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Michael Hays
07-07-2008, 07:19 PM
Hi! I've been lurking around for months, and finally had a question that I think would be better answered here than at CF.

Long story short....I am 6'1", roughly 160-165lbs, 22years old. I have fairly visible abs, belly fat has never been a problem for me, I've just always had unsightly side-fat/lovehandles/what-have-you, that never, ever, EVER, goes away. It's infuriating.

Vain, I know, but I'm still relatively young and would love to get rid of it. So I guess I am just looking for some affirmation. IF seems to be a simple solution. A lot of people have had great success from what I have read.

I figured I'd start out fasting M-F, eating roughly between Noon - 6pm, and taking weekends off. I am tempted to just jump in 7-days a week, but it seems this is the better alternative??

Fat loss is my number one goal for this stretch, but I cannot afford to lose any muscle, so the amount I should be eating is where I'm getting stuck. I don't mind counting calories, as long is it isn't as meticulous as the zone requires. Should I be shooting for a certain number every day? Is there a Pro/Carb/Fat ratio I should try to stick to? Or is just eating healthy enough?

My 2nd question is about fruit. I love it. Especially when I zone'd, it made filling up those carb blocks so much easier. I have read a lot of people cautioning about eating too much though. How much is too much though? Is eating a couple apples, oranges, and a couple handful of berries every day too much? I know veggies are preferable, I just can't eat 4-heads of broccoli every day. One alternative I've seen recommended is not eating as many carbs, and upping the fat. Is this still a viable option for IF? Eating extra nuts, almond butter, and olive oil to offset lower carb intake?

I think I have a hundred more questions, but this is turning into a novel. My apologies, and thanks!

Liam Dougherty Springer
07-07-2008, 08:22 PM
i relate to your information overload sounding post. i have been studying nutrition for quite some time now and have finaly begun to grasp how to properly implement my foods.

What it really comes down to is what should you choose to eat and when should it be eaten.

I personaly am a IFer who choses foods from a paleolithic aproach and i use my understanding of the theory behind the zone along with my understanding of nutritional needs during post workout restoration to decide when i should eat what.

To make it very basic, and there are people on this forum who could do a great job of educating you as to why, this is what I do. (I strongly suggest looking at the articles availiable at the CA store dealing with nutrition)

Fast about 16 hours a day with 1 or two days a week which I eat all day. and 2 or 3 days a month where I fast 20+ hours. I eat fruit only after I work out or in a snack a few hours before I work out if i have been on a long or active fast. I typically eat very little or no food before I work out fruit and protien after I work out and fat and protein for dinner (maybe broccoli or some light green salad). Throghout the day my protein and carbs are balanced like the zone but not at every meal. I try and eat a large dinner with at least two hours to digest before bed.

I have found that through IF I have been able to reduce my blocks from 21 to 16 and I way 175 at 5' 10" I did this gradualy and uped my fat from 3gm per block to 6gm or more. In this way I have been able to keep from losing muscle and increase my work out recovery while reducing my carbohydrate intake. This makes it easier to fit all my blocks in and gives me more time to run off my body fat. i too had a problem with belly fat/love handles. This is typicaly a response to insulin resistance and will be helped tremendously through IFing and proper meal placement.

Well that works for me but I have to say i beleive strongly in always switching it up as far as the placement of eating/fastin windows during the day. Humens weren't born with a day planner we were born with instincts do what feels good. Sometimes things do feel odd before we realize we feel better but if we feel worse it probably aint beneficial.

Thats more than enough from me

Darryl Shaw
07-09-2008, 06:55 AM
Is there a Pro/Carb/Fat ratio I should try to stick to? Or is just eating healthy enough?

As long as your diet is varied and your calorie intake is adequate there's no real need to worry too much about macronutirent ratios so just calculate your protein requirement which is between 1.2 - 1.8g per kilogram per day then make sure the rest of your calorie intake comes from natural foods.

My 2nd question is about fruit. I love it. Especially when I zone'd, it made filling up those carb blocks so much easier. I have read a lot of people cautioning about eating too much though. How much is too much though? Is eating a couple apples, oranges, and a couple handful of berries every day too much? I know veggies are preferable, I just can't eat 4-heads of broccoli every day. One alternative I've seen recommended is not eating as many carbs, and upping the fat. Is this still a viable option for IF? Eating extra nuts, almond butter, and olive oil to offset lower carb intake?

I think I have a hundred more questions, but this is turning into a novel. My apologies, and thanks!

Nobody ever got fat eating fruit so feel free to make them a major part of your diet.
I know a lot of people advocate replacing carbs with fats but personally I think it's a dumb idea as it significantly reduces your antioxidant intake.

Michael Hays
07-11-2008, 08:41 AM
Thanks for the advice! I did have one more question... several times this week, I had workouts after my window had closed (my schedule is a little hectic at the moment). Should I be eating a small meal, or a piece of fruit afterwards? or just stick to lots of water?

