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joe waguespack
08-22-2008, 02:36 PM
So I decided to give the Anabolic Diet a try combined with my IF protocol. The idea is for 12 days eat a diet of 60% fat, 35% Pro and 5% carbs. basically keeping carbs under 30gms a day. After this 12 day induction period you begin a 36-48 hour "carb load". After the initial load you begin a 5 day low carb ( <30gm) and a 36-48 hour load weekly pattern.I have been reading a ton on it and haven't seen anyone combining it wit IF yet. I like to experiment so I said what the hell.

For the past few days my diet has been:
#1
6 whole eggs cooked in Coconut oil
8oz. ground round
8oz. Raw spinach
4 Fish oils
4 Liver Tabs
Greens Mix/4 tbsp. milled flax

#2 (post workout)
2 scoops whey
3 tbsp Extra virgin olive oil
4 tbsp milled flax
3 fish oils
4 Liver tabs

#3
8 oz. chicken thighs
8 oz raw spinach
3 fish oils
4 liver tabs
1 tbsp natural peanut butter

I am also supplementing with a multi, extra vit C, calcium. L-Tyrosine, and glutamine.

This is actually the simplest diet I have ever eaten, so far I feel pretty damn good. I always knew that I function pretty well WITH carbs and can lose BF while eating a fairly decent amount of carbs, but I though I would try the opposite end of the spectrum and see what happens. When I do the "carb load" I plan on sticking with clean carbs and not going with the free for all like I have read some do, and I will keep it to 1 day instead of two at first to see what happens.

My plan is to maintain my fast up until Sunday morning of next week and then from Sunday morning to Sunday night eat a carb heavy diet from clean sources, (oatmeal, potatoes, sweet potatoes, fruits and veggies, and of course some ice cream:D ,.......). For the load the ratios change to 50-60% carbs, 25-30% fats, and 15-20 % protein.

I am actually eating more calories than usual and aiming to shed the last little bit of BF while maintaining or adding mass and strength. This should be interesting to see what happens. So far I like it, but I'm only 4 days in. we will see.

Achintya Rana
08-22-2008, 04:26 PM
Good luck, I was planning on starting AD + IF this upcoming monday as well :D

I used to be on the AD for 3 months a few months ago, it's pretty kick ass

joe waguespack
08-22-2008, 05:17 PM
Cool, let's keep up with posts on here. It will be nice to have someone else experimenting as well.

Gant Grimes
08-22-2008, 05:35 PM
Keep writing. I'm interested.

Steve Liberati
08-22-2008, 06:21 PM
I'm curious to hear more as well. What are some of your starting stats and strength numbers, Joe?

joe waguespack
08-22-2008, 07:28 PM
I'm curious to hear more as well. What are some of your starting stats and strength numbers, Joe?

I started at 170lbs and about 7-8% BF. I'm actually down about 3lbs in a few days mainly from dropping water along with the carbs. My max DL is 435, and my max push press is 225. Those are the only two lifts I've gone for a 1RM on in a while. My last Squat workout I was using 265 for 5 sets of 5. Dont know what my 1RM there is.

I hear the first 12 days are a little rough and the first carb load can be an experience in itself. Supposedly once you become fat adapted thats when the strength gains will come, along with the performance enhancement. This can take different amounts of time for different people.

The diet recommends eating around 18x bodyweight in calories during the induction period and after that you can go with a mass gain or cut protocol and adjust calories accordingly. I don't have a whole lot to cut , but I'll make that decision when I get there. I'm no expert on this diet , so if anyone has any experience with it or tips please chime in. I'm learning as I go.

Mike ODonnell
08-22-2008, 09:23 PM
Body Opus is a better plan for someone at lower BF....otherwise you are just going to drop lbs and not be happy.

Dan Heaney
08-23-2008, 03:20 AM
I would look a BO like Mike said. I did the AD and followed it exactly and ended up fat. Weight stayed about the same (after the inital loss due to drop of h2o wt) but BF increased (the cal recommendations are too high). I found if you are up to it UD to work much better. With that I get leaner and stronger. I set the UD up for mass gain but I ended up staying at the same wt but I was getting stronger.

Frank Needham
08-23-2008, 05:58 AM
I tried AD, had no problem with no carb days and ate properly. The carb up days? Now that was a problem. Once I got started on those days there was no letting up :) I didn't get fatter but I didn't get leaner either. I'll be interested to see how AD + IF works for you Joe. I know you are able from having read your IF account on theiflife.com

joe waguespack
08-23-2008, 06:20 AM
The thing that attracted me to AD was how close it is to what I'm doing already with some minor tweaks. I'm mainly interested in what changes will come about from small tweaks. I basically only was eating carbs on training days and then eating to my hearts content on Saturday or Sunday. This will just be a little stricter (<30 g carbs) during the week with a more controlled madness on the weekend. Combined with IF and finding the right caloric balance, I'm pretty confident. I did Body Opus years ago and got flabby, smaller and weaker. I didn't have the experience I have now with eating, but it still wasn't a good experience. I have read many different experiences from people who are cutting/bulking and maintaining on AD. There is a HUGE (300+ post)thread on t-nation started by some powerlifters who have been doing AD for a while and swear by it for size/strength gain with minimal fat gain. I'm still reading the thread right now and if I can find it there is a really good explanation( I believe it was from Dr. Di Pasquale) about the shortcomings of BO and Duchaine's oversights when designing BO somewhere in there. I'll try and find that post , but the thread is huge and easy to get lost in. Here is the link if anyone wants to read it also. Good info by some seemingly knowledgeable athletes, no meathead BS. Definitely start at the beginning though, I think later in the thread is when the knuckle heads start chiming in.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/my_experience_on_the_anabolic_diet?id=658379&pageNo=0

Achintya Rana
08-23-2008, 06:27 AM
Here are 10 reasons why I think you should get on the Anabolic Diet as well:


1. Bigger Muscles. The Anabolic Diet maximizes the production of your 3 muscle building hormones:

* Testosterone
* Growth Hormone
* Insulin

At the same time, these hormones decreases the muscle breaking activity in your body. The end result? Bigger muscles.


2. Less Fat. The more fat you give your body, the less fat it stores. On the Anabolic Diet, you’ll consume high amounts of fat.

* You’ll become a fat burning machine: fat will be used for energy
* No more fat pockets: you’ll get rid of the love handles, double chin, …

With the Anabolic Diet you’ll be at 10% body fat, year round.


