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View Full Version : Fish Oil, really this good? How much is too much?


Mike ODonnell
12-15-2006, 07:27 PM
So in Poliquin's latest article he says:

" The Single Best Supplement

Q: What's one supplement that every athlete, weekend warrior, and basically any active person should be taking daily?

A: Fish oil. I was first introduced to fish oil twelve years ago by my friend Mauro DiPasquale. I was over at his house and he had fish oil on the counter. I asked him what he used it for and he said, "Charles, this is the most important supplement ever."

He told me to go to Medline and punch in any disease known to man and the words "fish oil" beside it. He challenged me to find a study that didn't show how fish oil could benefit in the treatment of any disease. I gave up after 86 studies!

Why is it so beneficial? It's in our genes. Humans used to consume 300-400 grams of omega-3s per week. If we consume more than two grams a day now it's considered a lot.

Looking at the body structure of cavemen, they had a lot of muscle mass compared to modern man. They got their omega-3s through the meats they ate. Now, they often ate what the predators left. For example, a lion will eat an antelope from the gut on, so what's left is the skull and long bones. Primitive man would break the skull open and eat the brains. Brains are 60% fat, and 60% of that is DHA, the omega-3. What they've found is that the more brain-sucking was going in those populations, the faster the IQ went up.

Primitive man would also break the bones of the prey and suck the marrow, also rich in omega-3, DHA particularly. DHA is the omega-3 most responsible for brain development while EPA is most associated with reducing inflammation.

My athletes would often recognize each other when sitting around a table because those I'd be training would break out the fish oil during the meal. That's how I got the nickname "the fish oil guy" among athletes. But that's also how I get people so lean so fast.

Anyone who wants to put on muscle and lose fat should be on 30-45 grams of fish oil per day. That's just three tablespoons of fish oil. It would be a pain in the ass with capsules though because that's around 45 capsules per day, but it's easy with a straight oil. "


Here's a question however...is there such a thing as too much fish oil? 30-45 grams a day is alot. Are there people that shouldnt do this? (health conditions) Do excess blood thinning cause more internal problems that are not talked about here? What conditions/diseases would be negatively affected by the lack of blood clotting and increased blood thinning?

Also...what is not mentioned is about Vit A & D levels (more in fish vs cod liver oil). Is 30-45g fish oil going on the verge of toxic A & D levels?

Steve Shafley
12-15-2006, 07:34 PM
There's so much fish oil stuff going on and I haven't ever sorted it out fully.

-Sears' assertion that the more concentrated the oil the better
-Decent brands
-Krill oil? Where does it fit in?
-Massive dosing?
-Caps vs. liquid

Etc.

For the record, I take ~10 Sams Club fish oil caps daily.

Mike ODonnell
12-15-2006, 08:57 PM
There's so much fish oil stuff going on and I haven't ever sorted it out fully.

-Sears' assertion that the more concentrated the oil the better
-Decent brands
-Krill oil? Where does it fit in?
-Massive dosing?
-Caps vs. liquid

For the record, I take ~10 Sams Club fish oil caps daily.

My understanding:
1) Sears promotes concentration (pharma grade) and then pushes his brand at like $80 a bottle in his book Inflammation Nation
2) I know Carlsons and Nordic Naturals have been tested positively by consummerlab.com for having what they say they have on their label.
3) Krill Oil. No idea...but isn't that Mercola's new pitch? Does he sell it too? Will have to go look into that more
4) Massive dosing....I guess that goes back to my orig post, can too much be bad? I guess if you don't want to bleed to death internally from an injury or hermoraging....dunno.
5) I would say liquid over caps as caps add the filler from the caps (more stuff in the body that is not healthy?)...Plus 1 tablespoon = 12 caps roughly?.....so if you go by Poliquin's 30g a day....that's roughly what 6 tablespoons (1 tbsp=5g) or 72 caps a day? Yikes.

Frank Needham
12-16-2006, 11:33 AM
Purely anecdotal (I'd hate to be the dog(s) used in the study!) but strongly supports the use of omegas:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=43798&tools=bot
"Prevention of ischemia-induced ventricular fibrillation by omega 3 fatty acids.

G E Billman, H Hallaq, and A Leaf
Department of Physiology, Ohio State University, Columbus 45210.

