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Dave Van Skike
10-01-2008, 06:32 PM
This is how Leo does it.

Front squat 10x3
20/3
60/3
90/3
110/3
125/3 (275) pr
90/3 x5 sets

Seems like a really smart way to get that volume adn intensity. I've always done it as sets across, thus requireing a lower percentage. How do other folks do it?

Justin Fricke
10-01-2008, 06:44 PM
Seems like a good plan---i cant argue his stuff everything seems to be darn good. i take that is all KGs and not %'s.
I have recently been doing the perscribed WOD of CA but i add a few sets to mon and wed because i normaly cant do Sat. Lift TO many routines to list i like the Russian Squat and if you havent done a linear programin a while then i SS protocal can do well-i added about 40 lbs to my 1rm

What is the thought of Dropping back to 90?

Jon Sikes
10-01-2008, 06:45 PM
Dan John has an article about several 5x5 approaches:

http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/18827/

You could certainly apply those methods to 10x3.

Greg Everett
10-01-2008, 07:17 PM
We do 10x3 as sets across - I like this MUCH better than 5x5. It's like 20 rep squats in the sense that you're always amazed at how heavy you can stay for 10 sets as long as the reps are low - it's a fully full-on ass kicker, but it will make you stronger than shit.

Jacob Rowell
10-01-2008, 07:25 PM
I can vouch for the "stronger than shit" aspect of 10 sets of 3 across.

I did this for the mass gain program, 2 months ago, I barely put up 350, and 365 flew up a week ago. The last time I did the squat workout was at 315.

I ain't much of a squatter either.

Kevin Perry
10-01-2008, 08:01 PM
What are the rest periods usually like for set accross like that?

Greg Everett
10-01-2008, 08:08 PM
pretty much as long as you need

Dave Van Skike
10-01-2008, 09:08 PM
thanks for the responses.

Greg, what's the frequency on that? 2 days after olympic lifting or more frequent? what kind of percentages with your advanced athletes versus less experienced?

Jacob Rowell
10-01-2008, 10:02 PM
I'll speak from my own experience, I liked 'em quite a bit.


I found that they weren't producing a lot of fatigue after the first week. I got up to 90%. I also took am extremely large amount of rest - one, I was in the middle of running workouts, and two, I needed it. Shit got hard, but never unmanageable.

Dave Van Skike
10-02-2008, 10:38 AM
I'll speak from my own experience, I liked 'em quite a bit.


I found that they weren't producing a lot of fatigue after the first week. I got up to 90%. I also took am extremely large amount of rest - one, I was in the middle of running workouts, and two, I needed it. Shit got hard, but never unmanageable.

90%?? for 30 reps total? yikes. If I get over 90% in a squatting movement for more than 10 reps in an entire workout I'm semi ruined.

Jacob Rowell
10-02-2008, 11:05 AM
i could attribute it to me having a serious sticking point in my back squat, so maybe my 1RM wasn't very telling. Also, by the time I got up to 90%, I had been on a linear progression with the 10 sets o 3 squats for some 6 or 7 weeks, so it was high time to test my new 1RM. And I gained about 15# in the span of 6 weeks.

But in general, I was quite surprised by the reps I could put up at the intensity.

Steven Low
10-02-2008, 11:09 AM
90%?? for 30 reps total? yikes. If I get over 90% in a squatting movement for more than 10 reps in an entire workout I'm semi ruined.

Well, you're also putting up the freakin' heavy weights. It's easier to do when you're in the intermediate and maybe advanced range (or below 400-500 lbs).


Jacob: probably some CNS adaptations in there as well.


I like 10x3 across as well. But most of the time it ends up being 6-8 sets of 3 instead or so because of lack of time.

Dave Van Skike
10-02-2008, 11:18 AM
10 is a lot of sets, I honestly lose track after 8 and I'llbet I've left doing anywhere between 8-12. The thing I struck me about Leo's appraoch is that it's a lot like a ME day in a lot of other templates. work up to a max effort triple (around 90%) in a main movement and then get some volume in with an accessory movement. the way he's doing it you're just using the same movement for both.

John Kaupp
10-02-2008, 06:38 PM
I like doing 10x3, 8x2, 6x1, stuff like that with the rest times cut down in between for mass and strength gain. Used them different ways. 10x3 with all sets at the same weight with as long a rest as needed. Have done a modified Bear routine where you try and get up to a heavy set of 3 (~90%) within the first three or four sets and then drop the weight off from there with less than a minute rest in between. I find I squat better when doing routines like these, because the certain rest time makes me focus more and keeps my mind on squatting because there isn't much time to do anything else than change weights and try and catch your breath.

