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Gavin Harrison
09-23-2008, 09:51 PM
Abstract (aka executive summary):

HST claims to be the most efficient way to build muscular size, and even fast twitch muscular size. Would it then be most efficient, strength being the ultimate goal, to do a period of muscular hypertrophy specific training followed by improving the efficiency of the newly gained fast twitch size by doing ME/DE work while maintaining the size, as opposed to doing strength work with size as a correlate goal (a la SS).

Background:

I've been reading about Hypertrophy Specific Training (HST) the last couple days, and a few other related resources. I'm a pretty unconditioned athlete in all regards, I started lifting about 2.5 years ago on and off because my school schedule, 6 months class/6 months full time job, now full time school for the last two years. Basically, on while working I'd have lots of free time and extra energy from sitting at a desk all day, so I'd lift after work. I've done a SS cycle before going back to school for the last 6 months, without the milk, and my schedule lightened up this term so I was planning on doing it again with the milk. It worked pretty well for me without the milk, and was hoping to gain a lot of weight and strength with it (height: 6' weight: ~160 goal: 180-200).

The theoretical question(!):

I know SS works, however, at 6' and 160 lbs, I really need to gain weight, and that's what SS+Milk is for. However, according to HST lore, it's the best/fastest way to gain muscular size, and according to this (wfs) (http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/hst-07.htm) (same author), fast twitch hypertrophy. The method follows a similar pattern as SS, progressive loading, etc, but is geared towards maximizing muscular hypertrophy. People have said decent strength gains have accompanied their size, even though it's not meant for it.

The question is then, if HST is the most efficient way to put on fast twitch muscle mass, isn't gaining strength then a matter of CNS training? Would it be a more efficient path to strength to first gain as much muscle mass / cross sectional area followed by a period of CNS efficiency training (ME/DE) and hypertrophy maintenance?

It seems as though, in theory, the fast twitch muscle area would be there at the end of the shame(less/ful?) hypertrophy phase, and you'd probably be what people (read: me/I) say about bodybuilders, that they aren't nearly as strong as they look. But if you then took the time (unlike bodybuilders) to actually make your new found muscle efficient, then you may progress much faster than a skinny kid trying to gain strength primarily and size secondarily, as is the goal of SS.

Note: Of course, I'm assuming you would ditch the isolation movements HST promotes and just do a full body compound routine, similar to a compacted SS routine.

ps, sorry for the length.

... Thoughts?

Mike ODonnell
09-24-2008, 06:45 AM
The question is then, if HST is the most efficient way to put on fast twitch muscle mass, isn't gaining strength then a matter of CNS training? Would it be a more efficient path to strength to first gain as much muscle mass / cross sectional area followed by a period of CNS efficiency training (ME/DE) and hypertrophy maintenance?

In Theory if you eat enough or the correct loading way with carbs....as the 2x10 full body cycle is more glycogen draining and reloading than muscle tearing. Yes strength is also about CNS effeciency as well.

Steven Low
09-24-2008, 07:35 AM
If you wanted an excuse to do HST you don't need one. Just go for it. But IMO you'd be better off on focusing on strength and eating for the muscle mass.

As far as the "gain muscle" -> "train muscle/CNS" approach.. no, it's slower. In that time you could've probably put an extra 30-50 lbs on your big lifts (well, unless you're pretty advanced already) which is a much greater stimulus muscle mass than doing a hypertrophy specific program...

By the way, what are your lifting numbers?

Gavin Harrison
09-24-2008, 08:10 AM
By the way, what are your lifting numbers?

Not great, like I said, 6' 160lbs, and only ever had two six month periods of consistent lifting/eating since I started lifting 2.5 years ago... and I've been off for ~6 months. Anyway, last time I'd checked was (all weight in pounds):

BS: 205x5, ~235x1
DL: 265x5
BP: 155x5, 165x1
Press: 95x5
Clean: 135-140x5 (don't remember)
Snatch: 100x1

Thanks for the responses MOD & Steve, I always forget about glycogen depletion...
Steve, I agree with you, for me where my goals are strength first with size being a correlate to help improve the strength gains... and I have no reason to pack on size for size, no sports.

Dave Van Skike
09-24-2008, 12:18 PM
Gavin, If you're intersted in a totally different perspective on hypertrophy specific training, google doggcrapp. You can get started here...http://dc-training.blogspot.com/.

DC is a BB trainer who works with BB athletes, some supplementing,some not. his whole philosophy on growing big centers onf lifting more weight adn using time under tension as a guiding principle. He's got a pretty sorted out methodolgoy that appearts to yield results. I'm not suggesting you become a bodybuilder but the perspective is useful. There are more than a few PL/strongman guys who use his approach to pretty impressive ends.