Small right arrow pointing to: This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.
Abstract

A specially prepared dog model of myocardial infarction was used to test the efficacy of the long-chain polyunsaturated fish oil omega 3 fatty acids eicosapentaenoic (20:5 n-3) and docosahexaenoic (22:6 n-3) acids to prevent ischemia-induced malignant cardiac arrhythmias. The dogs had sustained a prior experimental myocardial infarction from ligation of the left anterior descending coronary artery, and a hydraulic cuff was implanted around the left circumflex artery at that operation. After recovery from that procedure the animals were tested during a treadmill exercise test. With compression of the left circumflex artery sensitive animals will predictably develop ventricular fibrillation (VF). In such prepared dogs an emulsion of fish oil fatty acids was infused i.v. over a 50- to 60-min period just before the exercise-plus-ischemia test, and the effect on development of VF was recorded. The infusion was 100 ml of a 10% (vol/vol) emulsion of a fish oil concentrate containing 70% omega 3 fatty acids with free eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid composing 33.9% and 25.0% of that total, respectively. Alternatively, some animals similarly received an emulsion containing 5 ml of the free fatty acid concentrate plus 5 ml of a triacylglyerol concentrate containing 65% omega 3 fatty acids with eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid composing 34.0% and 23.6% of that total, respectively. In seven of eight animals the infusion of the fish oil emulsion completely prevented the acute occurrence of VF in the susceptible animals (P < 0.005). In five of five of these animals the subsequent exercise-plus-ischemia test after a similar infusion of an emulsion in which soy bean oil replaced the fish oil fatty acid concentrates resulted in prompt development of VF. Possible mechanisms for this protective effect of omega 3 fatty acids against exercise and ischemia-induced malignant arrhythmias are considered."

On the other hand maybe I'll give the method a go:D

Dave Van Skike
12-16-2006, 02:47 PM
I just switched to the nordic naturals liquid. Not bad taste, even my kids will take it. I have read somewhere (maybe mercola) that Nordic nat. has been tested to be very good quality. But FWIW, I had a Doctor of Neurochem. and Psychology tell me he uses costco brand caplets and prescribes the same for all his patients.


There's so much fish oil stuff going on and I haven't ever sorted it out fully.

-Sears' assertion that the more concentrated the oil the better
-Decent brands
-Krill oil? Where does it fit in?
-Massive dosing?
-Caps vs. liquid

Etc.

For the record, I take ~10 Sams Club fish oil caps daily.

Pierre Auge
12-16-2006, 03:15 PM
I use what has the highest concentration and which I can afford at whatever time that is... Currently Jamieson, might give the flameout a test drive though since it seems to have quite a bang for the buck.

Can't believe I'm considering buying something from t-nation!!!
But I guess they are no worse than any pharmaceuticals company...

Frank Needham
12-17-2006, 10:16 AM
I take cod liver oil, orange flavor. Reminds me of cough syrup? It doesn't bother me too much but my wife nearly hurls when she gets even a whiff of it. Kinda odd I think considering she's filipina and will eat anything that moves :D

Steve Shafley
12-17-2006, 01:21 PM
Dan John says he really likes the Flame Out. I haven't tried it.

Mike ODonnell
12-17-2006, 02:18 PM
Hmmmm....after doing some investigation I see that Flameout has much higher DHA than EPA. While EPA is good for inflammation, it seems DHA is more vital to brain, eyes, heart development. Looking at Fish Oil, that's 2x more EPA than DHA.....I'll have to go back to the store to see if there are other oils more DHA dominant.

So I guess the real question...is what is the ideal ratio of EPA/DHA for optimal health/inflammation control. I'm guessing it is a higher DHA, which can not be found in "standard" fish/cod liver oil. Interesting....never looked at that angle before.

kevin mckay
12-17-2006, 04:54 PM
I heard someting about a problem with all the vitamin d in clo synthetic or something? not sure why but them on my bottle of Carlson's I noticed they stated it did not contain any D or A like it was a selling point? Does anybody have info on what the deal is with that?

Mike ODonnell
12-18-2006, 05:13 AM
I heard someting about a problem with all the vitamin d in clo synthetic or something? not sure why but them on my bottle of Carlson's I noticed they stated it did not contain any D or A like it was a selling point? Does anybody have info on what the deal is with that?

Hmmm, Did not notice that...as I use Fish Oil not CLO (which is lower in Vit A & D anyways). I'm guessing there has been a lot of bad press going around about too much Cod Liver Oil will lead to Vit A & D in toxic levels?? Dunno......just an assumption....but if that was the case, they still make Fish Oil so why care about the CLO?