Dave Van Skike
10-07-2008, 05:47 PM
Have been lifting on a couple off days with a woman at work who is trying to drive her Crossfit total up to 275k. we started doing 10x3 the way Leo does it last week, she's already up 5 kilos. which sucks because i usually try to press the same weights for 5 that she squats for 3 and now she's crushing me...

Joe Hart
10-07-2008, 06:28 PM
There is a 10x3 squat workout on Coach Burgener's site along with the Hatch squat program. Both are good. I don't do 10x3 anymore because I want to try and keep the work out somewhat short. I would rest 2 min between sets.

Allen Yeh
10-10-2008, 07:11 PM
What else did everyone do on the days they did front squats? It seems like 10 x 3 would be really time consuming expecially if you are going for 85% acros the board?

My FS numbers are lacking and I need to kick my ass a bit.

Scott Kustes
10-11-2008, 07:45 AM
Just want to make sure I'm understanding right as this sounds like what I'm looking for....my goal right now is to get stronger than shit. I'd be doing 10 sets of 3 at a weight about 85-90% of my max or building up to a single set of 3? I assume "10 sets of 3 across" means keeping the weight the same.

Dave Van Skike
10-11-2008, 07:54 AM
Just want to make sure I'm understanding right as this sounds like what I'm looking for....my goal right now is to get stronger than shit. I'd be doing 10 sets of 3 at a weight about 85-90% of my max or building up to a single set of 3? I assume "10 sets of 3 across" means keeping the weight the same.

Sound like 10x3, sets across is what Greg recommends,. the weights are high so 85-90 is probably right for a lot of people.

What I saw Leo doing and have been working with someone doing is, take 3-5 sets to work up to a big triple, 90% plus if possible, then drop the weights down to around 80-85% and bang out 5 more sets of three, keeping the rest periods low. this is probably not as effective as 10x3 across but it seems to work pretty well and is time efficient.

Leo Soubbotine
10-11-2008, 10:01 AM
"and is time efficient." Exactly - since we're a CF gym and run classes on the hour it would take a bit too long with real heavy 10x3.

Dave Van Skike
10-11-2008, 10:29 AM
"and is time efficient." Exactly - since we're a CF gym and run classes on the hour it would take a bit too long with real heavy 10x3.


Another good thing is that it seems to really prime people for bigger workloads. Like I mentioned above, one of my training partners is trying to push her squat up but she's really a pretty technically sound lifter (Oly lifter in college) who has never really had to push herself in the squat, 10x3 right out of the box at weights that are challenging caused her to stall, as did 5x5...we switched to this and her lifts started taking off. I bet another couple weeks of this and she'll be ready for straight 10x3 by just adding a few more top sets on the front end or lowering the load for the final 5 sets a little less.

Jacob Rowell
10-11-2008, 10:31 AM
Leo - I never thought about doing something like this in the context of a CF class. I'll have to try that. We're gearing up for a more strength-oriented winter, should fit in nicely.

Justin Algera
10-11-2008, 04:59 PM
So is this done once a week? I looked at the program on Coach B's site and it looks like its just done once a week, but wasn't sure.

Dave Van Skike
10-11-2008, 07:25 PM
we're hitting it twice a week.

Allen Yeh
10-12-2008, 03:31 PM
What else are you guys doing in those sessions? What about your other days?

Allen Yeh
10-12-2008, 03:39 PM
I was looking over Coach Burgners squatting spreadsheet and was curious what else you'd be doing for the 12 weeks? It seems lke just the 10x3 of back squats or front squats would take ~30 minutes alone. Are you limiting your heavy pulls and the other lifts during the entire 12 weeks? So you'd only be hitting light to medium weights on the snatch and C+J as well as technical work. Then using utilizing medium-medium heavy pulls on the other days?

Joe Hart
10-12-2008, 03:54 PM
When I did the Hatch squat program and push press and pull ups on squat days. I might have done some singles in clean or snatch but they were 80%. It did take awhile to do especially if you rested for atleast two minutes between sets. My squat went up 20KG from it though.

Dave Van Skike
10-12-2008, 03:59 PM
What else are you guys doing in those sessions? What about your other days?

I do 10x3 or 5,4,3,2,1 then 3x3 in the press, while she hits squat/press both days, and pulls on Saturdays, alternating pulls from the floor or RDL's.

My two other days are combo squat/pull and an event usually like tire or a pull intensive one, the other day is light/speed squats, 8x2 back or maybe 10x2 fronts and repetition pulls like RDL or clean high pulls.

Focus on pulls versus squats is determine mostly by the order we're doing them them in, I try to squat and pull on the same day, If it's a DL focus I'll do that first and at the highest loads, maybe working up to a max triple or double or even a 5, then the squat might be a zercher or box squat for sets of 5 or even 8.

Same with presses, if I feel like I need pullups or upper back work, I'll do those first, maybe even chest supported rows, then press. or vis versa.

