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Nick Hanson
07-21-2008, 04:23 PM
Ok, sorry Greg, this doesn't really belong in this thread, but I didn't know where else to put it because the other two nutrition areas are too specific. Plus this applies to fitness and GPP anyway. Here is the review I just posted on the CF boards:

So this weekend I attended the day long Nutrition cert at San Francisco Crossfit. Before I get into my review of the cert I thought I would talk about my nutrition background a bit as it gives some perspective.

I am currently 6 feet tall 173 lbs. I have been crossfitting about 8 months and in that time have lost about 30 lbs. For the first two months of crossfit I did not change my diet, but did start to eat more salads. In early January I went to the zone, and about a month later I was zone paleo. In the April time frame I had leaned out to where I wanted to be (and was also tired of counting nuts, so I became a little more lax with the zone. I now eat about 17 blocks of protein, 10 blocks of carbs and a ton of fat on a daily basis. I cook 4 out of my five meals of the day and get the majority of my meat from grassfed sources. Generally I am on track with the diet about 80% of the time.

The Review:

So I am not going to get into everything but I will just highlight what I liked, and where I thought they could improve a bit.

Likes -
-Robb is extremely intelligent and really cares about this subject. You could tell that this is what he loves. He is actually more impressive in person in terms of his knowledge on the subject.

-Paleo - Robb considers this the base of everything. If you are going to do one thing, go Paleo. He went into all of the reasons why, as well as some of the technical things surrounding Paleo. He also gave examples of various Paleo food sources.

- Neolithic - Robb explained the Neo foods and why they are so bad for you. Biggest thing I got from this was that bread has to be eliminated. It is the number one cause for most inflammatory diseases. Interestingly enough he actually likes wheat bread the least. If I remember correctly, this is because the wheat germ is especially destructive on the GI and just causes more irritation. Point taken was if you are going to eat bread, eat white bread.

He also talked a bit about legumes and why they are so bad for you as well. Also, Quinoa, even though its technically a fruit, has the same side effects of bread, so you also shouldn't eat that.

- Paleo cultures - Robb spoke a bit about various cultures. Interesting notes, Indians on the plains who ate primarily Buffalo, blueberries and tubers were on par in health with Olympic athletes and most males had a 2.5-3x BW deadlift. Also, on average native culture's diets are 25-30% Protein, 20-25% carb and 30-40% fat.

- Testimonials - Robb had pictures and bloodwork of a couple of his folks. I didn't really look into all the data too much (because I am not a trainer) but the basic idea was that if people just went Paleo, most markers of ill health in bloodwork improve dramatically and over a very short period of time.

- Demos - He and Nicki demoed a couple of meals. Pretty simple stuff that was easy to cook. You can find them on his website.

- The zone - He went into a ton of depth about the zone which I am not going to do here. He gave a bunch of information about how to make the zone work best for you. This included how to sub out fat for carbs and also how to weight gain on the zone (you need to increase your blocks a ton).

This was by far the most interesting part for me, because I realized that the diet I have moved to recently is a zone meal with fat subbed for carbs. Definitely cool for me.

- He also talked a bit about dairy and looked at some folks food logs. Then he took questions for about an hour.

Things I didn't like -

- The only thing I didn't like was how we would sometime get off topic. Robb knows so much, and people will inevitably ask questions, however most of the questions were going to be answered at some point or another. This is even more difficult because things are so interrelated. I am not sure how to fix it but thats the one thing that was sorta annoying. However, I am biased because I have also read a ton of this material on my own.

Closing Thoughts -

Overall this is a great cert. However I would think this would be pretty overwhelming if you don't have a good idea about your nutrition already. I know some folks from SFCF were going into this without much knowledge on that, and I think that they were pretty overwhelmed. I have a pretty in depth knowledge of this stuff over the last six months, so for me it was a great refresher and was also excellent at giving me more of the technical side of things.

I would definitely say this is worth it for any trainer that wants to improve their client's nutrition, or any crossfitter who wants to improve their own.

Dave Van Skike
07-21-2008, 04:41 PM
Nice write up...
one quesiotn..

"Paleo cultures - Robb spoke a bit about various cultures. Interesting notes, Indians on the plains who ate primarily Buffalo, blueberries and tubers were on par in health with Olympic athletes and most males had a 2.5-3x BW deadlift. Also, on average native culture's diets are 25-30% Protein, 20-25% carb and 30-40% fat."



where the hell does the DL part come from? I was an anthro major in a former life and don't remember running across any studies vis a vis deadlifting and aboriginal peoples of the mid central plains...

R. Alan Hester
07-21-2008, 05:21 PM
I remeber Devany saying the same, but i cannot find it now. I think it needs to be qualified, however. If I remember correctly, it was test on a pulley type machine, which I think translates poorly to a real deadlift.

Nick Hanson
07-21-2008, 05:33 PM
Here is what devany said about it. Anecdotal at best: http://www.arthurdevany.com/?p=334

Dave Van Skike
07-21-2008, 06:58 PM
Here is what devany said about it. Anecdotal at best: http://www.arthurdevany.com/?p=334

if DeVany said it it's gold baby!!!!

what a load of shit.

