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View Full Version : US backs statin use for children.


Darryl Shaw
07-09-2008, 06:26 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7496988.stm

I've got a better idea; stop feeding kids crap and make them do some exercise.

Scott Kustes
07-09-2008, 06:28 AM
But that doesn't line the pockets of pharamceutical interests with cash. I fear more and more for the children everyday...they are a testing ground for all kinds of crap.

Garrett Smith
07-09-2008, 08:43 AM
It will only get worse until people are fed up enough to revolt. In a way, I'm actually looking forward to it.

Mike ODonnell
07-09-2008, 11:29 AM
FDA is owned by big Pharma...or best to say "employed".....it's going to have to come down to mass re-education and personal choice to stop taking every pill handed out.

Garrett Smith
07-09-2008, 01:30 PM
Viva la Revolucion!!!

Ari Kestler
07-09-2008, 03:25 PM
The problem isn't pharma or the medical industry. The problem is that people like us make up less than .0001% of the population...that, and parents are more willing to let us prescribe a drug with side effects than convince them to make their kids workout and eat vegetables. I don't know whether it's laziness, lack of belief in healthy eating and exercise, disinformation, misinformation, you name it.... I get really tired of the medical community bashing...it gets old...I think it would be more prudent to direct your criticism against people and less against big bad corporations... corporations provide solutions to problems people are too lazy to figure out on their own, or solve differently. It doesn't make corporations the evil guys.

/rant

Paul McKirdy
07-09-2008, 06:36 PM
The first American Revolution was executed by only a very small percentage of the entire populace ;).

The storm is brewing, and it's about to break. It won't be much longer before the pendulum starts swing back the other direction and cleaning lots of house.

Allen Yeh
07-10-2008, 05:47 AM
I heard about this the other day and got really worked up over it. Sure let's give statins to 8 year olds!

In the US if your kid is being bad in public and you swat them on the ass or pull them by the ear or smack the back of their head, you'll be lucky if someone doesn't call Child Services on you. But if you fatten your kid up like a freaking cow, let them play video games 10 hours a day during the summer and cut back to 4 hours a day during the school year and give them diabetes, high cholesterol....etc that's OK!

My friend's wife worked for 2 of the major pharmaceutical companies as a rep and boy did it leave her with a bad taste in her mouth from what was being pushed down from the top.

Mike ODonnell
07-10-2008, 07:46 AM
The problem is I don't have a TV show....that would solve everything! :)

Paul McKirdy
07-10-2008, 08:34 AM
I recently worked for a pharma services company that managed "meetings" between pharma's and Dr's. Talk about a bad taste...

Pharma companies have more money than anything I could ever imagine, and they willingly give it away to anyone will prescribe their crap. Government regulation is a complete fallacy. They play shell games with what they call what buckets of money that they give to different entities. Bah, I could go on all day. And I am a database professional and worked primarily on reporting and compliance data, so I saw the numbers first hand, it was sickening.

When I visit my parents and watch any TV at all and see commercials for pharma all over the place it sickens me. It's like a twisted Hollywood future come true. So glad I ditched TV years ago...

At some point I'm sure individual people think they are helping, but in the end it's all about the cash...

Garrett Smith
07-10-2008, 08:48 AM
Capitalism (in this country's version) thrives on consistent growth.

The only way the medical industry grows is:
More sick people.
More expensive treatments.

Someday the bank will be broken and the men behind the curtain will get their comeuppance.

Camille Lore
07-17-2008, 09:30 AM
I live with someone who would rather take medications and suffer side effects than eat properly, exercise and take fish oil. It makes me nuts. She eats maybe 700 calories of large chunks of protein and starchy carbs most days and wonders why she feels like crap. And her daughter, who lives off 100 calorie packs and soda had to go to the ER for belly pain-turns out she's constipated. God forbid she eat vegetables or that the parents tell her she needs to. :mad:

Mike ODonnell
07-17-2008, 12:31 PM
I get really tired of the medical community bashing...it gets old...I think it would be more prudent to direct your criticism against people and less against big bad corporations... corporations provide solutions to problems people are too lazy to figure out on their own, or solve differently. It doesn't make corporations the evil guys.