Michael Hays
08-12-2008, 10:06 AM
Alright, well I've IF'd for a little over a month now. I definitely prefer this to the zone, I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to counting out every individual almond.

I guess my problem is, nothing has changed. Still making adequate performance gains (no complaints there), and energy levels have been fine (generally work out after eating window closes), but as far as body composition, I seem to be about where I was when I started. I know 1 month isn't a terribly long time, but I wanted to reevaluate what I was eating.

I kept track of what I ate a for a week or so (fitday), to get an idea of how much I was eating and ended up just under 3000calories/day (roughly 50% fat, 25 protien/carbs). I believe I have stayed pretty close to those numbers throughout the month, though I'm sure they've changed.

Should I simply focus on eating less? Or cut out more carbs? Should I throw out the daily protein shake (3cups milk/whey powder/almonds/blueberries)? It's awfully convenient (and tasty), but if it's preventing me from losing weight I'll let it go.

Mike ODonnell
08-12-2008, 01:41 PM
3000 cal a day for weight loss is way too high (aka ain't gonna happen unless you are training like an olympian). Also just cycle carbs. Carbs on strength training workout days only......protein/fat on cardio/metcon days. Do your metcon/cardio fasted with short intervals first then move into lifestyle activity to keep burning the fat. (that's every advanced ebook on fat loss selling for $49 widdled down to one paragraph for free...enjoy)

Joe has a good story here about what he found to work for him.
http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/08/12/joes-lean-and-ripped-transformation/

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-12-2008, 06:12 PM
Also just cycle carbs. Carbs on strength training workout days only......protein/fat on cardio/metcon days.
http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/08/12/joes-lean-and-ripped-transformation/

Sorry for the high jack but.... Mike why the carbs on the strength day?

Mike ODonnell
08-12-2008, 06:22 PM
Sorry for the high jack but.... Mike why the carbs on the strength day?

To get through a workout, keep the intensity high, lift more, create more muscle tears and recover right after (as that is the purpose of a strength/weight day). Doing high carbs on metcon/cardio days is a waste of time in the fat loss equation. The amount of carbs is always the individual point that one must fine tune to balance fat loss with muscle.

Steve Forman
08-13-2008, 11:25 AM
To get through a workout, keep the intensity high, lift more, create more muscle tears and recover right after (as that is the purpose of a strength/weight day). Doing high carbs on metcon/cardio days is a waste of time in the fat loss equation. The amount of carbs is always the individual point that one must fine tune to balance fat loss with muscle.

Trying to fine tune my knowlege here: carbs means fruit and veggies only or is a there a time for starchy carbs???

Oh yeah, thanks for posting this Michael, I am also getting imput over load, and need to simplify.

Steve

joe waguespack
08-13-2008, 12:35 PM
Trying to fine tune my knowlege here: carbs means fruit and veggies only or is a there a time for starchy carbs???

Oh yeah, thanks for posting this Michael, I am also getting imput over load, and need to simplify.

Steve

Steve, I think it will differ for different people. I include starchy carbs such as white potatoes , sweet potatoes and also oatmeal and fruit on my heavy weight training days and just fruit and veggies on my metcon days and have been responding nicely to that mix. I think some will be more sensitive to starchy carbs and opt to stay away from them. I am by no means an expert on this , I just noticed a boost in performance and recovery when i added in more starchy carbs on my heavy days.

Mike ODonnell
08-13-2008, 01:56 PM
Trying to fine tune my knowlege here: carbs means fruit and veggies only or is a there a time for starchy carbs???

Oh yeah, thanks for posting this Michael, I am also getting imput over load, and need to simplify.

Steve

If you are already lean and active...have fruit with veggies as you will most likely not care more about fat loss and can handle the carbs without spilling over into fat cells.

If you are 25+% Bodyfat and need to lose fat, dump the fruit on non-strength training days....as you don't want to burn those sugars for fuel...you want to burn fat.

Steve Forman
08-13-2008, 02:17 PM
thanks for the clarification!

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-14-2008, 07:37 PM
To get through a workout, keep the intensity high, lift more, create more muscle tears and recover right after (as that is the purpose of a strength/weight day). Doing high carbs on metcon/cardio days is a waste of time in the fat loss equation. The amount of carbs is always the individual point that one must fine tune to balance fat loss with muscle.

Yeah this is what I thought would be the bennifit after I reflected on the post and the threads intention. I have a tendence to carb up during the first 39 min after a high rep anabolic WO which is what the majority of my metcon work outs are however I realise that my goal is to keep my performance capabilities in tact through glycogen restaration durring periods of high training intensity. I hadn't thought of doing the opposite aproach when anting to lower BF. then the higher carb on strength days would allow for the proper muscle regeneration to maintain mas ahile allowing for any excess carb calories to be stored in the depleted glycogen banks. :cool:

Thanx again Mike.