I kid of course..De Vany is a genius; pure money that guy...

no wait...the other thing.

it's shit.

A double BW DL is no great shakes for a 165 pound man and I'm sure many pre-industrial folks could do it based just on exposure to work...but so can most farm boys. it's a silly statement using a silly metric.

R. Alan Hester
07-21-2008, 07:12 PM
if DeVany said it it's gold baby!!!!

what a load of shit.

I kid of course..De Vany is a genius; pure money that guy...

no wait...the other thing.

it's shit.

A double BW DL is no great shakes for a 165 pound man and I'm sure many pre-industrial folks could do it based just on exposure to work...but so can most farm boys. it's a silly statement using a silly metric.

Do you question the force that is De Vany? You, sir, shall be banned to the depths of hell!

Dave Van Skike
07-21-2008, 07:38 PM
Do you question the force that is De Vany? You, sir, shall be banned to the depths of hell!

It's just sour grape because I missed the Vegas "seminar" (read: powerpoint)

Mike ODonnell
07-21-2008, 07:45 PM
Here is what devany said about it. Anecdotal at best: http://www.arthurdevany.com/?p=334

I thought this comment was the most interesting

Lifting heavy objects within a group setting would, of course, mean help from others. Many hands make light work.

as seen in many group society settings like the modern Amish, who do work as a community....no one tries to raise a barn themselves...but they work all day at a slow and steady pace and together....it is easy. Not sure the HG lifestyle for lifting heavy objects, but I imagine a group of hunters carry the kill back as a group. I would also assume survival was key to being part of a community setting, not being off by oneself.

Dave Van Skike
07-21-2008, 08:50 PM
I thought this comment was the most interesting



as seen in many group society settings like the modern Amish, who do work as a community....no one tries to raise a barn themselves...but they work all day at a slow and steady pace and together....it is easy. Not sure the HG lifestyle for lifting heavy objects, but I imagine a group of hunters carry the kill back as a group. I would also assume survival was key to being part of a community setting, not being off by oneself.

I thought the basic hunter gatherer program is to yell GWAR! then leap parkour style onto the back of a mastodon. then booyah!!!.clovis point for the kill.... superset this with iso-hammer rows for the crazy upper back cuts followed by two hour cool down admiring rock hard (and hairy) abs.

Steve Liberati
07-22-2008, 04:29 AM
[/B]. superset this with iso-hammer rows for the crazy upper back cuts followed by two hour cool down admiring rock hard (and hairy) abs.

That would be Art DeVaney's version...followed by a blog post about how great he is, how great the private section of his blog is, how great his gf and grandkids are, and that it is all on DVD for the low price of $999:p

Oh yeah, AND if you don't buy the DVD you are a FOOL (just ask his author friend Taleb who will tell you likewise).

Allen Yeh
07-22-2008, 07:00 AM
Thanks for the write-up Nick.

Robb,

As I recall you still us out in DC a visit!

Mike ODonnell
07-22-2008, 07:35 AM
I thought the basic hunter gatherer program is to yell GWAR! then leap parkour style onto the back of a mastodon. then booyah!!!.clovis point for the kill.... superset this with iso-hammer rows for the crazy upper back cuts followed by two hour cool down admiring rock hard (and hairy) abs.

You forgot the 18holes of slow motion flexing golf swings with the mastodon balls.

Ahhhh...DeVany....traded him out for Lyle McD in the RSS reader....as it has an ego limit and I was over my quotta on shirtless pictures.

David Stout
07-22-2008, 12:59 PM
On the dairy deal, can any of you point me to PM articles, Rob Wolf blogs, etc. that talk about this?

Robb Wolf
07-22-2008, 01:29 PM
Thanks for the write-up Nick.

Robb,

As I recall you still us out in DC a visit!

That I do and I'm trying to figure out the timing.

There was as pretty solid contingent of Finnish, and Norwegian lumber jacks who did little specific DL training but posted 600-700lb DL's. Main activity was dragin felled trees. I know dave or someone else will crawl up my hoo-ha for a citation on this, I believe it was a Louie Simmons piece talking about sled dragging.

Someone who is a stay-at-home dad, wathing the kids can dig up the goods on that if they want to:p

The main point with that stuff was that we are wired for a high activity level and good all-around performance.

Dave Van Skike
07-22-2008, 01:45 PM
That I do and I'm trying to figure out the timing.

There was as pretty solid contingent of Finnish, and Norwegian lumber jacks who did little specific DL training but posted 600-700lb DL's. Main activity was dragin felled trees. I know dave or someone else will crawl up my hoo-ha for a citation on this, I believe it was a Louie Simmons piece talking about sled dragging.

Someone who is a stay-at-home dad, wathing the kids can dig up the goods on that if they want to:p

The main point with that stuff was that we are wired for a high activity level and good all-around performance.