3. More Strength. You’ll feel like an animal on the Anabolic Diet. Stronger than ever:

* Increased testosterone levels
* Bigger muscles means more strength
* Lower body fat equals increased lean body mass

The Anabolic Diet is for those who want to be strong, without looking like a fato.


4. Better Health. The Anabolic Diet includes a high consumption of meat, fats, veggies & fruit. Some health benefits include:

* Decreased cholesterol & triglyceride levels
* Decreased plaque buildup in arteries
* Controlled insulin levels
* Less food allergies, less acne

Perform a blood test before starting this diet. You’ll see the difference.


5. More Energy. Those who switch to the Anabolic Diet always report feeling more energized:

* Jumping out of bed in the morning, waking up full
* Better recovery from workouts & daily activities
* No more blood sugar crashes
* Less irritability, no more mood swings
* No more heaviness after eating
* And much more

Another advantage of increasing testosterone production & controlling insuline.


6. You Can Eat What You Want. With the Anabolic Diet, there’s not one food that you will have to give up.

* During the week: high amounts of meat, fat, veggies & fruit
* Weekend: as much carbs as you can handle

It’s not what you eat that counts, it’s when.


7. No Hunger. You’ll never feel hungry on the Anabolic Diet, even when cutting weight:

* Fat satiates
* Fat delays hunger
* You’ll be eating more calories than before
* You’ll need to remind yourself to eat most of the time

Feeling hungry is no fun. Enter the Anabolic Diet.


8. No More Bloating. The Anabolic Diet is a natural diuretic. During the first weeks, you’ll notice a loss of weight. Water. High carbs diets are linked to water retention. With the Anabolic Diet, you’ll no more have a bloated look. You’ll look better.


9. It’s Cheaper. You’ll cut expenses on the Anabolic Diet:

* No need to buy low fat meat: you need the fat
* No more whey: you’ll get plenty of protein from your diet
* No essential fatty acids supplementation

More money in your pocket, another benefit of the Anabolic Diet.


10. No More Junk Cravings. The longer you eat healthy, the more you’ll get adverse effects from eating junk food. Eating too much junk food in the weekend will make you want to reach the couch.

After a few months on the Anabolic Diet, you’ll say goodbye to the junk cravings forever. From Stronglifts.com

Frank Needham
08-23-2008, 08:26 AM
The thing that attracted me to AD was how close it is to what I'm doing already with some minor tweaks. I'm mainly interested in what changes will come about from small tweaks. I basically only was eating carbs on training days and then eating to my hearts content on Saturday or Sunday. This will just be a little stricter (<30 g carbs) during the week with a more controlled madness on the weekend. Combined with IF and finding the right caloric balance, I'm pretty confident. I did Body Opus years ago and got flabby, smaller and weaker. I didn't have the experience I have now with eating, but it still wasn't a good experience. I have read many different experiences from people who are cutting/bulking and maintaining on AD. There is a HUGE (300+ post)thread on t-nation started by some powerlifters who have been doing AD for a while and swear by it for size/strength gain with minimal fat gain. I'm still reading the thread right now and if I can find it there is a really good explanation( I believe it was from Dr. Di Pasquale) about the shortcomings of BO and Duchaine's oversights when designing BO somewhere in there. I'll try and find that post , but the thread is huge and easy to get lost in. Here is the link if anyone wants to read it also. Good info by some seemingly knowledgeable athletes, no meathead BS. Definitely start at the beginning though, I think later in the thread is when the knuckle heads start chiming in.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/my_experience_on_the_anabolic_diet?id=658379&pageNo=0

Thats the same thread that was posted during a discussion about AD a ways back on CF. It was how I got interested in the AD originally. Some good info there on it.

joe waguespack
08-23-2008, 09:02 AM
Yeah, it started in 2005 and is still going strong.

Well, I just did a workout (fasted) and felt great. I did a bunch of sled pulling, farmers walks, sandbag cleans/carries, double KB swings, and various KB carries (overhead, rack). I felt great, my strength was down a little yesterday on squats, but I felt strong and energetic today. Getting ready for a nice big Ribeye and some eggs.

I noticed something weird today, it maybe all in my head but still interesting. I used to dip ( skoal) a lot , I quit about a year ago but recently had started back up again over the past two weeks. I was up to about a can a day again. Since I started this diet I haven't touched, actually haven't even thought about it. I just realized it today when I saw a half of can in my desk, I realized that I hadn't even thought to use it. Do you think that something chemical goes on with the ingestion of certain nutrient profiles that can curb certain "addictions" (for lack of a better word)?

Jon Alexander
08-23-2008, 02:07 PM
Hey Joe! I too used to dip ( at least a can a day) until about 3 weeks ago when i changed my diet. until I just read your post i have not really noticed it!! that is a weird feeling, but a good one!!
I am not on the AD but something similar( high fat, high protien, low carb) and started IF. I dont know if it is the diet combo or the IF? were you IF'ing before you switched to AD? this is very interesting, let me know what you think?

joe waguespack
08-23-2008, 03:04 PM
Hey Joe! I too used to dip ( at least a can a day) until about 3 weeks ago when i changed my diet. until I just read your post i have not really noticed it!! that is a weird feeling, but a good one!!
I am not on the AD but something similar( high fat, high protien, low carb) and started IF. I dont know if it is the diet combo or the IF? were you IF'ing before you switched to AD? this is very interesting, let me know what you think?

Yeah I was IF'ing for a while and just started AD this past week. I bought a can of dip on monday and started the AD on Tuesday and haven't dipped since then. Like I said I never even realized it until today. It is pretty interesting, maybe one of the more scientific guys will chime in with their thoughts. I guess there could be something chemical that goes on to control the nicotine cravings. I wonder if any smokers have experienced this or if it's just us dippers?

Craig Brown
08-23-2008, 03:43 PM
Now that's interesting, on the tobacky. I've been a 25 year smoker (even when I was an ultrarunner, yes) and I started getting much more serious on the clean eating front about when I quit, November 2007. No idea if they are related, but I've had no issues with wanting to smoke at all since I quit.

Jon Alexander
08-23-2008, 08:27 PM
Craig, are you doing IF? are you on a high fat low carb diet? please let me know as i am really interested in what the connection could possibly be!?

