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Anton Emery
07-28-2008, 04:16 PM
Hi Everyone,

I was practicing my cleans the other day, pulling from the floor and landing in a rock bottom front squat. After the workout and the next day i felt pain in knees. I am wondering if my knees are not in line with my feet. When i have someone watch and they say it looks fine, but doing heavier cleans it may not be perfect on every rep. Does anyone know of any muscle imbalances that might cause this problem, or stretches i should be doing?

My right foot naturally turns out a bit, its been that way since birth. So sometimes when i jump my feet from the pulling to receiving position my right foot goes out to wide. I have been working to fix it, doing drills with the PVC and paying attention to my foot position. Its getting more consistent, but is not perfect yet.


thanks in advance.


Anton

Justin Fricke
07-28-2008, 04:51 PM
with ou ta video it is hard saying. If your knees are buckling (going in) when it is heavy then the wieght is to much. Practice front squats with a medium heavy weight and do them with speed both on the concentris and ecentric movements-But do them with control. Also if your knees are buckling then you Abductors might and probly are weak. Doint some single leg single arm DB RDLs will help-Works the Glute (which are used in abduction) Pistol squats could help as well. Spread the ground as you squat in any variation. But a Video in taken from the front and side will help the most. And yes if your knees are not tracking over you toes they will hurt it is also a quick way to the surgeon if done over time.

Justin Fricke
07-28-2008, 04:53 PM
you also need to think more about using your hips first, and squating inbetween you legs and not with your legs-if you know what i mean

Steven Low
07-28-2008, 06:23 PM
Do you know if your leg is like that because of a biomechanical deformity in bone structure or if you can correct it through internal rotation work and external rotation stretching?

You shouldn't be "bottoming" out in a squat, when you get under the bar it's a deceleration 'til you hit the bottom where the stretch reflex takes over. Not second pull and then third pull to the bottom of the squat..

Derek Maffett
07-28-2008, 07:50 PM
Did you get your squat width fixed since the cert? Full ROM squats at that width would probably cause buckling...

And yes, make sure you're not crashing down - you should be in control during the clean.

sarena kopciel
07-28-2008, 08:16 PM
Find someone that does this work (www.posturology.com). From my simple understanding after discussion with my coach (http://www.next-step-conditioning-systems.com/about-israel-sanchez.html)and then the way you even phrase the question (since birth...), you may easily have one leg shorter than another (leg length discrepancy). You may be squatting too heavy for your body as well!

Anton Emery
07-28-2008, 09:39 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone. I had Scott Hagnas watch my front squat today and he said it looked pretty good, a little knee buckling on the right side. That may just be an issue consciously remembering to push it out. I'll get a video camera in the gym soon and get some clips for your evaluation. I am also working on ramping up my front squat weight. I think building some strength with that exercise will help too. I have just not squatted enough. My current max as of last week was 170lbs, and today i did 145x5. Pretty pathetic, considering i can deadlift double BW. So i am going to work to drive that up while continuing to watch my form.

About the foot thing, i am not sure if its muscle imbalance or structural. I can remember doing exercises when i was really little, like walking on a line or on a board to get my foot to straighten. I've chiropractors tell me one leg is longer than the other, then others telling me that is wrong. So i dont know what to think on that front.


Anton

Justin Fricke
07-28-2008, 10:01 PM
most people have leg length issues it is very common. and they are easily fixed with a heel lift...I doubt that is the problem but get it checked out by a PT---

sarena kopciel
07-29-2008, 06:00 AM
True most have leg length discrepancies and rather a sole lift than a heel lift can do wonders. I actually got mine in my shoes today!!

I find the structural therapist (www.posturology.com) route to be extremely effective.

I find chiropractic adjustments dont have lasting effects as the bones move back.

Justin Fricke
07-29-2008, 03:57 PM
I find the same for Chiropratics-the bone goes "out of place" the next day when the existing muscle imbalance takes hold again. At times Chiro can be good but very rarely does the problem exist from the bone. I agree Manual Therapy and PT is most effective--followed by a good coach. Is your link in any way related to the practice of the American Academy of Orthopedic Medicine. I dont think it is but i am wondering if he gets some of his theories and philosophies from them.

sarena kopciel
07-29-2008, 04:17 PM
I find the same for Chiropratics-the bone goes "out of place" the next day when the existing muscle imbalance takes hold again. At times Chiro can be good but very rarely does the problem exist from the bone. I agree Manual Therapy and PT is most effective--followed by a good coach. Is your link in any way related to the practice of the American Academy of Orthopedic Medicine. I dont think it is but i am wondering if he gets some of his theories and philosophies from them.

Theories are based on the works of Dr Janet Travell (http://www.triggerpointbook.com/travell.htm) textbooks
Myofascial Pain and Discomfort, Trigger Point Manual
(http://books.google.com/books?id=5q4HAAAACAAJ&dq=Janet+G+Travell&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result)
and also that of Paul St. John (http://www.neurosomaticeducators.com/)

The cool thing about my coaches (http://www.next-step-conditioning-systems.com/index.html) is that they integrate this work with their lifters specific and unique body mechanics based on this work (http://www.resistancetrainingspecialist.com/)!

Justin Fricke
07-29-2008, 05:00 PM
Thanks Sarena. That is cool that your coaches do that. A Multi Skilled clinic traing center is what my dreams are. I want incorparate a the practice of Physical Therapist/Assistants, CSCS/USAW, and an RD in a g ym type setting. At this moment is a long shot but i have my BA in Sports Management/Ex. Science and currently studying to be a PTA. with the asperations of getting my DPT later. I first need to finish the first part of my journey though! Thanks for the Cites.