So...if crack was legal, we should not blame the manufacturers of crack...or the dealers...it's not their fault people want the crack so that makes it all ok? There's no moral obligation to show (and not hide) studies that show harm to people taking the crack? If the medical community gets funded by the pharma, educated by pharma, and pharma's only goal is to increase profits....how are they being misrepresented here? A doctor has a choice whether to prescribe...or not. You can separate life saving medications from lazy lifestyle medications. I'm all for life saving.....I'm not all for lazy lifestyles. I know many doctors who tell their patients to eat better and exercise...yet you know they (the patients) won't because they know a pill covered by insurance is easier to do. We need doctors....and more good ones out there to help change things one person at a time.

Ari Kestler
07-17-2008, 06:54 PM
Getting parents to feed their kids healthy and exercise even after you extol all of the life long benefits is next to impossible for one reason or another. And I'm not even talking about putting them on paleo or zone. I'm talking about even adding a little broccoli to the plate and less soda. From the little I've seen, parents either don't care, don't have good habits themselves, or are genuinely skeptical ("they are kids, they'll grow out of it, they have their whole life to be healthy, I don't want to be a bad guy, my kids already resent me, yada, yada, yada")... so unfortunately, even after telling the parents about how much easier and effective diet and exercise are, and all of the potential drug interactions, side effects we are left between a rock and a hard place.

Do we let the kid just continue to spiral out of control, eventually developing DM and other complications of obesity, or do we prescribe a drug?

Believe me when I tell you that every doctor would much rather prescribe diet and exercise than a medication, not just from your perspective either, think about the paper work, the liability, the wasted time to follow up, the list goes on and on...

Derek Weaver
07-17-2008, 07:20 PM
I gotta go with Mike on this one Ari. Pharma doesn't want us getting healthier, they want us getting over one symptom and moving onto the next.

Most doctors don't bother to really see this considering the "continuing education" by pharmaceutical companies. I can't argue that doctors would rather not have to prescribe a pill, but I don't think that they mind the check from the insurance company or the co-pay either that goes along with the follow up. Life saving drugs... good... like Mike said though, everyday lifeSTYLE drugs that have shown to have a long list of side effects and tend to have little efficacy... very very bad.

Considering the sorry state of most physicians' health, I'd seriously doubt whether or not they know what proper diet and exercise are... though they will tell you to consult with them before you start a new regimen... which they are typically wholly unable to critique properly.

Mike ODonnell
07-17-2008, 07:32 PM
I am going to make up t-shirts that say "Obese Children is Child Abuse".....wonder if that will sell well

Doctors need to give their patients a wake up call (telling their patient to lose 20lbs or plan on dying 20years earlier...probably gets more response than just saying they need to exercise more)

Parents need to get a wake up call (as they are slowly killing their own kids and need to be held accountable....parents get in more trouble for spanking a kid than they do making their kids overweight and sick)

People need less "disease" names (which are just crutches as it takes away from their personal power and sense of control of their health)

Pharma companies....wants to sell more products....making people healthy is not good for business. There's a difference between the life saving ones.....and the other things that are not neccessary.

It all starts with trying to stop blaming things ...people ...McDonalds ....genetics ....and just taking full control of what we need to do right now. More role models....more success stories....people desperately need inspiration.

That and make drugs really expensive and out of pocket....maybe that will motivate people to try other things first.

The internet is a powerful tool....as the truth can get out there....people can find answers....can't make anyone take responsibility for themselves, but at least we can help educate people more.

Derek Weaver
07-17-2008, 11:19 PM
It all starts with trying to stop blaming things ...people ...McDonalds ....genetics ....and just taking full control of what we need to do right now. More role models....more success stories....people desperately need inspiration.

That and make drugs really expensive and out of pocket....maybe that will motivate people to try other things first.


The key word that tends to come up when people start the blame game is "I".... "I have crappy genetics", "I wish I would get in shape, but I don't have time", "I just can't resist the [insert fast food or junk food here]", "I just don't care"

People will get inspired when their kids die before they do, as morbid as that is to think about. What is it? Something like kids who are 10 years old now are part of the generation that will be the first to not outlive their parents on average?

This one of the few things i can get truly fired up about if you hadn't noticed. People not taking responsibility, or just not caring about their health and in turn, creating a public burden "irks" me.

