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Frank Needham
07-26-2008, 08:26 PM
This dude is 5'8" tall and weighs 120 lbs, or did at one time:
http://www.benbest.com/calories/calories.html
After reading a couple of his pieces about his eating adventures I just thought, no way. This seems almost as bad in its own way as overeating does at the other end of the scale. Extending your life for 20 years or not, it just doesn't seem worth it. Check it if you got some time to burn. I warn you, the guy is pretty chatty.

Dave Van Skike
07-26-2008, 08:38 PM
This dude is 5'8" tall and weighs 120 lbs, or did at one time:
http://www.benbest.com/calories/calories.html
After reading a couple of his pieces about his eating adventures I just thought, no way. This seems almost as bad in its own way as overeating does at the other end of the scale. Extending your life for 20 years or not, it just doesn't seem worth it. Check it if you got some time to burn. I warn you, the guy is pretty chatty.

his punishment appears to fit the crime...

may he live forever..

Steven Low
07-26-2008, 08:39 PM
Looks like a good read. Browsed through a bunch of the stuff... a couple passages on insulin resistance and aging mirror a couple of the threads over in I think Paleo or Zone section now actually. Very similar to IF in some respects.

Frank Needham
07-26-2008, 08:57 PM
Looks like a good read. Browsed through a bunch of the stuff... a couple passages on insulin resistance and aging mirror a couple of the threads over in I think Paleo or Zone section now actually. Very similar to IF in some respects.

I had similar thoughts but got fixated on symptoms he started exhibiting such as fainting, headaches, etc. Zone is a form of CRAN from what I know it, which is not a whole lot compared to some. I am trying to reduce my food intake and rearrange the content of the macro nutrients I consume but there is a point at which one has to say "hold on a minute here". Just wait till you read the parts where he talks about what subs he makes for protein, yikes! A picture would worth a 1000 words in this case.

Mike ODonnell
07-27-2008, 07:06 AM
Insulin is probably the best bio-marker (along with AGEs) when it comes to longevity. That being said...just don't over eat (or cycle feast/famine periods) and do daily exercise. Other than that it's a crapshoot how long one will live....as that guy could get hit by a old lady on a scooter tommorow. CRAN is not something I would want to do and probably doesn't add more benefits to people with proper nutrition and exercise.

Troy Archie
07-27-2008, 07:59 AM
It isn't worth it. I like scotch too much.

And I'm not much for hemroids.

Mike ODonnell
07-27-2008, 10:01 AM
I warn you, the guy is pretty chatty.

Dating is probably not taking up too much of his time.....another drawback of CR diets.

Frank Needham
07-27-2008, 11:07 AM
Dating is probably not taking up too much of his time.....another drawback of CR diets.

haha, another reason that it made me uncomfortable. Not single anymore but I'd prolly end up divorced as my wife likes to eat, anything, and she would not like it in the least if I didn't enjoy her cooking anymore.

Troy, the roid thing? How messed up is that?!

On the serious side of this topic though, I may, along with working to reduce insulin resistance further still, do the fasting one day per week. More than anything I'd like to do it just to see if I can. My sister referred to me as a shark at one time, "the perfect eating machine", so it would be quite an accomplishment for me to go one 24 hour period without food. And, if it made my sense of well being more enhanced, all the better.

Mike ODonnell
07-27-2008, 11:31 AM
On the serious side of this topic though, I may, along with working to reduce insulin resistance further still, do the fasting one day per week. More than anything I'd like to do it just to see if I can.

People don't fast because they are brain washed into thinking they need carbs all day long and think all their muscle will dissapear without a constant protein shake every 3 hours....which we know is bogus. Hence why I like IF (esp with the "intermittent" part), you get most all benefits of CR PLUS better fasting insulin levels and can maintain body composition (and gain lean mucle). CR (in the sense of 30-40% less than normal intake every single day) sucks for any body composition gains/maintaining and just leads to loss of muscle and the ability to get laid.

Craig Loizides
07-30-2008, 01:48 PM
Dating is probably not taking up too much of his time.....another drawback of CR diets.

Cran man like Maria Sharapova.
http://www.benbest.com/personal/maria.html

Actually there's a lot of interesting information on his site except for his total fear of fat. He actually removed oats from his diet because they contain too much fat. Here's the crazy thing though. He's 5'8" 120 with no muscle and he's eating 1800-2000 calories a day. I hardly think that qualifies as caloric restriction. I think a lot of 175 pound crossfitters out there on the zone eat less than that. He also has very low testosterone levels and the DHEA levels of a 95 year old. I wouldn't think that would be a good marker for longevity. I wonder how much of this is due to high grain, low fat rather than CR.

Mike ODonnell
07-30-2008, 05:49 PM
He's 5'8" 120 with no muscle

He also has very low testosterone levels and the DHEA levels of a 95 year old.

Nature does not want to reproduce more of him.....eating less while healthy in comparison to gluttony....a whole civilization of weak CR people would not contribute much for hunting or protection.....and would be wiped out by the next wandering meat loving tribe of Vikings or drunk Irish Hooligans.

Some people are so focused on living longer...they forget to live in the first place.