I won't bust your chops, that's a believable enough story, it involves and actual barbell and stuff....

R. Alan Hester
07-22-2008, 03:11 PM
That I do and I'm trying to figure out the timing.

There was as pretty solid contingent of Finnish, and Norwegian lumber jacks who did little specific DL training but posted 600-700lb DL's. Main activity was dragin felled trees. I know dave or someone else will crawl up my hoo-ha for a citation on this, I believe it was a Louie Simmons piece talking about sled dragging.

Someone who is a stay-at-home dad, wathing the kids can dig up the goods on that if they want to:p

The main point with that stuff was that we are wired for a high activity level and good all-around performance.

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls14.htm

Robb Wolf
07-22-2008, 03:42 PM
Alan-
You get a big, wet, non-gay cyber smooch for that, thanks.

Dave Van Skike
07-22-2008, 03:45 PM
Alan-
You get a big, wet, non-gay cyber smooch for that, thanks.


Nicely played. Louie said it..now you said it..the plural of anecdote is data....booyah....we have a Case study. ;)

James Evans
07-23-2008, 04:15 AM
- Paleo cultures - Robb spoke a bit about various cultures. Interesting notes, Indians on the plains who ate primarily Buffalo, blueberries and tubers were on par in health with Olympic athletes and most males had a 2.5-3x BW deadlift. Also, on average native culture's diets are 25-30% Protein, 20-25% carb and 30-40% fat.


Whoa there! I don't care who said what or where...I mean Robb, come on man, how much could these mothers bench?

Jacob Rowell
07-23-2008, 08:50 AM
Robb-

I see from your blog that you might have a seminar in Fairfax. If you do, count me in! The seminar sounds great.

Robb Wolf
07-23-2008, 11:59 AM
Whoa there! I don't care who said what or where...I mean Robb, come on man, how much could these mothers bench?

James-
I'm skinny on paleo-bench data. The "lil-Cave-dweller" bench sets were notoriously inaccurate anyway so I'd be suspicious of any numbers quoted.

Jacob-
It looks like a nearly done deal for sometime in Sept.

John Seiler
07-23-2008, 12:06 PM
James-
I'm skinny on paleo-bench data. The "lil-Cave-dweller" bench sets were notoriously inaccurate anyway so I'd be suspicious of any numbers quoted.

Jacob-
It looks like a nearly done deal for sometime in Sept.

Of particular note are the cave drawings at Grenoble. The paleo-benchers had clearly developed the "shoe-box under the arms" walk long before the invention of the shoe!

Chris Tracy
07-23-2008, 02:34 PM
I also attended the seminar in SF, it was money and time well spent! We covered a ton of information and it got my gears turning on a number of interrelated topics like the positive side of bioaccumulation, and convergent evolution.

Ya, it was a typical day near the Golden Gate and yes we had the usual smattering of people that asked stupid questions and took things off topic... it's to be expected.

My recommendation would be to print and provide an outline of the topics that will be covered so people would (JUST MAYBE) hold questions that might be answered later. Maybe have some reading material for people to prep so you can assume a base of knowledge to build on. Burpees or a good flogging for anyone that asks a question that's in the reading.

Nick Hanson
07-23-2008, 05:10 PM
I also attended the seminar in SF, it was money and time well spent! We covered a ton of information and it got my gears turning on a number of interrelated topics like the positive side of bioaccumulation, and convergent evolution.

Ya, it was a typical day near the Golden Gate and yes we had the usual smattering of people that asked stupid questions and took things off topic... it's to be expected.

My recommendation would be to print and provide an outline of the topics that will be covered so people would (JUST MAYBE) hold questions that might be answered later. Maybe have some reading material for people to prep so you can assume a base of knowledge to build on. Burpees or a good flogging for anyone that asks a question that's in the reading.

My thoughts exactly Chris. My thoughts exactly.

Robb Wolf
07-24-2008, 08:36 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys. I will have an outline and synopsysis of the key points for the talk. I'm hammering on a resource page for my blog that will help with backgraound.

One thing though...it's RARE that someone is going to roll into the cert with your knowledge base Nick. If we get beyond "just do: Paleo or Zone or whatever"...there is significant base information that may take months or years of study for folks to fully get. None of that is really necessary for the practical implementation...but it becomes important to customize the program and be able to answer client questions.

Nick Hanson
07-24-2008, 03:46 PM
Thanks Robb, I really appreciate that. Its funny, I hadn't thought of myself as a sort of food expert, but I have really latched onto that since starting crossfit. I figured everyone just kinda did all of this too.

Its actually been even more eye opening in the past day as Kelly asked all of the SFCFer's to post their nutrition for the day. I was amazed at what some people ate. Definitely not as good as I would have suspected.

Either way I loved the seminar and was even more happy to meet you and Nicki. Thanks again for all the effort in putting the seminar together.

Nick Hanson
07-24-2008, 03:47 PM
I guess the next question is, do I start consulting for people on their food. ;).