I've been taking some down time recently so I'm tinkering a bit, trying to find time on the light squat day and the press day for moving event like farmers or yoke or whatever.

Allen Yeh
10-13-2008, 08:09 AM
I'm going to start the Coach Burgener's squat program today. It calls for 10 x 3 back squats today and 10 x 3 front squats on thursday. I'll figure out the ancillary stuff as I go along. Things I'd like to stick in there are technical stuff for warmups, then maybe some light/medium snatches and C+J's just to grease the technique groove. I'd definitely like to work the jerk portion as that has been limited by my arm in the past few months and it seems to be feeling better now.

List of things:
1. Coach Burgeners squat program
2. jerk improvement
3. maintain my running (which I've been slacking on BIG time)
4. technical work

Seems doable.

300 # FS here I come.

Scott Kustes
10-13-2008, 10:02 AM
Oh...my...gawd...that...hurt.

Allen Yeh
10-13-2008, 10:23 AM
Oh...my...gawd...that...hurt.

?? Err...elaborate?

Not what I wanted to read an hour before I'm doing something similiar.

Allen Yeh
10-13-2008, 03:26 PM
Oh...my...gawd...that...hurt.

Nevermind, I think my legs are broken, I did something similiar to what you did and geez. I took it as a bad sign as I was walking around the grocery store post workout and various parts of my legs would cramp a little.

I was going to do Coach B's template but decided with my week off from Nov. 1 to Nov 7 to do it like Leo did it the 10 x 3 with ramping to a heavy 3 for the first 5 sets then doing a medium heavy weight for the next 5 with only 1 minute rest between.

I'll be alternating back squats and front squats and then reevaluate after I get back on the week of the 8th.

Craig Loizides
10-13-2008, 06:20 PM
In the Mass (A)gain article (PM 41) it recommends starting at 75% and adding about 2% a week. Once I got above 90% I couldn't complete more than 5x3 so I switched to something like Leo's program. Even starting at 75% my legs hurt after the first workout.

Dan Heaney
10-21-2008, 10:57 AM
In the Mass (A)gain article (PM 41) it recommends starting at 75% and adding about 2% a week. Once I got above 90% I couldn't complete more than 5x3 so I switched to something like Leo's program. Even starting at 75% my legs hurt after the first workout.

How did you get over 90% if you increase 2-3% a week? I just started and will have to make 8-12lbs jumps which will add 50-60lbs to my starting weight. I may go with 3% for the first few weeks and then 2% as the loads increase. I'd be happy with 8 sets of 3 @ 88% though. How were your results from completing the program?

Week 1: 75%
Week 2: 77% - 80%
Week 3: 79% - 80%
Week 4: 81% - 83%
Week 5: Back off @ 85%
Week 6: 83% - 84%
Week 7: 85% - 86%
Week 8: 87% - 88%

Justin Algera
10-21-2008, 11:11 AM
Did my first set of these last week and it felt like death. Actually had a hard time sleeping because I couldnt get in a comfortable position in bed, lol... I started at 80% (1 rep max is 300lbs.) and will probably go up 2% this week. Luckily I started at Lost Battalion as well last week so I'm not lifting heavy at all there and strictly working on light weight, fixing some form issues and basically starting from scratch so recovery shouldnt be an issue.

Craig Loizides
10-21-2008, 08:33 PM
I didn't exactly follow the program, but I did 10x3 squats once a week. I started at 75% (max was 275) and added 5 pounds a week. The first 2 weeks were tough, the next 4 felt pretty easy, and then it started getting hard again.

Last few weeks:
245 - 10x3
250 - 8x3
255 - 5x3
260 - 3x3
265 - 3x3

I could probably continue the cycle for another couple weeks, but I have a couple races coming up so I'm going to ease up on the squats and come back to it over the winter.

Allen Yeh
10-22-2008, 04:10 AM
Did my first set of these last week and it felt like death. Actually had a hard time sleeping because I couldnt get in a comfortable position in bed, lol...

Ditto that.

Dan Heaney
10-22-2008, 04:39 AM
Did my first set of these last week and it felt like death. Actually had a hard time sleeping because I couldnt get in a comfortable position in bed, lol... I started at 80% (1 rep max is 300lbs.) and will probably go up 2% this week. Luckily I started at Lost Battalion as well last week so I'm not lifting heavy at all there and strictly working on light weight, fixing some form issues and basically starting from scratch so recovery shouldnt be an issue.

Ditto that.

Mon was my first day. I am going to stick to the Rx. I thought about starting higher but as is, I'm going to end up @ 355-360 for 10 x 3. Starting higher would have put me up to where I'm not sure I could complete the sets.

Dan Heaney
11-03-2008, 03:05 PM
Just finished week 3 and these are starting to suck. First 6-7 sets were ok but the last 3-4 were rough. Not looking forward to next week.