make sure I eat whatever I want (I avoid fast food) and drink a good amount of alcohol and I really enjoy the whole thing. A celebration of sorts to reward myself for training and whatever life has thrown at me, I will normally eat very sparingly the afternoon before a feast.
I will always fast the following morning but I eat so much it makes sense, then go back to my Art Devany style eating and lifestyle of moderation.

I will do this sometimes once or twice a week and sometimes once a month depending on my schedule, it helps keep me sane and helps me feel better as being too strict isnt good for the body or soul, we by nature are made to indulge and over eat on occasion.

So basically that is my method to avoid feeling worn down, took me a while to figure out but it works.

Camille Lore
07-11-2008, 05:54 AM
Thanks again. I just took a little over a week off and went out of town for a few days. I tried to eat a lot, but I realize that I probably underate more while I wasn't zoning! However, I do feel more rested and have more energy now.
My nagging elbow tendinitis that I've been struggling with for about a month seems better now too.
Now, to formulate a plan for returning to training and losing a bit more fat...
Another thought- I really have no idea what my intake should be...Tirzah- I think your Daily Plate shows you aiming for around 1400 cals a day?

Tirzah Harper
07-11-2008, 07:02 AM
Camille, I think you're right, but that's their formula for my height/weight aiming to lose weight.
I haven't been tracking food since vacation and I'm not sure if I want to start up again or not. I've enjoyed not having to remember and quantify what I eat; I'm just not sure how much I need to watch how much I eat at this point to maintain where I'm at. I think I'll go a few weeks of eating well but not tracking, at least.
So if you plug your height, weight, and weight goals into a site such as daily plate, what do they give you for daily calorie goal?

Camille Lore
07-11-2008, 09:32 AM
If I put in "very active" and " lose 1 lb per week", it tells me to eat 2,071 calories a day.
If I use the "moderately active" I think it's around 1700 per day.
I used "moderately active" for awhile now, but noticed before I started zoning that I would lose when I ate 1400. I wasn't sure if that was healthy though bc it seemed pretty low.
I sit at a desk all day and don't track my exercise. However, I do swim about 3 times a week during lunch and do the CFE workouts. I really don't know how much I should be eating. 11 blocks has been anywhere from 1400-1700 a day for me, with cheating.
I feel pretty lost and don't want to undereat.