Allen Yeh
12-18-2006, 05:28 AM
Something a Charles Poliquin Trainer Level I noted in the replies to that article is that they suggest taking Vitamin E along with high dosing of fish oil because that much fish oil depletes Vitamin E.

Also they recommend the 30-45grams for one month and then after that you can cut back to 15-20 grams.

One last thing he mentioned is that they recommend changing the type of fish oil every 7-8 days because your body adapts to fish oils very readily.

Interesting stuff, I always find his articles a bit thought provoking. I am looking into the Flameout too, Mike if you try it out mind giving a review here? The only thing I don't like about it is the price - 25.95 for 22 servings of 3grams EPA/DHA so to get the 6g's/day I want I'd have to get almost 3 bottles a month (which the wife would be very strong in her disapproval of!)

Sam Lepore
12-18-2006, 06:05 AM
Check out Advocare's "Omegaplex" VERY HIGH in DHA and EPA and only 12.95 for 90 caps.

Green Pastures also makes some awesome CLO. Dr. G recommends.

Mike ODonnell
12-18-2006, 11:22 AM
I've heard that about the Vit E, something about the oxidation of the fish oil requires or uses more of the antioxidants from Vit E. I've seen some fish oil include extra E in their products. I guess it depends how much you get through your diet anyways and if you need to supplement more. Also looks like Vit E can enhance the effects of fish oil (maybe through the less oxidative damage?)
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/18/6/602

As for the amount you need to take, thats why I always like the liquid better...easier to get more grams in without having to deal with pills. Plus it's hard to really trust what most people put on their labels since it is not regulated. I trust the Carlsons and Nordic Naturals because they were checked by a 3rd party consummer lab. Know nothing of where Flameout gets their oil from...or Advocare so I would be hesistant to really switch so quickly. Also I dont think you really can notice a huge difference right away from fish oil unless you were already in serious inflammation or had ADD or some other issue in which dramatic improvements would be noticed. Will have to pay more attention when I visit the health store next time as they have a whole row of fish oil supplements.

Robb Wolf
12-18-2006, 06:43 PM
Sears recommends upwards of 20-30g of EPA/DHA per day for hard training athletes and folks with autoimmune issues. Obviously Poliquin recommends a pretty good sized whallop. I've run on ~10g/day for a long time. I certainly noticed an improvement in recovery and sleep in the beginning. I've been taking it so long now I'm not as aware of the effects. I may try bumping that up to 15-20g for a month or two and see what happens.

Too much? One can have excessive bleeding and bruising with too much, not sure how to track that other than some of the flow charts Sears offers regarding eicasanoid status...turds floating or sinking and stuff like that. There is also the EPA/AA blood test...which is quite spendy but Sears highly recomends it.

EPA/DHA-Ideal ratio. Interesting question. I'll run that by Cordain and see what he says. Ultimately most n-3, get converted to DHA...I think. I'm not sure if the EPA is a signaling agent and what roles it plays seperate from DHA...although DHA does appear to be the money shot, where n-3 fatty acids are concerned.

CLO-excessive Vit A&D?- Dave Werner and I talked about this a bit...and Art Devany had a bit on this topic. I think the potential for vit A/D toxicity is perhaps over stated unless one is doing very high doses of CLO. I'd just use it for some of the daily n-3's. Also it appears vit A needds are elevated with increased protein intake. Interesting stuff...mor eto investigate!

Mark Gebhard
12-18-2006, 07:44 PM
One can have excessive bleeding and bruising with too much

Anyone know the mechanism behind this? Does it reduce platelet count or is it something else? I ask because some recent bloodwork showed my platelets a bit lower than they should be, and I didn't get a chance to ask the doctor. I take a tablespoon a day.

Mike ODonnell
12-18-2006, 08:27 PM
Sears recommends upwards of 20-30g of EPA/DHA per day for hard training athletes and folks with autoimmune issues.

Had to go read the Inflammation Nation again. He says in that book that "normal healthy people" need 2.5g, Obesity/heart disease/diabetes need 5g/day, Chronic pain needs 7.5g/day and Neurological conditions need greater than 10g/day.

Of course he promotes his own Dr Sears pharma grade ultra refined fish oil, which is like 7.5g for 1 tablespoon.

