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John Haydon Boatner
09-09-2008, 04:36 PM
Since you eat the same amount of food in a smaller window has anyone noticed if their stomach and/or waist permanently expands at all, or is that just a matter of eating slower and making more calorie dense choices? Also, I know that all muscles must grow together but is there a way to help parts grow a little faster compared to others. I feel that my arms/shoulders are lacking compared to my torso.

Scott Kustes
09-09-2008, 05:53 PM
No issues with stomach/waist expansion. My waist is smaller than previously, now about a 30-31"...unfortunately my thighs demand a 32" waist of the baggiest jeans available just to look like I didn't paint them on.

I'm guessing no other than targetting those muscles. Do compound exercises and your body will grow muscles in the right proportions.

John Haydon Boatner
09-09-2008, 06:27 PM
Do ratios matter a ton when trying to gain? On workout days I eat more calories overall and today id say i got about 80g fat, and 200g protein and carbs each (most of the carbs post workout and 1-2 hours after). On non training days Ill end up eating less and I definitely eat a great majority in the forms of fat and protein (some carbs from veggies and sometimes fruit). Too much fat on workout days? I like the fat, makes everything good and dense so less stuffing lol.

John Haydon Boatner
09-09-2008, 06:41 PM
For ref

pre-wo = caffiene and some bcaa's

PWO = blue berries, oatmeal, whole milk, whey, ezekiel cereal, honey, milled flaxseed

later = sweet potatoe, lil olive oil, some walnuts, tuna, 2 large eggs

before bed = mix of cottage/cream/ricotta cheese (tastes like cheescake), lil bit of walnut oil and casein powder (tastes like desert lol)

every or every other week I definitely have some 20th century food on training days :) (ice cream/pizza/calzones/wings/ribs/fried things/cakes/pies/the list goes on....oh and not everything at once lol ill pick one or two things...you get the idea) and on off days that coincide with the weekend I have some beers one or two nights (normally one night and im not a heavy drinker, average 4-6 drinks if that due to being a light weight lol)


Off days = any of the following : salmon, rib eye, top srloin, tuna, eggs, chicken (grilled or baked), olive oil, walnut oil, every kind of nut butter and nut, veggies, some fruit here and there, some dairy (usually lower or none on non lifting days), sometimes some casein powder if i didnt get enough protein and need to supplement. generally low carb/med-high fat, med-high protein. As natural as possible.

Allen Yeh
09-10-2008, 05:36 AM
Do ratios matter a ton when trying to gain? On workout days I eat more calories overall and today id say i got about 80g fat, and 200g protein and carbs each (most of the carbs post workout and 1-2 hours after). On non training days Ill end up eating less and I definitely eat a great majority in the forms of fat and protein (some carbs from veggies and sometimes fruit). Too much fat on workout days? I like the fat, makes everything good and dense so less stuffing lol.

If you are trying to gain weight, why are you altering your calories from workout days to non workout days?

John Haydon Boatner
09-10-2008, 06:52 AM
I was under the impression you lowered cals on off days so on those days you did some fat burning and on training days you used the pwo response to gain some lean mass. So should I just keep cals the same on both??

Mike ODonnell
09-10-2008, 08:36 AM
So should I just keep cals the same on both??

You will do better to always have a good amount of calories on off days...mostly protein and fat...and then pwo load carbs 1-2x a week if you want to gain size. Eating the same everyday allows for no enhanced glycogen loading or adaption from the body.....as it dislikes routine. The amount of calories varies from person and activity level. When in doubt....eat more if you are not seeing results. Protein is the most important macronutrient on off days.....carbs on workout days (pwo).

It will all be in my next diet book "Guinness and Pizza diet" (as that is my fav pwo feeding frenzy)

Steven Low
09-10-2008, 09:12 AM
Rest days are when your muscles are growing... that's when you need the extra calories to fuel growth...

That and what Mike said.

Liam Dougherty Springer
09-10-2008, 02:19 PM
I was under the impression you lowered cals on off days so on those days you did some fat burning and on training days you used the pwo response to gain some lean mass. So should I just keep cals the same on both??

I agree with everything being said as the advice of these men has been so influintial to my own diet and exercise planning. However I have used the exact aproach you are using John to maximize strength gain and slight muscle generation to maintain weight while experiencing fairly rapid fat loss. I have been wanting to get real lean before the weight gain period I am about to enter in which I will not be worrying about the fat gain which will naturaly accompany an intesive bulking phase.

That being said I have been going into a calorie deficit fairly regularly and if I am not carefull will skirt along the edges of over training. If I just wanted pure growth I would not adjust the caloric intake day to day however I would still load a large potion of my calories and carbs in particular into the first two hours after my WO then taper off eating smaller and smaller meals (by no means small meals however) composed of more and more fat by ratio and less and less carbs (from sources which become less and less dense) before entering into my pre WO fast. Also if I understand corectly Eggs are a great last meal as the protein has a sort of "slow release" effect which will contribute to continuing muscle growth into the fasting window.


thats what I am planning on as a theory but in practice I always keep things fairly variable in some manner while keeping my goals in mind durring the adjustments.:D

Great egg salad is 6 Omega 3 eggs 2+ slices thick cut bacon 1 Avocado 2 tbsp. Olive oil Mayo and a little dijon to taste with black pepper, paprika and tumeric. Great on cellery or add chopped cellery and wrap in lettuce leaves.

John Haydon Boatner
09-10-2008, 03:01 PM
I dont eat the same everyday that was just what I ate yesterday on a owrkout day. I lift 3-4 times a week and thought you should always carb load/have a carb heavier meal after a weight workout and save the lower carb ays for ays you dont lift and only do metconn or some cardio type stuff.

John Haydon Boatner
09-10-2008, 03:03 PM
Liam, I guess I shouldnt be doing it my way then lol, I am 125 and have barely any fat on me lol. I guess from now on I will just eat the same amount everyday until I get to where I want to be.