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Danny John
12-20-2006, 04:09 PM
I read that discussion you emailed me about. You explained it well...idiocy followed. Crappy metabolic work is not the answer to crappy clean technique!!!

Bottom line: cleans beat up the wrists of a young lifter. The snatch is the same movement, but they can't do that "reverse curly" thingee. So...you teach the big movement, the jump from the RDL...then, you move the hands to the clean position. The athlete "catches" correctly and you don't have the issue of wrist pain.

Of course, as a coward and clown...what do I know? I have been teaching people how to clean since Ford was president and this is my experience.

The comment that I only care about "Masters Totals" was beyond offensive...

Allen Yeh
12-21-2006, 02:49 AM
I read that discussion you emailed me about. You explained it well...idiocy followed. Crappy metabolic work is not the answer to crappy clean technique!!!

Bottom line: cleans beat up the wrists of a young lifter. The snatch is the same movement, but they can't do that "reverse curly" thingee. So...you teach the big movement, the jump from the RDL...then, you move the hands to the clean position. The athlete "catches" correctly and you don't have the issue of wrist pain.

Of course, as a coward and clown...what do I know? I have been teaching people how to clean since Ford was president and this is my experience.

The comment that I only care about "Masters Totals" was beyond offensive...

I actually didn't know how to reply to what was said it's like he didn't read anything I had posted on the topic. I wanted to say you are able teach the snatch to high school athletes in a group setting. There is no reason on a one on one basis to be unable to teach the snatch to a client....unless you don't know how to teach it!

I find myself posting less and less there. Thank goodness for the Performance Menu! :D Thanks again for replying to that email the other day, I really wanted to make sure I wasn't going off on a tangent of what you had said.

Allen Yeh
12-21-2006, 02:53 AM
For those interested in the discussion discussed:

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/22/34227.html

Mike ODonnell
12-21-2006, 06:25 AM
I'll take a DB snatch over a DB clean anyday....even for crappy metabolic work. Ha. Greg said it well over there...if you can do a snatch, you already know how to do a clean. I use DBs mostly, but most my clients are not athletes.

Either way...I already said my goodbye to that board, as you can tell all the free thinkers are gone.

Ken Urakawa
12-21-2006, 06:57 AM
Amen

Robb Wolf
12-21-2006, 07:04 AM
Well...since Dan is of "suspect moral character" and all that I guess we need to find a Crossfit endorsed coach for a definitive answer. Unless the roster has changed Coach Mike Burgner is the CrossFit O-lifting coach...and HE teaches the snatch first.

Now obviously there are loads of ways to approach this but between these two guys we have...what like 200years of coaching experience (just kidding guys, don't kick my ass!).

I don't know...who better to listen to than two coaches who teach these movements for a living? I'll do some digging but I think John Davies (Renegade Training) teaches the snatch first. Pretty compelling to me.

Danny John
12-21-2006, 07:15 AM
I guess the real point is that when teaching someone, mastery is the key. I kill my novices (metabolically speaking) with threes and fives in the snatch and the clean. I would rather have someone doing serious triples than garbage thirties.

You have to be careful here. 25 Air Squats..."perfectly done"...doesn't equal a double bodyweight back squat. I'm talking about carryover into performance, of course...

Enough. I bored.

Robb's constant barbs at my advanced age has weakened my resolve...

Allen Yeh
12-21-2006, 07:59 AM
Robb's constant barbs at my advanced age has weakened my resolve...

What? I mean you can't be a day over...60?:eek:

Sorry Robb made me do it...

Ron Nelson
12-21-2006, 09:44 AM
I read that thread with great interest and wondered why, if any of those who posted (other than Alan and Greg) had attended even a CF seminar, didn't anyone mention Mike Burgener's snatch progression? It was most curious to see that some will take an O-lifting question and use it as an excuse to pile on certain people.

I left that board 18 months ago, not that I'm keeping track, when it was apparent a sense of humor is not wanted on the threads. I actually had a moderator make that point perfectly clear to me in a post and in e-mails.
No, the moderator wasn't a she and it wasn't Robb.

Jamila Bey
12-21-2006, 11:19 AM
Okay...

Let me butt my fat butt in here and play unasked for den mommy.

Before this thread becomes all things "they attacked me publicly on their boards while going off half cocked" let's just be glad that we're in a happier place.

Happy Winter Solstice!

Danny John
12-21-2006, 11:31 AM
Den Mother:
I'll call you tonight about the clinic.

Billy_Brummel
12-21-2006, 11:37 AM
They attacked me publicly on their boards while going off half cocked!!
(couldn't resist)

Ron Nelson
12-21-2006, 11:53 AM
Amen, sister.

Mike ODonnell
12-21-2006, 12:53 PM
Now I see the problem..I was half cocked first....damnit I can never get it right....Yep, all good...all positive......I feel like breaking into song...

"Some day we'll find it....the Fitness Connection...The O-lifters, The distance runners...and me....la la la" ...(in my best Kermit the Frog voice...no idea why I had Rainbow connection in my head.)

Ken Urakawa
12-21-2006, 01:37 PM
Could it have anything to do with your avatar...?

Not that there's anything wrong with the muppets.

Steve Shafley
12-21-2006, 08:26 PM
I'm not having any problems not saying anything...no, not at all. Uh huh.

Jamila Bey
12-21-2006, 11:13 PM
Dammit Mike, I was half cocked first! And your writing should have attributed that half cocked-ness to the place you got it from!

Then again I no longer have any cock at all...

Ron Nelson
12-22-2006, 10:41 AM
Dammit Mike, I was half cocked first! And your writing should have attributed that half cocked-ness to the place you got it from!

Then again I no longer have any cock at all...

Welcome to "Cock Talk" with your host, Jamila.

Yikes.

Steve Shafley
12-22-2006, 11:30 AM
I stumbled into the wrong cafe in Amsterdam, and it took me over an hour to realize I was the only one not wearing leather chaps and a vest. Let's not speak of this further.

Later on, to redeem myself, I went to the rugby bar in the corner of the Red Light District to watch some of the world cup.

This has nothing to do with anything else, does it?

Robb Wolf
12-27-2006, 03:04 PM
Okay...

Let me butt my fat butt in here and play unasked for den mommy.

Before this thread becomes all things "they attacked me publicly on their boards while going off half cocked" let's just be glad that we're in a happier place.

Happy Winter Solstice!

Jamilla-
A butt-insky AND a Hippy? Ok sister, we need to talk.

Jeremy Jones
12-27-2006, 03:21 PM
Snatches are better than Jerks. . .

in life and in athletic pursuits.


For the record: I am very proud of Shaf for his lack of direct participation of this thread.:D



Has anyone else noticed that Dan mentioned Fmr President Ford like 6 days before his demise?

Coincidence?

Steve Shafley
12-27-2006, 07:35 PM
I've said my piece, Mister Jones.

I think everyone knows my opinion on particular topics.