Too much? One can have excessive bleeding and bruising with too much, not sure how to track that other than some of the flow charts Sears offers regarding eicasanoid status...turds floating or sinking and stuff like that. There is also the EPA/AA blood test...which is quite spendy but Sears highly recomends it.

Yep, Dr Sears likes the EPA/AA ratio, or his SIP profile (Silent INflammation Profile). He says most people are like 20...but ideal health is 1.5. Interestingly he says anything Lower than 1 is not good and should reduce fish oil, and anything below 0.5 highly increases the risk of a hemorrhagic stroke. Ouch. So according to him there is such a thing as too much....but the profile depends on what level of inflammation there is already....so how does one really know without that test? AA levels of course determined by the amount of DGLA (omega 6) that is convereted into AA by the D5D enzyme, or AA directly in the diet. So in addition to fish oil, to improve the ratio of EPA/AA you can increase your D5D enzyme blockers (reduced cortisol, reduced insulin, increased ginger, tumeric, etc...).


EPA/DHA-Ideal ratio. Interesting question. I'll run that by Cordain and see what he says. Ultimately most n-3, get converted to DHA...I think. I'm not sure if the EPA is a signaling agent and what roles it plays seperate from DHA...although DHA does appear to be the money shot, where n-3 fatty acids are concerned.

According to Dr Sears he is promoting (in his fish oil too) a 2:1 ratio of EPA/DHA. Now while EPA is the anti-inflammation key, DHA is the key for brain and neurological function (plus lower cholesterol and heart health). So can one with neurodisorders get too much EPA when he really needs DHA?? I know that DHA can be convereted into EPA...but not a clean conversion, although more efficient than ALA into EPA/DHA.

CLO-excessive Vit A&D?- Dave Werner and I talked about this a bit...and Art Devany had a bit on this topic. I think the potential for vit A/D toxicity is perhaps over stated unless one is doing very high doses of CLO. I'd just use it for some of the daily n-3's. Also it appears vit A needds are elevated with increased protein intake. Interesting stuff...mor eto investigate!

Dr Sears doesnt touch on that but does say that because of the unstability of fish oil, it has a chance to oxidate and therefore reduce the actual amount of EPA/DHA that is effective. So he recommends more fat soluble antioxidants, Vit E in particular, to increase the stability and effectiveness of the fish oil.


Ok it's late and my brain is tired...but I would love to see Dr Sears and someone else go at it over this. Cordain may say that more Paleo had higher amounts of DHA than EPA in their diet. Sears says you need the other way around but his focus is inflammation.

Ron Nelson
12-19-2006, 10:18 AM
I tried Flameout (one bottle) and was underwhelmed. Biotest advises to give any of their suppliments up to 8 weeks (I'm going from memory here) to achieve the desired effects. It did nothing to relieve the elbow tendonitis I was suffering at the time. The lesson I learned was this, never depend on a suppliment to "cure" what ails you. The tendonitis (more accurately, tendonosis) started to clear up with rest, rehab, and mobility. I started using regular old fish oil (from Target of all places) and CLA from GNC (Flameout has a bunch of CLA).

This was a cheaper approach as I could get 180 CLA caps last almost 3 months, whereas 1 bottle of Flameout (same price as my CLA alone) was gone in less than a month.

I only buy ZMA from Biotest. It's the only supp from them that does what they say it will do. . .that and the Spike shooter. Whoo boy on that stuff.

Jeremy Jones
12-19-2006, 02:35 PM
I take 12 Kirkland brand caps a day (from Costco). 850 mg "Concentrated" Fish Oil, 440 mg Omega-3 Fatty acids.

I guess that is only like 5.28 g of Omega-3s. Wow that seems low compared to these other reccomendations.

Time to find some liquid and try another approach.


FWIW, I can tell if I stop taking them. Soreness, not as good sleep, etc.

Billy_Brummel
12-19-2006, 04:07 PM
OK, I did some research...

One teaspoon of Carlson's has 1600 n-3's. So in order to get 10g of n3 that would mean taking 6.25 tbsp/day. That's like 92 ml of fish oil. The smaller bottle of Carlson's is 200 ml. So, that's like downing a bottle of Carlson's every other day. Each bottle costs $21.99.

Is my math way off, or is that a really expensive fish oil habit?

Frank Needham
12-19-2006, 04:26 PM
Is my math way off, or is that a really expensive fish oil habit?

