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Gittit Shwartz
08-03-2008, 06:39 AM
"If you want to lose fat, cut out dairy" seems to be the conventional wisdom (at least in these unconventional circles). Does anyone have an explanation for this - other than "it works", as I'm sure it does? Does dairy actually interfere with fat loss in sensitive folks, or just cause water retention? Is it the lactose, whey, casein... etc. Just curious.

Robert Allison
08-03-2008, 08:26 AM
There seems to be some conflicting research on this topic. There is at least one study that links avoiding milk to a reduction in the risk of developing insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome.

On the other hand, there have been some studies showing that the conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) in dairy from grassfed cows can help promote fat loss:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/5/1203%20

Also, researchers at Penn State used CLA to treat diabetes in mice:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060804083351.htm

The obvious caveat here being that mice are not humans, but early human trials seem to be pointing in the same direction.

From a purely evolutionary perspective, dairy products don't technically qualify as "Paleo." Having said that, I personally consume reasonable amounts of raw dairy (particularly cheese) without any weight gain or digestive issues.

YMMV...

Edit: Clarification--the CLA used in the AJCN study mentioned above was a supplement. From my perspective, obtaining CLA from grassfed dairy and meat is a better solution...

Steven Low
08-03-2008, 08:53 AM
This is another one of those "depends" questions.

It depends on how each person's body responds to it. Some may be more sensitive to stuff like CLA like Robert was saying and may have good fat loss with it; some may have poor sensitivity and might be a weight gaining substance for others.

Precisely why what works for you may not work (as well/at all) as others. Same with training, etc.

Garrett Smith
08-03-2008, 12:04 PM
If someone is hypersensitive to any food, of which many are to pasteurized cow dairy, then it will tend to pack on weight faster than other foods.

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-03-2008, 05:57 PM
I am hypersysitive to dairy the fat casein and lactose imparticular. Whey in moderation for recovery is fine I just have to get a high quality extremly low lactose brand. What happens? Fat IBS baloating and water retention, Casein Bloating at fat gain, Lactose IBS extreme Bloating. I am pretty certain this is my response because I have I solated the different components as in and out of my diets at different times and found it to be the case. I miss cheese and would like to use milk for weight gain periods I have found a dairy for grass fed raw milk does anyone have experience with whether or not I may be able to use raw dairy without many problems.

Robert Allison
08-04-2008, 06:46 AM
I have found a dairy for grass fed raw milk does anyone have experience with whether or not I may be able to use raw dairy without many problems.

As I mentioned above, I consume moderate amounts of raw diary without issue. But then, I have never really had any serious digestive concerns associated with dairy.

There seems to be a fair amount of anecdotal evidence that many people who experience digestive distress when consuming pasteurized dairy products can tolerate raw milk, butter, and cheese much better.

The theory seems to be that the pasteurization process deforms the casein and other components of milk, making them unrecognizable to the body. Another issue is that most pasteurized milk is produced by cows that are fed a diet rich in grains, which almost certainly alters the fatty acid composition of the milk, making it more inflammatory to the digestive tract.

I would suggest starting with raw cheese and, if you can find it, raw butter. IIRC, they have less casein and lactose than milk.

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-04-2008, 11:35 AM
The theory seems to be that the pasteurization process deforms the casein and other components of milk, making them unrecognizable to the body. Another issue is that most pasteurized milk is produced by cows that are fed a diet rich in grains, which almost certainly alters the fatty acid composition of the milk, making it more inflammatory to the digestive tract.

I would suggest starting with raw cheese and, if you can find it, raw butter. IIRC, they have less casein and lactose than milk.

Thanx
that actualy makes since and shows there is possibly more bennifit than icreased ezyme activity. I am hopefull. Just enjoying the ocasional cheese and buttery sauce or soup would be nice as well as using the milk for weight gain. I will think/speak positivly and it will be fine.

Gittit Shwartz
08-06-2008, 01:26 PM
To help answer my own question, I remember reading that dairy protein tends to induce a large insulin response relative to its glycemic effect. I imagine that could make a significant difference in a susceptible person.

Camille Lore
08-06-2008, 01:57 PM
Is that the same in raw dairy? I thought cows treated with the growth hormone were more apt to have this in the milk, but I may be totally off base here.

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-06-2008, 03:10 PM
To help answer my own question, I remember reading that dairy protein tends to induce a large insulin response relative to its glycemic effect. I imagine that could make a significant difference in a susceptible person.

This would be another reason why it would help gain weight. Why would some protien have a greater IS response, and is there a difference between whey and casein?

Steven Low
08-06-2008, 06:17 PM
This would be another reason why it would help gain weight. Why would some protien have a greater IS response, and is there a difference between whey and casein?
Couldn't tell if you were asking a question or not.

But whey absorbs faster than casein if that's what you're asking. Most BBers use casein right before sleep for slow release of amino acids.

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-06-2008, 07:51 PM
Couldn't tell if you were asking a question or not.

But whey absorbs faster than casein if that's what you're asking. Most BBers use casein right before sleep for slow release of amino acids.

Sorry I wrote that in a confusing manner, I was wondering if the insulin response between Whey and Casein was different and why would the insulin response be different between one protein source and another?

Oh and I just thought of something is there a difference in glucagon response to the sources? That could effect the "zone" axis among other things.

Fenthis Glusos
08-17-2008, 01:57 PM
simple: DON'T CUT OUT DAIRY...I've seen myself go from lean to leaner by incorporating dairy back into my diet. This is most likely why that whole ice cream thing is working out for those guys, dairy has some sort of effect at the cellular level on fat metabolism.

I just drink milk and eat plain yogurt/cheese.

Steven Low
08-17-2008, 02:02 PM
Sorry I wrote that in a confusing manner, I was wondering if the insulin response between Whey and Casein was different and why would the insulin response be different between one protein source and another?

Oh and I just thought of something is there a difference in glucagon response to the sources? That could effect the "zone" axis among other things.

As I said though one absorbs slower than the other.. which makes their response on insulin different. If something is being absorbed slower it's going to have a different effect.

For example, it's like taking 100g of sugar and throwing it into your bloodstream all at once vs. only 10g/hour.


simple: DON'T CUT OUT DAIRY...I've seen myself go from lean to leaner by incorporating dairy back into my diet. This is most likely why that whole ice cream thing is working out for those guys, dairy has some sort of effect at the cellular level on fat metabolism.

I just drink milk and eat plain yogurt/cheese.

That's great it works for you. Really depends on the person though... which is why most of us are experimenting with our diets a lot. :D