Craig Brown
08-23-2008, 10:03 PM
Hi Jon-

I don't IF too much, though I did a solid 13 hour fast months 2-3 of the not smoking. I was on a moderate strict paleo for a lot of that time, but have been eating a lot of ice cream and drinking about 24oz of whole milk a day for a couple months. Any time I have checked the eating on fitday, I am at 50% or higher fat, a gram or more protein per pound of bodyweight and less than 100 grams of net carbs a day. Certainly carbs are higher now with all the milk & ice cream...Lots of coffee in the AM, no alcohol ever, 2# of veggies a day+...

I have been working on quitting for a long time, and have quit for up to a few months at a time before. This has certainly been the easiest and longest. This is the first time I've tried as a non-drinker, which most def. helps!

joe waguespack
08-26-2008, 03:50 PM
Well, 1 week in so far. Nothing major to report, feeling a little drained today, but that is expected as I become fully depleted( supposedly). Still no nicotine cravings. I am looking forward to a nice IHOP breakfast on Sunday though, that will be my only "unclean" carbs that day, I plan on doing the rest of the load with clean carb sources.

Liam Dougherty Springer
08-26-2008, 06:28 PM
I tried AD, had no problem with no carb days and ate properly. The carb up days? Now that was a problem. Once I got started on those days there was no letting up :) I didn't get fatter but I didn't get leaner either. I'll be interested to see how AD + IF works for you Joe. I know you are able from having read your IF account on theiflife.com

Ditto. I beleive it could work for some people though. and I didn't IF at the time. Keep us posted.

joe waguespack
08-29-2008, 05:02 AM
I think God doesn't want me to be successful on low carb dietary experiments. LOL. The last time I did a diet like this was back in 1997 when I did the Bodyopus diet. I remember as the first carb up weekend approached and I had my nice IHOP breakfast planned, BOOM a hurricane hit. THis weekend, again my first carb up planned at IHOP and , BOOM a hurricane is hitting. My wife and I need to evacuate on Saturday , which will cause me to again miss my IHOP breakfast. Funny how I remember things like this.Oh well, I will try and make due the best I can, not being able to cook and plan out my meals will throw off my ratios , but I will try and get it done the best way I can. I'll be taking a few kettlebells on the road so at least I can train a little still.
I guess thats life in Louisiana. After Katrina the city was shut down for months , which greatly effected my routine. I'll just have to overcome and adapt. At least this time I have 11 more years of diet and training experience , so I can make it work. I'll just have to get creative. :D

Jane Michel
08-29-2008, 05:08 PM
!!!

Where do you have to evacuate to? Do you know how long you'll have to evacuate for?

Maybe it's that God doesn't want you to carb up :p or carb up at IHOP (what is IHOP?)

Will you have net access Joe?

Frank Needham
08-29-2008, 08:41 PM
Can't resist, International House of Pancakes. IHOP is God cursed :D already, I don't think it has anything to do with Joe.

joe waguespack
08-30-2008, 04:10 AM
I'm saying to hell with it and starting my carb load a day early. :D
I'm just evacuating to my parents farm about an hour north of here, we will still get hit , but we won't have to worry about the flooding up there.
I may have net access through my i phone, I guess I'll see how good AT&T really is.
A massive hurricane is hitting in a few days and all I can worry about is sticking to my diet, I have problems.

Jane Michel
08-30-2008, 04:43 AM
lol
enjoy your carb up!
i looked at the menu and wish they had something like that here, buffet style

Craig Brown
08-30-2008, 08:56 AM
Joe, disassociation gets a bad rap, but it has many, many uses. Have fun on the forced holiday. Me, I'd be carbo loading at the Du Monde...

Jane Michel
09-01-2008, 07:36 AM
so how was IHOP then? :D

joe waguespack
09-10-2008, 03:31 PM
OK , so the AD went crap right after my IHOP carb load. We eneded up having to stay out of town a little longer than we planned and basically training and food choices went to hell. I decided to just return to my old way of eating and give the AD another run when I knew I wouldn't be interrupted. That was a mistake, I started to pack on weight , both fat and water daily. I shot up ten pounds and felt like a bloated mess, just from adding in oatmeal and fruit back to my daily intake. I found an article from Dr. John Berardi that explained exactly what I was going through and how you have to basically cycle carbs back into your daily diet after being off of them for a while. Made sense to me , since I was going through exactly what he was describing in the article.

So it looks like hurricane Ike is going to leave us alone and I'm two days back into the no carb thing. This time I am following a Berardi twist on the AD, it's basically the AD with lower calories and a carb load every 14 days instead of every 5. We'll see, I have to say I feel much better even after just two days of lower carb intake. I am also planning on doing it a little cleaner this time as far as food choices. Eggs, spinach, mushrooms, ground beef, chicken breasts, olive oil, fish oil, and milled flax is pretty much all I'm eating for two weeks and than I may mix it up a bit. I'm very curious to give this diet a full run, so hopefully I won't screw up this time.

Dave Van Skike
09-10-2008, 04:30 PM
I read through this thread but I admit...I don't get it......6-7% BF is insanely low. If you are able to maintain or even advance your strength at that low a BF level why would you do this diet? to gain muscle without any fat at all? that seems weirdly hard.

joe waguespack
09-10-2008, 06:43 PM
I like to experiment with different eating strategies and see what happens. isn't that the dream though, add muscle without any fat at all? Some say it's impossible, but I have a feeling there is a perfect mix of dietary plans and training protocols that will produce that result. I may be way off base, but it keeps me entertained and from getting bored.:D

joe waguespack
09-18-2008, 04:51 PM
Well I'm almost at the end of my second induction period. I decided to ditch the low cal approach and stick with the protocol set forth in the diet. I bumped my calories up to 3000 a day at 60% fat/35%pro/5%carbs about a week ago. It's amazing but I actually started leaning out once I upped the cals. I am eating around double the calories I was eating on the Zone and still leaning out while ADDING bodyweight. I love this diet, and I am looking forward to my carb load on Sunday. This time it's all about the Shoney's breakfast bar.:D

Craig Brown
09-19-2008, 09:13 AM
Once the body figures out what you are doing nutritionally, there is a definite point of blance for the loss on that diet. Too low cal and the sytem panics and hold on...hit it just right, you get recomposition. I dropped about 30 pounds of fat ten years ago on that diet.