My question back would be what is the cost-to-benefit of any so-called name brand supps? To me, when they starting quoting prices that are calculated in dollars per oz I say phooey on that shit....I prefer real food and moderately priced basic add ins whose value is a no-brainer. On the other hand maybe I'll start manufacturing Frank's brand products in my garage.....PHARMACY GRADE, SCIENTIFICALLY FORMULATED, KOSHER MADE WITH ACTUAL RABBIS ON SITE TO BLESS THE PROCESS....DR. WHOZIT USES THIS IN HIS PRACTICE EVERY DAY.....

Mike ODonnell
12-19-2006, 05:30 PM
OK, I did some research...

One teaspoon of Carlson's has 1600 n-3's. So in order to get 10g of n3 that would mean taking 6.25 tbsp/day. That's like 92 ml of fish oil. The smaller bottle of Carlson's is 200 ml. So, that's like downing a bottle of Carlson's every other day. Each bottle costs $21.99.

Is my math way off, or is that a really expensive fish oil habit?

Math someone say?? Let's examine....

1 serving (on the label) is usually 1 teaspoon = 5ml
Each 200ml bottle has 40 servings
1 teaspoon usually is about 1200g of EPA/DHA (all depends on if you get reg fish oil, or concentrated...maybe more cost effective for the concentrated)
So if we are looking at 10g, then that is roughly 8 servings/day
8 servings = 8 teaspoons = 2 1/2 or 3 tablespoons (too round up)
Which means one bottle will last you 5 days....which means 6 bottles a month at $15-$19 a bottle...so now you are spending $120 a month just on fish oil. (assuming you are going for the 10g a day)

So if you buy Dr Sears ultra refined oil:
His is 2.7g EPA/DHA per teaspoon
at 10grams a day is 3.7 teaspoons (or just over on tablespoon)
45 servings a bottle (1 teaspoon=1 serving) is 12 days worth.
So their bottle is around $75.

Take the averages:
$75 for 12 days = $6.25 cost per day
$20 for 5 days = $4.00 cost per day

so still cheaper to get the reg fish oil vs the concentrated.

Whoooo, I am spent....but every other day was a little off.....

Billy_Brummel
12-19-2006, 08:14 PM
....and I'm retarded.

Proof that I've got a serious n3 deficiency.

John Seiler
12-22-2006, 09:55 AM
Robb,

I'm confused. There seems to be switching between talking about grams of the fish oil itself and grams of the EPA/DHA. You're taking in ~10 grams of which?

Ronnie Ashlock
01-15-2007, 10:38 PM
I'm currently using FlameOut from Biotest. I wanted to see if the added CLA did anything for me. So far, I like it, but it's not like I can suddenly see stars in a distant galaxy or anything. Don't know if it's worth the price. I had been using Carlson's for about year and a half before switching over, but had a five-day power loss at my house and had to throw the rancid Carlson oil away. So I thought I'd give the Biotest stuff a try. I was taking four caps a day, and like I said, no superpowers suddenly kicked in. So yesterday, I upped it to five caps in the morning and five in the evening for a total of 10. I noticed a pungent, fishy smell today when I defecated (sorry... I'm trying to be as clinical as possible), but nothing crazy weird with my stool (again, trying to be clinical). Perhaps that's too many caps. The smell definitely got my attention. I may break it down to three in the morning and three in the evening and see how that works.

Honestly, I think my overall health profile is better taking fish oil, since I almost never get sick anymore, and I tend not to get as sore after a workout, but it seems like a lot of the benefits one sees from it are all "under the hood," and I wonder if you need before and after blood work to see the difference. When I read Sear's "OmegaZone," book, I got the impression if I take a pharm grade (Sear's brand) fish oil I would suddenly start solving quantum mechanics equations with ease, develop shredded abs overnight, cure cancer and win the lottery. I don't think he overstates the benefits, it's just he tends to get a little too gleeful about how awesome Fish Oil is. I felt the same way about the other Zone books I've read.

Mike ODonnell
01-16-2007, 04:44 AM
CLA although a good EFA, I don't think is essential in the whole overall inflammation process (If that is why you are taking Fish Oil). In that respects EPA is the main guy. DHA is an added bonuc cause your brains runs better on that.