Frank Needham
07-31-2008, 10:50 AM
This article on CRAN by Robb Wolf is so packed with good stuff:
http://www.powerathletesmag.com/archives/six/calrestriction.htm
Buried in the article are several nuggets worth investigation and the article itself serves as a great guide standing on its own.

Darryl Shaw
08-01-2008, 06:25 AM
This article on CRAN by Robb Wolf is so packed with good stuff:
http://www.powerathletesmag.com/archives/six/calrestriction.htm
Buried in the article are several nuggets worth investigation and the article itself serves as a great guide standing on its own.

Good article; he's describing almost exactly the same approach to health and longevity I've been practicing for almost twenty years ie. strength training + moderate CR with paleo food choices. I'm surprised he says that there's no meaningful data on CRAN or CRON as it was known back when I started doing it on humans though because there's the Biosphere 2 experiment, the Okinawan Centenarian Study and about a dozen other studies I could mention.

Calorie Restriction in Biosphere 2. (http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/57/6/B211?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=roy+walford&fulltext=biosphere&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT)

Caloric restriction, the traditional Okinawan diet, and healthy aging. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17986602?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)

How Much Should We Eat? The Association Between Energy Intake and Mortality. (http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/59/8/B789)

Caloric Restriction in Humans. (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2020845)

Mike ODonnell
08-01-2008, 06:56 AM
strength training + moderate CR with paleo food choices.

add in Sunshine and Sleep and what more does one really need?

Guinness of course....but that is Paleo anyways

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-02-2008, 11:33 PM
Cran man like Maria Sharapova.
http://www.benbest.com/personal/maria.html

Actually there's a lot of interesting information on his site except for his total fear of fat. He actually removed oats from his diet because they contain too much fat. Here's the crazy thing though. He's 5'8" 120 with no muscle and he's eating 1800-2000 calories a day. I hardly think that qualifies as caloric restriction. I think a lot of 175 pound crossfitters out there on the zone eat less than that. He also has very low testosterone levels and the DHEA levels of a 95 year old. I wouldn't think that would be a good marker for longevity. I wonder how much of this is due to high grain, low fat rather than CR.

What?! 1800 calories a day and 125 whats his problem does he spend 4 hours a day running. Sorry I havn't read the article.

I have read some about CRAN though and the studies that brought about the idea. poor rats. Anyway its still interesting stuff. The little I have read about anything to do with IF as far as clinical research showed simmilar biochemical and metabolic adaptations as CRAN without the CR. Mike you got any links for me with anything recent. The only info I have looked at was from the PM article on IF by Robb Wolf written a while back. I am probrably being lazy I need to search around IFlife more.

Mike ODonnell
08-03-2008, 10:33 AM
The little I have read about anything to do with IF as far as clinical research showed simmilar biochemical and metabolic adaptations as CRAN without the CR.

Hence why most like the IF....longevity is a complex equation...not just based on one or two biomarkers...although insulin would probably be the most important one.

Here's my list of studies...although there are more I am sure
http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/resources/

Good luck finding consistent studies on fasting....no money in it....might see more on SIRT expression...as they can put that in a pill so it makes sense to fund those studies. (Reservatol)

Eating clean, eating less, exercise and occasional fasting...not a hard equation to follow. Then all that is left is to just go enjoy life...and not worry about how to make it longer.

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-03-2008, 06:05 PM
[QUOTE=Mike ODonnell;36131]Hence why most like the IF....longevity is a complex equation...not just based on one or two biomarkers...although insulin would probably be the most important one.

Here's my list of studies...although there are more I am sure
http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/resources/
QUOTE]

More than I could have expected thanx a mil.

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-03-2008, 08:50 PM
The stuff I find cool about the difference between CRAN and IF is the production of keton bodies which remain in the blood even on durring feeding periods. We need some human studies and not only EOD. I'll sign up

The differences in basal- and stress-induced ACTH and corticosterone levels between rats fed control and IF diets suggest that IF activates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) stress response system, while suppressing responses of this neuroendocrine system to more severe stresses.

This is from one of the studies Mike gave me it is showing that ACTH and Corticosterone levels are higher in general but do not spike in response to stress and that at the same time our sympathetic nevouse system response is increased. So the response to stress is improved.

What exactly does the imobalization stress signafy in our life?

My big question is are increased basal levels of ACTH and Corticoserone a "negative" adaptation?

Mike ODonnell
08-03-2008, 08:52 PM
My big question is are increased basal levels of ACTH and Corticoserone a "negative" adaptation?

If you want to live longer and have strong resistant cells as you grow older (esp in the brain, heart and lungs where optimal function becomes more critical)....I doubt it. There are also factors like increased autophagy (cellular breakdown/waste removal/rebuilding....aka cleaning house) through fasting and exercise that are key to long term health as well.

IF is meant to be an acute random stressor....not chronic. Remember, feast and famine.....not famine and famine.

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-03-2008, 11:49 PM
If you want to live longer and have strong resistant cells as you grow older (esp in the brain, heart and lungs where optimal function becomes more critical)....I doubt it. There are also factors like increased autophagy (cellular breakdown/waste removal/rebuilding....aka cleaning house) through fasting and exercise that are key to long term health as well.

IF is meant to be an acute random stressor....not chronic. Remember, feast and famine.....not famine and famine.

cool beans.