Craig

joe waguespack
09-20-2008, 08:47 AM
Getting ready for the carb up tomorrow. It's still going great. The hard part is fitting in 3000 calories into a five hour feeding window, but I have been having a shake with protein powder , eggs, olive oil, milled flax and walnuts as my last meal. The shake is about 1000 calories in one pop so it's making getting enough cals a little easier. I think I may do a four week cut at about 2500-2000 calories and then bump things up for a few weeks and add some weight. It seems very easy to add strength and weight on this diet without the fat gain usually associated with higher cals. I want to play with short cuts and bulks to see what happens before I extend the bulk for to long, I think that the shorter periods will keep the body guessing more and produce the leanest gains. We will see.

joe waguespack
09-21-2008, 09:42 AM
First carb load day:
Started with Shoney's breakfast bar, pancakes, and grits MMM!
felt fat and bloated and then shortly after passed out for a three hour nap
THen had two double stacks from wendy's and washed it down with a frosty.
The rest of the day will be cleaner carb options. th e diet calls for a 24-48 hour carb load, I will only be doing a 12 hour load , but I will definitely be loading up. I am tired , bloated and gassy. I actually can't wait to get back to good fat and protein. I really do not care for carbs anymore at all.

Frank Needham
09-21-2008, 11:47 AM
First carb load day:
Started with Shoney's breakfast bar, pancakes, and grits MMM!
felt fat and bloated and then shortly after passed out for a three hour nap
THen had two double stacks from wendy's and washed it down with a frosty.
The rest of the day will be cleaner carb options. th e diet calls for a 24-48 hour carb load, I will only be doing a 12 hour load , but I will definitely be loading up. I am tired , bloated and gassy. I actually can't wait to get back to good fat and protein. I really do not care for carbs anymore at all.

It is remarkable that one can go pretty much all one's life ripping them off like no one's business, only to find out that if you eat properly none of that stuff is needed. Plus the bloating, gahg!

joe waguespack
09-21-2008, 08:12 PM
Good Lord!! Just finished my last carb meal of the day. I actually put on 18lbs in one day!!!! I am fat , bloated and miserable. I'm glad this is only once a week. Every muscle is swollen like it's ready to pop. I guess my glycogen stores are officially replenished. I'll admit my first carb load was a bit "dirty" and I did manage to get a few beers down, next week I will stick with cleaner foods and see how different the effects are.

Allen Yeh
09-22-2008, 10:59 AM
18 lbs in one day....holy crap.

Liam Dougherty Springer
09-22-2008, 01:57 PM
I have a simmilar reaction whenever I come off a period with little to no carbs. It seems to be exajerated by crappy meals Yesterday I ate buckweat pancakes diner apple sauce hashbrowns and a biscut along with variose breakfast meats. I gained like 3 lbs..... ....actually I was more bloated previouse to when I weighed myself though... ...18lbs is crazy:eek: must be retaining serious water be interesting to see what happens next. I can visibly see and feel the puffy water beweent my skin and muscle.. Makes me think I am gaining fat when I honestly know that on a caloric intake evaluation that amount of fat synthisis is imposible.

Kelly Frankson
09-22-2008, 02:45 PM
Will there always be a huge spike in weight on the carb load day, or does your body eventually learn whats going on and stabilize throughout the 5 days off 2 days on carb loading cycle?

joe waguespack
09-22-2008, 03:34 PM
I think it will stabilize somewhat. There will always be a few pounds of weight gain from the carb ups due to water retention for a day or two. I just honestly went overboard BIG TIME. I know I didn't put on 18 lbs of fat in 12 hours so I'm not to worried about it, It;s actually kind of funny to me. Next week though I will stick with much cleaner options to see what happens. I have been sick and bloated feeling all day today as well. Very poor carb choices on my part , but damn it was fun:D I couldn't imagine doing a 48 hour carb load like some do, I would gain like 50 lbs.

Trygve Lunde
09-22-2008, 04:30 PM
tell me all u ate that day ;D

i bet i can beet you on those days :D

joe waguespack
09-22-2008, 04:44 PM
Ha,

I started with the Shoneys breakfast bar, about 5 plates of pancakes, french toast, grits, bacon, sausage and eggs
Then I had two double stacks and a frosty shake from Wendy's
Then my wife and I ate the top of our wedding cake that we had frozen and saved to celebrate our 1 year anniversary , pretty much a whole cake
then i had two plates of crawfish pasta, one plate of jambalaya about 15-20 finger sandwiches, another piece of cake at my friends wife's baby shower
and I finished it off with 8 Miller Lights and about 10 more finger sandwiches
oh I'm sick just thinking about it.

Jane Michel
09-22-2008, 04:55 PM
Then my wife and I ate the top of our wedding cake that we had frozen and saved to celebrate our 1 year anniversary , pretty much a whole cake


Wow. You froze your wedding cake for a year to celebrate your anniversary.

joe waguespack
09-22-2008, 05:54 PM
Yeah, It's a tradition to save the top of the cake and eat it on the first anniversary. At least thats what I was told. It was surprisingly good for being frozen for a year.

Ryan Lynch
09-22-2008, 09:31 PM
Ha,

I started with the Shoneys breakfast bar, about 5 plates of pancakes, french toast, grits, bacon, sausage and eggs
Then I had two double stacks and a frosty shake from Wendy's
Then my wife and I ate the top of our wedding cake that we had frozen and saved to celebrate our 1 year anniversary , pretty much a whole cake
then i had two plates of crawfish pasta, one plate of jambalaya about 15-20 finger sandwiches, another piece of cake at my friends wife's baby shower
and I finished it off with 8 Miller Lights and about 10 more finger sandwiches
oh I'm sick just thinking about it.

You are an absolute animal!!! That is awesome!

-Ryan

joe waguespack
09-23-2008, 06:11 AM
Well, 10 of the 18 lbs is already gone this morning. I didn't get a chance to train yesterday so I'm not sure how that would have went, but I will definitely be training today.

Trygve Lunde
09-23-2008, 08:15 AM
haha lovely meals :D but wasnt that a big much fat? thaught the carb day was suppose to be really low fat?

im having a carb day on friday or saturday do you have any good recpies or things i can buy for the day? i really like bread and bakery products. i also love chocklade but thats to much fat i guess? i can eat 500g chocklade without a problem :D

joe waguespack
09-23-2008, 10:00 AM
Actually the fat intake should be kept somewhat high , around 30-35% of calories. The protein should be lowered around 10-15%. Fat is still being used as a primary fuel source even though you are taking in carbs. If you drop the fat you are telling your body to burn the carbs for fuel instead of it being used strictly for glycogen replenishment. You still want to keep your body fat adapted. I did go a bit overboard but I after two weeks of induction it's kind of a free for all. If you want to do it clean, which I suggest for the long haul, I would stick with oatmeal, brown rice, whole and sprouted grains and things like that. What I will probably do next week is start my carb up with some quicker carbs ( probably one "cheat" meal instead of a whole day) and as the day progresses transition to grains and healthier choices. And I will also keep it stricter aiming for around 500-600 grams of carbs.