Fish Oil is never a dramatic change as it can take 4+ weeks to really see noticeable differences. Unless you were in screaming pain, you will just notice that maybe you recover better and hurt less. It's the silent inflammation that we don't feel that leads to health decline, so yes Fish Oil is key to health in todays over abumndant Omega 6 based food supply. "Inflammation Zone" is a better read into the benefits of fish oil than the "Omega Zone".

Pain in the ass thing about Fish Oil is knowing how much to really take. You may need only 3g a day...or some may need 6g....or others may need 10g....all depends on your EPA/AA balance as Sears like's to put it.

Damien Thompson
01-16-2007, 05:03 AM
Do almonds take care of the CLA or am i off track?

Scott Kustes
01-16-2007, 08:14 AM
Damien, CLA is Conjugated Linoleic Acid, available from grass-fed meats mainly. I don't think almonds provide any measurable CLA.

Allen Yeh
03-05-2007, 09:01 AM
Anyone have any more input into the different brands of Fish Oil, cod liver oil...etc? And how much?

Since December I've been taking 20 caps of fish oil which adds up to 6 grams of EPA/DHA a day. I'll be running out of this brand soon and wanted to look into trying another brand. I'm currently using the GNC stuff because of after all the discounts I can get 720 caps for $22. Which lasts 36 days.

So far I have Ron says nay about the Flameout and Ronnie likes it so far. Anyone else with Flameout experience?

I'm also looking at:
Nordic Naturals
Carlsons

Liquid or caps? I've always taken it in caps and I was thinking about making the switch over to liquid anyone with input here?

When I went up to 6 grams EPA/DHA I didn't really notice much of a difference between taking 3 grams and might ramp it back a little. What dosages are you taking right now and why?

Rick Deckart
03-05-2007, 10:12 AM
A little offtopic but still,

can too much fishoil do harm? Of course, although not all fishoil! Vitamin A is toxic at the right dosage. If you happen to swallow a good amount (<100g) of halibut liver oil---well you better be prepared to leave this world.

No I am not kidding, people died because they ate to much vitamin A (for example a swiss guy named Xavier Merz(?) who ate Husky liver during a antarctic(?) expedition, sorry but I have to check the name, location etc as I recall that from memory), and vitamin A was used to kill people AFAIK.

But relax, fish oil capsules should be save no matter what amount you swallow...

Steve Shafley
03-05-2007, 10:18 AM
I tried the FlameOut when I was visiting Dan John, and I think it was very good.

Krill Oil should be considered as well.

I'd really like to find a combination of superconcentrated fish oils with krill oil.

For cheap.

Alas.

Mike ODonnell
03-05-2007, 01:07 PM
What the hell is a Krill? and is anyone besides Mercola actually recommending it?

Steve Liberati
03-05-2007, 04:00 PM
What the hell is a Krill? and is anyone besides Mercola actually recommending it?

Dr. Eades wrote a few positive posts on Krill regarding it as one the most potent source of omega-3 fats. According to an article Science section of the New York Times, Krill agitate the various strata of the ocean, bringing rich, oxygen-laden water from below up to rejuvenate the oxygen-depleted surface layer. http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/index.php?s=krill&submit=Search

Mike ODonnell
03-05-2007, 04:17 PM
Geez Steve...you could of just easily said that yhe phospholipid structure of the EPA and DHA in krill oil makes them much more absorbable and allows for a much easier entrance into the mitochondria and the cellular nucleus. In addition to EPA and DHA krill oil contains a complex phospholipid profile including phosphatidylcholine, a potent source of reductive-stress-reducing choline, which also acts as a natural emulsifier. Krill oil contains vitamin E, vitamin A, vitamin D and canthaxanthin, which is, like astaxanthin, a potent anti-oxidant. The anti-oxidant potency of krill oil is such that when compared to fish oil in tems of ORAC (Oxygen radical absorptance capacity) values it was found to be 48 times more potent than fish oil.

But you had to go and post a whole link without saying if it was work safe...the nerve of you.....where the hell is a moderator when you need one??? ;)

Steve Liberati
03-05-2007, 06:21 PM
Lol ahhh...krill oil is not worth my time...rather write a long elaborate, scientific rich post on fish oil. Besides, that is where my focus has been for the last several years. You would be amazed at how well I can plageriaze Dr. Sears research on fish oil these days:p

Allison Barns
03-05-2007, 07:16 PM
What the hell is a Krill? and is anyone besides Mercola actually recommending it?