Camille Lore
07-18-2008, 06:06 AM
Short story- about 1.5 yrs ago I went in for a checkup bc my hands and feet were always cold. Doc sent me for bloodwork. I weighed somewhere between 160 and 170 then bc my diet was poor and I wasn't exercising. My fasting blood sugar came back as 100. I just realized a few days ago that this is the lowest end of pre-diabetes bc somone posted a question to Dr. G on this board.
My doctor never told me that, never mentioned losing weight, watching my nutrition. I think if I had heard that when the results came back, I might have done something earlier. I am slightly pissed that nobody mentioned it.
And then last night I watched as my friend's daughter ate a huge ice cream cone after not eating more than 3 pieces of broccoli with Chinese food for dinner.
It's frustrating bc I from what I have learned about nutrition and exercise, I know what this diet is leading to. And the mom's a nurse. You'd think she would be more concerned, but it's a divorced family,yadda yadda

Garrett Smith
07-18-2008, 07:10 AM
Don't get me started on the nurse topic...on average, they are the sickest people I see, coming in with the strangest things.

They work an insanely hard job, at often insane hours, for very little appreciation. That, combined with crappy diets and stress leads to big problems.

Ari Kestler
07-18-2008, 09:12 AM
All of you are correct in saying that most of the medical community isn't adequately informed about correct nutrition...according to your standards, but even their recommendations which you will find pretty basic and common sense (less sugar, less soda, less juice, less fried foods, less salt, more vegetables, more vegetables, more vegetables, exercise, exercise, exercise) while not perfect, aren't even being followed. Imagine the looks if you said something like, how about no grains, legumes, or dairy? I know the look because I've gotten it just in discussing it with colleagues and professors.

I agree pharma is out for $, doesn't want us to be healthy, etc, but that isn't really the problem here is it? The problem is that people not taking responsibility.

It shouldn't really be any surprise to any of us, if you are faced with an immediate life threatening illness you waste no time, go to the doctor, ER, whatever and get it looked at, evaluated, taken care of... If you can't see something that is slowly progressively killing you, you aren't going to do anything about it. (you being humans in general here) ........

Mike ODonnell
07-18-2008, 09:29 AM
The problem is that people not taking responsibility.

I think it's a double knock out with lack of responsibility (which could come from the ongoing perception that nothing is our fault and it's because of your genetics that we are sick...which is a load of crap)....but also that the lack of real information to people (the people they listen to the most, aren't trained or schooled to really deal with lifestyle issues....or don't have the time to sit down and explain nutrition to people because the waiting room is overflowing with people).

Sad...but even if a doctor wanted to help...it's not going to work because they won't have the time.

That and most nutritionists I know are usually sick (on meds) and overweight too.

There's no shock value to meds also...they have been excepted as natural and safe just like air and water (I mean how could they be released to the public if they weren't safe right?)....we have been dulled to how potentially dangerous they really can be. Someone needs to stop allowing pharma to advertise meds on TV too....people holding hands smiling playing catch on the beach...while the background softly and quickly says "...may induce heart, kidney, lung and liver failure resulting in death.."...but images are more powerful and lasting than the words.

Camille Lore
07-18-2008, 07:48 PM
I agree. You'd probably get better compliance to tell a patient to take a pill once a day than to sit down and explain nutrition to them, get them to grasp it and then follow it.
A pill is so much easier all around.
What we need to do is make a pill that is real food shrunk down into capsule size. Take one, three times a day and you're set.

Ari Kestler
07-19-2008, 07:14 AM
I agree. You'd probably get better compliance to tell a patient to take a pill once a day than to sit down and explain nutrition to them, get them to grasp it and then follow it.
A pill is so much easier all around.
What we need to do is make a pill that is real food shrunk down into capsule size. Take one, three times a day and you're set.

slippery slope...isn't that exactly what we are trying to get away from? ;)

Camille Lore
07-19-2008, 08:54 AM
Yes, I was being facetious.
;) But I could understand why some doctors might just throw up their hands a write a script-not that I agree.
I like Jay Cohen's frequent statement "Eat real food."

Mike ODonnell
07-19-2008, 01:53 PM
But I could understand why some doctors might just throw up their hands a write a script-not that I agree.

Having worked with a couple doctors I can tell you....after seeing 40 patients a day...working 10 hours a day doing paperwork for insurance....it's easier to give people a pill and send them on their way trying to ease their pain rather than take 10min and explain what they need to eat....because you are not going to get through to most people in 10 min. Hence I was the go to guy for that kind of advice....but since they had to pay for it, most people won't have any interest. Working directly with doctors.....helping them is what needs to be done...as I don't envy what they have to go through.

Another reason to tell people to always work with their doctor when trying to eat better and improve their health....so that when they do get in better health and hopefully get off medications...their doctor can see first hand what is working so he/she can recommend similar strategies for other patients.