Neill Smith
09-23-2008, 11:24 AM
What I will probably do next week is start my carb up with some quicker carbs ( probably one "cheat" meal instead of a whole day) and as the day progresses transition to grains and healthier choices.

This is actually the prescription in Ultimate Diet 2.0. He recommends fast digesting carbohydrates (not necessarily a cheat, but maybe a sports drink) at the beginning of the load to kick-start glycogen replenishment.

Trygve Lunde
09-23-2008, 02:44 PM
i have to go over board on my carb day :D but i will just be eating one meal, one BIG MEAL :) so i will be fasting trought out the day and will make something or buy something lovely to eat. think i will search the net the coming days for some good recipies on things i can make

you should start a thread for that aswell, a carb up thread where people could post there favorite meals on the carb days

Kelly Frankson
09-23-2008, 03:15 PM
So if you feel so good on the low carb days, and so bad during the carb load days, why do you need to do the carb load? Why not just stay on a 60%fat/30% protein/10% carb type scheme all year long?

joe waguespack
09-23-2008, 03:46 PM
That would work if your main objective was to just live on a low carb diet, like atkins or something like that. The goal of the anabolic diet is to manipulate hormones (including insulin) to build or maintain the most muscle and lose the most fat. The carb load days are just as important to the diet as the week of no carbs. I think I just felt like crap because of my carb choices and the massive amounts that I ate. It is also suggested to try different types of carb loads to find what works best for you and what types of carbs get the job done without the negative feelings. Some go dirty every time with no problem, while others stick with oatmeal and blueberries for every meal. Like any diet it's about finding what works. I'm still fairly new to this so there is plenty of experimenting to do.

Trygve Lunde
09-24-2008, 04:40 AM
i think the carb day is also very psycologicaly good. its so easy to eat low carb and fast during the week and know that on saturday im going to enjoy myself. So at the end of the week im starting to search the internet for great recpies or walking around the stores looking for some good carby stuff to buy on my carb day. but im a food wreck so that probably isnt normal.

Liam Dougherty Springer
09-24-2008, 07:16 PM
Joe when I was following a Cyclic ketonic diet exactly like you are on I would do a full body high rep anibolic workout at a moderate intensity just previouse to my first carb up meal so I could utilize the PWO window to insrease my bodies glycogen storeing efficiancy. Are you doing anything like that?

Jon Alexander
09-25-2008, 07:58 PM
Hey Joe awesome Post!!

I have a quick Question for you, did you read the book before you started the diet? and if so which book did you read?

this post has got me very interested in this way of eating. thanks and keep up the good work brother.

Mike ODonnell
09-25-2008, 08:46 PM
Joe when I was following a Cyclic ketonic diet exactly like you are on I would do a full body high rep anibolic workout at a moderate intensity just previouse to my first carb up meal so I could utilize the PWO window to insrease my bodies glycogen storeing efficiancy. Are you doing anything like that?

Bingo.

Liam Dougherty Springer
09-27-2008, 09:39 AM
i think the carb day is also very psycologicaly good. its so easy to eat low carb and fast during the week and know that on saturday im going to enjoy myself. So at the end of the week im starting to search the internet for great recpies or walking around the stores looking for some good carby stuff to buy on my carb day. but im a food wreck so that probably isnt normal.

One of my guidlines specifically Happieness requires I enjoy myself durring any practice if the only thing that is getting me through the week is looking forward to one day at the end somethings gotta change. Not knockin you I do relate to temperary periods of discomfort for a exteded feeling of gratification but only if they are very temperary.

Arien Malec
09-27-2008, 11:30 AM
Joe when I was following a Cyclic ketonic diet exactly like you are on I would do a full body high rep anibolic workout at a moderate intensity just previouse to my first carb up meal so I could utilize the PWO window to insrease my bodies glycogen storeing efficiancy. Are you doing anything like that?

That's basically the bodyopus approach, I believe. Lyle McDonald mixes it up in UD2.0 by putting the glycogen depletion workouts early during the low carb cycle to maximize fat loss. If your body is already glycogen depleted, an intense workout prior to carb-up will prime the pump.

If you are doing AD for mass gain, the glycogen depleting workout prior carb up is a good idea as you don't particularly need the fat loss effect of glycogen depletion and low carb.

Trygve Lunde
09-27-2008, 11:35 AM
One of my guidlines specifically Happieness requires I enjoy myself durring any practice if the only thing that is getting me through the week is looking forward to one day at the end somethings gotta change. Not knockin you I do relate to temperary periods of discomfort for a exteded feeling of gratification but only if they are very temperary.


not through the training, but through the hard diet week with very restriced calories etc. but yeah im a bit special on that subject. i dont mind having 6 days of hell if i only get 1 day of heaven. so it works for me :) its only thursday and friday thats hard since then i can see saturday coming.

Trygve Lunde
09-27-2008, 03:47 PM
carb day is finnished and i feel awfull. think im done with carb days for a while. think im going low carb all the way for some time now. the food doesnt taste that good anymore. bread, chocklade etc. i dont fansy it. That is a very good thing tho so i can get down to 5-6% body fat :) but will see, maybe on friday i want a new carb day. hopefully not

George Mounce
09-27-2008, 04:03 PM
carb day is finnished and i feel awfull. think im done with carb days for a while. think im going low carb all the way for some time now. the food doesnt taste that good anymore. bread, chocklade etc. i dont fansy it. That is a very good thing tho so i can get down to 5-6% body fat :) but will see, maybe on friday i want a new carb day. hopefully not

Could you not do a carb day without using a grain product as your carbs? Eat whole fruits and veggies, even some slow-cook oatmeal would probably do you a ton better than some bread and muffins.

I recently added slow-cook oatmeal to non-fast day breakfasts and it hasn't caused any bad stuff to happen so I'm going to black box that as an ok thing to have.