Krill are tiny crustaceans (shrimp-like critters) that are most abundant in the relatively pristine cold ocean waters near Antarctica. They are a main prey item of baleen whales (whales that eat really, really tiny critters). Krill are low on the food chain and therefore not likely to have contaminants such as mercury. Recently, krill have been considered as a good food source for humans. However, there is debate about how much krill could be taken by humans and not decimate the food source for whales and other ocean critters that eat krill.

Yes - "krill" is the correct singular and plural term. As in "Waiter! There is a krill in my soup!" and "Waiter! There are krill in my soup!"

Aren't you glad there's an oceanographer in the group?
(uh... don't answer that! :D )

Allen Yeh
03-06-2007, 04:16 AM
Doesn't seem to be much EPA/DHA in each serving of krill oil?

It seems to be a magnitude of 10 less?

Robert Allison
03-06-2007, 12:12 PM
Vitamin A is toxic at the right dosage.

I believe that vitamin A toxicity is often mentioned as a concern specifically regarding cod liver oil, rather than fish oils. Even then, the vitamin D in the cod liver oil can have a mitigating effect on high levels of vit. A, IIRC.

Regarding krill oil, it may be that the higher absorption rate allows for a therapeutic benefit, even with lower levels of EPA / DHA. I have been taking it for while, mostly for joint support (like Eades).

Allen Yeh
03-07-2007, 03:24 AM
Robert,

How much do you take and have you noticed a difference?

Robert Allison
03-07-2007, 08:34 AM
Hi Allen,

I take 2-4 capsules per day. I have noticed a difference, but I have also been taking turmeric & hyaluronic acid, and I also throw some gelatin into my protein shakes sometimes. I also take cod liver oil regular, not specifically for joint health, but it does have anti-inflammatory properties. That being the case, I can't honestly attribute all of the positive effects to the krill oil.

That is sometimes the challenge with using yourself as an experimental group; the small sample size doesn't allow for holding out a control. :)

Allen Yeh
03-07-2007, 10:26 AM
Hi Allen,

I take 2-4 capsules per day. I have noticed a difference, but I have also been taking turmeric & hyaluronic acid, and I also throw some gelatin into my protein shakes sometimes. I also take cod liver oil regular, not specifically for joint health, but it does have anti-inflammatory properties. That being the case, I can't honestly attribute all of the positive effects to the krill oil.

That is sometimes the challenge with using yourself as an experimental group; the small sample size doesn't allow for holding out a control. :)

haha very true, I typically strive to only change one thing at a time but I just get too impatient for that sometimes.

kevin mckay
03-07-2007, 06:42 PM
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070307080827.htm

Mike ODonnell
03-07-2007, 08:11 PM
Increasing DHA will improve brain function and moods....more info now coming out on it which is great. Would love to see people treated with seizures and alzeimers studies......I would guess dramatic improvements.....

Sam Cannons
03-19-2007, 06:40 PM
Were the hell are you suppose to get that much fish oil with out dropping 10-20 pills a day ??? How much is in an average size serving of fish ?

Thankyou

Sam In Aus

Mike ODonnell
03-19-2007, 07:05 PM
Hence why liquid is going to be a hell of alot easier.....I think it's like 1 tablespoon of fish oil = like 8-12 caps depending on their size.....

Robb Wolf
03-19-2007, 07:20 PM
Keep in mind this stuff is a food. We only have to supplement because we do not grassfeed our meat supply. It's not a spooky proposition to eat 200g of meat! Just consider it a food and it's not so odd to have that much of it in the diet.

Allen Yeh
03-20-2007, 04:18 AM
Hence why liquid is going to be a hell of alot easier.....I think it's like 1 tablespoon of fish oil = like 8-12 caps depending on their size.....

Sam,

To clear up the math a little, if you assume the standardized 30% EPA/DHA in a fish oil cap, then 8 caps will have 2400 grams and 12 caps will have 3600 grams EPA/DHA. A tablespoon of Carlsons fish oil is 3900 grams. While a tablespoon of the cod liver oil contains 2700 grams.

A little bit ago Coach Rutherford on his blog about getting 1 teaspoon of Carlsons per 50 pounds of bodyweight.

I was taking 20 fish oil caps a day but right now I've resolved to try Flameout for the full 8 weeks and see how it goes.