Craig Brown
09-27-2008, 04:48 PM
Carbo loading without grains is a good thing. yams, fruit, etc. Top Notch (as Lemmy would say).

joe waguespack
09-28-2008, 06:29 AM
My second carb day has begun. This time it is all oatmeal w/ bluberries, sprouted grain bread, and probably some sushi later on. I was reading up on the AD and carb laods in general and some were saying that fruit is not the best choice , especially at the beginning of the load due to the fact that it will work to replenish liver glycogen rather than muscle glycogen. I read this in another forum so I don't know how accurate this info is. Any thoughts?

I know I had my first meal of oatmeal, blueberries and cinnamon toast made with Ezekial bread and feel much better than I did last week after the pancake fest. I definitely think the clean load is the way to go.

Trygve Lunde
09-28-2008, 02:53 PM
Could you not do a carb day without using a grain product as your carbs? Eat whole fruits and veggies, even some slow-cook oatmeal would probably do you a ton better than some bread and muffins.

I recently added slow-cook oatmeal to non-fast day breakfasts and it hasn't caused any bad stuff to happen so I'm going to black box that as an ok thing to have.

i know, but i really like bakery goods :)

George Mounce
09-28-2008, 06:22 PM
i know, but i really like bakery goods :)

But you also really like to feel awful it seems. :p

Jane Michel
09-28-2008, 09:27 PM
i think the carb day is also very psycologicaly good. its so easy to eat low carb and fast during the week and know that on saturday im going to enjoy myself. So at the end of the week im starting to search the internet for great recpies or walking around the stores looking for some good carby stuff to buy on my carb day. but im a food wreck so that probably isnt normal.

Thank goodness you posted this. I thought I was the only person that drooled at food porn and looked up receipes and stared longingly at boxes of biscuits and loaves of bread and tubs of icecream and planned a great carb (coma) feast towards carb-up day.

Craig Brown
09-28-2008, 09:38 PM
For me it seems like grains are the main evil. Ice cream- fine. Yams- fine. Apples- fine. Bread? Not so good. I am feeling much better adding milk and hard boiled eggs here and there instead of protein shakes.

Trygve Lunde
09-29-2008, 01:05 AM
Thank goodness you posted this. I thought I was the only person that drooled at food porn and looked up receipes and stared longingly at boxes of biscuits and loaves of bread and tubs of icecream and planned a great carb (coma) feast towards carb-up day.

lovely to hear :D

joe waguespack
09-29-2008, 11:36 AM
Whole laod was done with oatmeal, blueberries, sprouted grain bread, sushi and half a pint of ice cream at the very end. I felt fine all day, no bloat or sick feelings and I only gained 5 lbs this week instead of 18 like last week. I took in a total of about 500g carbs from 95% clean sources and it definitely made all the difference in the world.

Craig Loizides
09-29-2008, 01:19 PM
Joe,
Here's my take on the fruit issue. Most fruits and vegetables are roughly 50% glucose and 50% fructose. The glucose can be used by the liver or muscles. The fructose can only be used by the liver. Once liver stores are full (about 100 g) additional fructose is converted to fat. The majority of the carbs in a carb load (or any moderate to high carb diet) should probably be starchy carbs.

Liam Dougherty Springer
10-01-2008, 05:11 PM
Whole laod was done with oatmeal, blueberries, sprouted grain bread, sushi and half a pint of ice cream at the very end. I felt fine all day, no bloat or sick feelings and I only gained 5 lbs this week instead of 18 like last week. I took in a total of about 500g carbs from 95% clean sources and it definitely made all the difference in the world.

Sounds alot more like what I experienced in water weight gains. That 18 lbs. was scary. lol

I think it would make since to use fruits like berries, bannanas, and grapes in the first carb up meal as they are higher in Glucose than some will provide some good enzymes when raw and also will get the insulin going which helps when storing glycogen. Plus intitially your liver is going to need some glycogen and with all the fat you eat you want a healthy liver.:)

Patrick Yeung
10-12-2008, 10:38 AM
Ive been following this thread for awhile now behind the scenes.

What happened to it? I loved readin about how it was giong because I was interested in trying this.

I have been trying to cut out carbs but I just crave em too much, so slowly takin a little out at a time.

One question though. How many carbs are you eating on the days youre not loading.

I am familiar with block porportions as well.

Thanks

joe waguespack
10-14-2008, 06:15 PM
Ive been following this thread for awhile now behind the scenes.

What happened to it? I loved readin about how it was giong because I was interested in trying this.

I have been trying to cut out carbs but I just crave em too much, so slowly takin a little out at a time.

One question though. How many carbs are you eating on the days youre not loading.

I am familiar with block porportions as well.

Thanks

Still going with the diet, nothing spectacular to report lately. I'm going to stick with it for a while , but I think I was leaner and felt better when I was eating more balanced ratios of carbs, fats, and proteins. I was reading that it actually takes a few months of being on the diet to become completely "fat adapted" , so I'm going to stick it out a little longer. I also think that some people respond better to carbs than others, and I may be one of those people. I was never a huge carb eater mainly fruits, veggies and oatmeal.

As far the days I'm not carb loading I keep my carb intake under 30 grams. I get at least 20 grams of fiber and all my carbs come from vegetables. Right now I have dropped my calories to 2000 a day with a 60% fat, 35% pro and 5% carb breakdown. I also think I was leaning out more and feeling better when my calories were higher , around 3000. I may try raising my calories up again next week and see what happens. That would be strange if I dropped weight and fat on higher calories.

joe waguespack
10-23-2008, 08:58 AM
I'm done! I decided to end this AD experiment. It seems to work great for a lot of people but I am not one of them. I think the initial shift is great from dropping carbs and upping fat , while keeping cals high. I definitely leaned out ( due to dropping water) and it was nice to eat good high fat foods for a while. But it definitely started to taper off for me after a while. I began to noticeably add bodyfat , even as I dropped calories. I attempted to up my cals for a week and see if I felt better , but I did not. Low Carbs does not work for everyone, especially going low carbs at the expense of fruit and veggies, and beer ( which were my main carb sources anyway).

I guess I just respond better to a Zone type of breakdown, still basically lower carb and higher fat than most diets, but just enough to keep me feeling, looking, and performing well. I have added fruits and oatmeal back into my diet for the past couple of days and already see and feel a positive difference. I know some that get super lean on 0 carbs and have no issues with performance, but I am not one of them.

Zone ratios with mostly Paleo food choices combined with Intermittent fasting is my formula for success.

Experimentation is over, I will never stray again.:D

Mike ODonnell
10-23-2008, 10:04 AM
Low Carbs does not work for everyone, especially going low carbs at the expense of fruit and veggies, and beer ( which were my main carb sources anyway).

Zone ratios with mostly Paleo food choices combined with Intermittent fasting is my formula for success.

Well at least you learned what does and does not work for you.....I am also one of those that does not do well low carb (tried it long ago....was horendous). Using IF and having more carbs on workout days works well for me....without going overboard (otherwise I'll be messed up with blood sugar crashes for the whole day). I like the slow and steady route....that and I like my beer too.

Craig Loizides
10-23-2008, 11:11 AM
You might want to try the moderate version of the metabolic diet before going back to zone. The strict version of the metabolic diet is the old anabolic diet. The moderate version is about 100g carbs during the week with an optional mid-week carb reload and higher carbs during the weekend. Throw in some IF as desired. I prefer this to zone.

Metabolic diet trouble shooting guide
http://www.metabolicdiet.com/images/md_tshoot.pdf

Patrick Yeung
10-26-2008, 12:07 PM
Im with ya Joe.

Just three weeks into it, and I was looking noticably tired, let alone feeling it. And on top of that, my workouts were suffering after the first week. I started putting on bf and I didnt have the urge to workout, or rather energy to.

I tried to Friday, and dislocted my shoulder on a power clean. First time, quite painful and no fun. Now, ive got myself a nice setback, not sure how long it takes for these to heal though.

Im off it, goin back with zone ratios, and trying to expand my window longer.

And no more workin out fasted for me.

Liam Dougherty Springer
10-26-2008, 02:45 PM
I gotta say I have had the same experience on long term ketonic or CKD however dipping down into that very low carb ratio for a few days every once in a while along with some long fasts seems to keep my body responding well to a zoneish ratio. I think you want to be sure to keep from ever really filling glycogen but beeing aware of your activities when you allow your self to get real low.

Right now I am into my second week of no carb load and about 80g carbs on WO days and 30g carbs on rest which is ` 10 and 5 % kcals. Next saturday it will have been 2 weeks since the last load and I am going to load and go into another two weeks of something like What craig described as the moderate metabolic diet.

This is all during a 7 week strength training cycle and so far going from a Eat to gain whatever diet to what I am doing right now has been making for some excellent results. Well I have not remained lean but during these two weeks I have been leaning while maintaining strength gains and I am hopeing that I will not reach the extent of my capacity to do so this low carb before I go into another high kcal and higher carb period that will allow for increased recovery and mass gain and thus hopefully continued strength gains. We'll see.

I guess this is all just saying. I can't seem to stick to any one plan and I am allways trying to adjust as you yourself admitted to Joe. And MOD always advises to keep the body guessing which is a large influence in some of the descisions I have been makeing.

So I have a feeling while you say you will never stray again there may one day be a thread started by Joe Waguespack with some dietary exploration takeing place.;)

joe waguespack
10-27-2008, 06:06 AM
Yeah, I can't deny that. I do get bored easily these days.

Rachel Izzo
10-27-2008, 12:03 PM
hmmm the moderate metabolic diet is 100g of carbs a day (or less), with higher carbs on the weekends? That seems to be kind of what I'm doing. Frankly I'm getting kind of tired of eating super super low carb. I feel almost TOO obsessive when I can't have a piece of fruit in the morning. Too much isn't good, obviously, but I feel like there's something wrong if I can't have a piece of fruit in the AM. Which means maybe I'll go for the moderate approach, that way I can get my fruit in if I want it.

I had to give up on IF, at least most days. I just wasn't getting enough food in for my workouts, I lost weight (muscle mass) and strength. I still throw a couple in a few days a week (and I have a 12+ hour fast built in every day), so we'll see how it all goes.

joe waguespack
10-28-2008, 11:37 AM
I was reading through this thread again to maybe see what happened. I realized that at the beginning of the diet I had been IF'ing and eating around 16-18 Zone Blocks ( which is really not a lot of calories, right around 2000-2500). I had been eating the same amount of calories for a long time and when I started the AD I bumped my calories up to 3000 a day for the first two weeks. I think the addition of 500-1000 calories gave my metabolism a nice boost along with the improved nutrient utilization, from IF'ing for a while, explains the immediate fat loss and muscle gain. Once the initial adaptation was over I began to add bodyfat and basically backslide.

I am also experiencing a slight BF gain at the moment from adding carbs back into my diet. I tried to cycle them back in slowly and really have just added fruit. I guess I have to deal with it while my body readjusts to the carbs. I don't think it should be that drastic since my carbs only consist of vegetables, fruits and berries.

Jane Michel
10-28-2008, 03:58 PM
Joe, I think some people on the T-Nation AD thread (can't exactly remember.... read the thread a year ago!) use Berardi's Getting Unshredded plan to reintroduce carbs. See http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1226387 (T-Nation so not WFS).

joe waguespack
10-28-2008, 04:51 PM
Yeah , I checked that out. I have definitely started putting weight on, but I find it hard to believe that a few pieces of fruit a day is the culprit. For the first time in a while I can't figure out what the hell my body is doing.
I have pretty much been eating ground turkey, chicken breasts, eggs, raw spinach, raw broccoli,blueberries, grapefruit, red grapes, apples, almonds, and olive oil. Still IF'ing with a 19 hour fast most days. I can't see fruit making me hold that much water, but I have definitely smoothed out. I don't like what is happening , and it was definitely not worth trying the AD in my opinion. Gaining weight/bodyfat while eating low calories of lean proteins, fruits, veggies, and healthy fats is kind of mind boggling to me. I didn't think that was physically possible. :confused:

Liam Dougherty Springer
10-29-2008, 09:33 AM
Joe I always have more success introducing carbs in a cycle like manner. I am sure you alweady put most your carbs PWO but also I would have some days I ate extra low carb again in order to give my body a break while it is adjusting. Also sometimes uping my protein ratio will push out a little excess water. Just some thoughts. Oh yeah and the BF during the adjustment is common for me as well but its always temperary something my body will just adjust on its own.