Sam Cannons
03-20-2007, 03:47 PM
I dont have a problem with taking that much, but liquid fish oil in Oz in fairly expensive especially in the quantaties were talking about here. Does any one know how much oil there would be in about 100g of tuna ?? I typically eat at least 100g a day of tuna. Most seafood in North Australia is shit and way to expensive to eat on a real regular basis, chicken and beef and veges are very cheap tho.

Thankyou
Sam In Aus

Kim Chase
03-22-2007, 08:10 PM
Keep in mind this stuff is a food. We only have to supplement because we do not grassfeed our meat supply. It's not a spooky proposition to eat 200g of meat! Just consider it a food and it's not so odd to have that much of it in the diet.

New here... hi! (these boards are fabulous, btw, lots of great info)

So, does this mean that, since all the meat and dairy I eat is grassfed or wild (I hunt) that I don't really need to supplement with fish oil? You guys had me sold on the stuff, but it would sure be nice to save the money since I spend so much on my meat!

Mike ODonnell
03-22-2007, 08:24 PM
So, does this mean that, since all the meat and dairy I eat is grassfed or wild (I hunt) that I don't really need to supplement with fish oil?

Kim, welcome...good question. You need the breakdown of omega 3s EPA and DHA which are the basic composition of fish oil. Eating fish nowadays...you just never know what you are really getting in them (since most are farmed anyways). So hence you may not be getting much at all. As for meats, well you really won't find much EPA/DHA in meats....what you will find is that commerical meats are high in omega 6 proinflammatory grains. By eating grass fed you will reduce that omega 6 excess and get the benefit of CLA and Omega 3s ALA, EPA, DHA. However I believe most is in the form of ALA which is terrible at being converted into EPA/DHA. So in a sense....yes for overall health you would want some fish oil...but your doses may be only 3g/day where people with other serious issues may be 2-3x more.

Essentially it's a guessing game as the real ratio is the AA/EPA....but if you want that blood test I dont think any insurance will cover it and it comes out of your pocket and aint cheap. Better safe than sorry...however if you notice excessive bleeding from cuts, lightheadness or other issues related to too much blood thinning then you may want to cut back on fish oil. But 3g is pretty safe and minimal in my humble non-doctor opinion.

Daniel Lykins
04-27-2007, 06:18 PM
hey guys,

i live in costa rica, and there are only a couple fish oil options. i ordered a decent supply of carlson's liquid kind which is oft-suggested, but since i ordered them around feb1 and i'm just now finished with the customs issues in importing it, i decided to pick something locally. as far as i know, my options are:

"Twin Lab" Omega 3 Capsules (not emulsified... picture here [everything safe, it's just a picture of a bottle of pills] http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-29523360387793_1947_56967380

"Nature Made" Omega 3 capsules [also everything safe] http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580/1d/pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/77210/300.jpg

and there is also a GNC. I barely have ever been into a GNC, but I do remember the last time I was there noticing several Omega 3/fish oil options (much like their website). price is not an issue, just looking for the best possible option of the three. so yeah.. which should i buy.

thanks

edit: actually, if anyone has any comments on any other gnc products they'd be appreciated, as here they're one of basically two stores where one can find such things (and the other is perhaps even more geared towards body builders, etc.)

Michael Miller
05-08-2007, 08:34 PM
What does everyone do as far as fish oil when you travel? I know the liquid stuff needs to be refrigerated. Just go to capsules when on the road?

Yael Grauer
05-08-2007, 08:41 PM
What does everyone do as far as fish oil when you travel? I know the liquid stuff needs to be refrigerated. Just go to capsules when on the road?

Hey, Michael, good to see you on here!!

Capsules.... or coromega. Yummy!

Michael Miller
05-09-2007, 12:28 AM
Hey there! Yeah, finally decided to stop lurking :)

I'll have to check out that Coromega, never tried it before.

Garrett Smith
05-09-2007, 06:58 AM
Michael,
I need to know the EPA/DHA content of those supps.

The other main thing is to find out if they are free of toxic metals, solvents, and other nasties. Not good to take in bad stuff with the good...

On vacations, I take pills with me--I don't worry about refrigeration on trips, but the bottle at home stays in the fridge.

At home, I use liquids.

Yael Grauer
05-09-2007, 10:56 AM
I'll have to check out that Coromega, never tried it before.


You can get a free sample here: http://www.coromega.com/06Free_Sample/form_consumers.html