Oh yeah and Rachel I can never find a good enough reason not to start the day with at least a half an apple (if I am really trying to go super low carb) usualy at least a whole apple or pear. Gotta get that liver glycogen goin after a fast in order to prepare for a high fat diet even if the fast is only 8 hours of sleep.:D

Rachel Izzo
10-30-2008, 12:17 PM
Joe I always have more success introducing carbs in a cycle like manner. I am sure you alweady put most your carbs PWO but also I would have some days I ate extra low carb again in order to give my body a break while it is adjusting. Also sometimes uping my protein ratio will push out a little excess water. Just some thoughts. Oh yeah and the BF during the adjustment is common for me as well but its always temperary something my body will just adjust on its own.

Oh yeah and Rachel I can never find a good enough reason not to start the day with at least a half an apple (if I am really trying to go super low carb) usualy at least a whole apple or pear. Gotta get that liver glycogen goin after a fast in order to prepare for a high fat diet even if the fast is only 8 hours of sleep.:D

GOOD because this morning I had some salmon with olive oil, a whole apple, and a WHOLE lot of almond butter! yummmm

Mike ODonnell
10-30-2008, 12:33 PM
I say take the AD, IF, (EAS)ABCDE diet from long ago, mix in some Body Opus and you will get something that works. The trick is mastering that formula and then making is random enough and non-routine to maximize gains.

People sell programs less advanced than that for $100+ on the net.....why we giving it all away? ;)

joe waguespack
10-30-2008, 01:18 PM
I think I will actually trade in the AD, ABCD, the WXYZ, the 123 and the OCD for what I think may be the perfect recipe for success:

Don't eat for a while ( 16-21 hours) then stuff yourself with a ton of raw green veggies,high fiber fruits and berries, meats, eggs, nuts and healthy oils for about 5-6 hours ( you will still probably not be eating enough calories)

Mix that with a few high intensity weight training sessions a week and then blend appropriately with a dash of beer and proper amounts of relaxation and enjoyment on the weekends.

Jane Michel
10-30-2008, 03:34 PM
I think I will actually trade in the AD, ABCD, the WXYZ, the 123 and the OCD for what I think may be the perfect recipe for success:

Don't eat for a while ( 16-21 hours) then stuff yourself with a ton of raw green veggies,high fiber fruits and berries, meats, eggs, nuts and healthy oils for about 5-6 hours ( you will still probably not be eating enough calories)

Mix that with a few high intensity weight training sessions a week and then blend appropriately with a dash of beer and proper amounts of relaxation and enjoyment on the weekends.

Sounds lovely :)

Mike ODonnell
10-30-2008, 04:33 PM
I think I will actually trade in the AD, ABCD, the WXYZ, the 123 and the OCD for what I think may be the perfect recipe for success:

Don't eat for a while ( 16-21 hours) then stuff yourself with a ton of raw green veggies,high fiber fruits and berries, meats, eggs, nuts and healthy oils for about 5-6 hours ( you will still probably not be eating enough calories)

Mix that with a few high intensity weight training sessions a week and then blend appropriately with a dash of beer and proper amounts of relaxation and enjoyment on the weekends.

so you read my diary? ...although I wouldn't use the word dash and beer together. :)

that and eat 80% paleoish.....20% whatever you can lay your hands on.....never count or measure anything....and go out and enjoy life before it goes right by.

Craig Brown
10-30-2008, 09:20 PM
That sounds like the way to go, Joe.

You got 'described' in the Outside article on Gym Jones, btw...made me smile.

Craig

Rachel Izzo
10-30-2008, 11:24 PM
that and eat 80% paleoish.....20% whatever you can lay your hands on.....never count or measure anything....and go out and enjoy life before it goes right by.

WOW I like that philosophy!!!!

joe waguespack
10-31-2008, 06:48 AM
That sounds like the way to go, Joe.

You got 'described' in the Outside article on Gym Jones, btw...made me smile.

Craig

"described"? Is there a link to that article that I can check out, or do I need to just pick up a copy somewhere?

Craig Brown
10-31-2008, 09:34 AM
I couldn't find it online. It's a good article in the November issue- the guy that wrote it was in your seminar.

Also of interest (but out of my willingness to pay) is the new Gym Jones site, discussed here:

https://members.gymjones.com/salvation.php

Also, my favorite rant of the season:

http://www.gymjones.com/schedule.php?date=20081026

Craig

Liam Dougherty Springer
10-31-2008, 10:05 AM
I love where this thread has gone.

Truley if I were to say one thing brougth about the most healthy change in my eating it would be IF. Something happens and my body starts sending me messages that make since and I can eat intuitively. No more measuring and what not. Sometimes I keep track of my intake to see what I have been doing and what results I am getting but very rarely is it because I am trying to control my intake as much as understand it.

Maybe I will try out that ABCDE thoiugh worth a shot:rolleyes:

Oh and rachel I am breaking a fast as we speak with some apple pear some raw cheese and aWHOLE lot of raw almond butter.... Yummmmmm! LOL

joe waguespack
11-02-2008, 06:35 AM
I couldn't find it online. It's a good article in the November issue- the guy that wrote it was in your seminar.

Also of interest (but out of my willingness to pay) is the new Gym Jones site, discussed here:

https://members.gymjones.com/salvation.php

Also, my favorite rant of the season:

http://www.gymjones.com/schedule.php?date=20081026

Craig

I finally checked out the article, it was a pretty good write up. For the record though, I was never a SWAT commander, just a team member. I will never hear the end of it if any of the guys from my team see that.

Jane Michel
11-05-2008, 03:36 AM
Just from my personal experience, the whole AD thing really has screwed with my metabolism. Prior to giving it a try I was basically doing a 19 hour fast/ 5 hour feed IF, with Paleo food choices and Zone block ratios 15-18 blocks. THat was the leanest I ever was and the best I ever felt and it seemed that I could quickly make changes in my physique by simply altering my training and not having to make dietary changes. Since coming off the AD and going back to doing what I was doing before I have had a lot of stomach problems, I generally feel like crap and I have added a good bit of bodyfat.

Hey Joe, I took the above quote off the thread about losing muscle. What sort of stomach problems have you been having? And what's your diet like now?

joe waguespack
11-05-2008, 07:27 AM
I pretty much returned to what I was doing before the AD, Zone proportions (15-18 blocks a day ), Paleo food choices, 16-20 hour daily fasts. As far as the stomach trouble goes , I have had a sort of burning in my stomach , along with a good bit of bloating, and without getting to descriptive: "Like a goose" would be a good way to put it. I almost have felt like I am dealing with some sort of stomach virus, but it's been going on for two weeks now.