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Chris H Laing
10-06-2008, 05:28 PM
I am currently putting together a gymnastics workout using the rings.

The goals for the workout are to obtain:
5 sec front lever
5 sec back lever
work on the iron cross (this is an extreme long term goal so no specifics given for timed holds at the moment...I just wanna make progress with the iron cross strength)

Obviously, it is a ring strength routine I am interested in. I have no room to learn swings and dismounts, nor do I particularly care to as I will never be competing in gymnastics.

I plan on using static holds in addition to dynamic exercises like cranks, reverse cranks, ice cream makers, etc. but I do not know many dynamic exercises that can be used to work towards my goals.

If anyone knows any exercises I could use, or has any ideas how to program this workout, or could supply an example template of how the workout would be structured, it would be greatly appreciated. :D

Steven Low
10-06-2008, 06:00 PM
Back lever, front lever and cross ALL correlate well so work on any will help you get there.

Read through Coach Sommer's list of stuff especially the couple on basic strength routines and see if it's something you wanna work on like that.
http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=892

For front lever the BEST exercise is definitely inverted hang slow eccentric to hang taking approximately 7-10s in maybe a set of 3x3 or so for ~50-60 total seconds. This is VERY hard, but you'll see noticable progress within a couple days and lots of progress within a month.

As far as a routine I would suggest Coach Sommer's basic rings strength. Otherwise, for the rest of the workout you can do piecemeal work like the above exercise.

Any Qs feel free to ask.


P.S. It's nice to go and post on like X many different forums. BUT don't get yourself into the rut of paralysis from too much analysis. At this point you should taking suggestions and DOING. Don't overthink it.

Chris H Laing
10-07-2008, 09:59 AM
For front lever the BEST exercise is definitely inverted hang slow eccentric to hang taking approximately 7-10s in maybe a set of 3x3 or so for ~50-60 total seconds.

What if I cant hold a full front lever at all at the moment? Should I do these in the progression of the front lever that I am on (e.g. inverted hang in a tuck and slowly lower)? Or should I just go as slow as I can keeping a straight body?

As far as a routine I would suggest Coach Sommer's basic rings strength. Otherwise, for the rest of the workout you can do piecemeal work like the above exercise.

Any Qs feel free to ask.

Here come the Q's :p . I was thinking of doing all the individual work first, and then hitting a rings routine that involved all the elements I worked on. Something like:
Slow inverted hang to front lever
slow inverted hang to back lever??? (would this be effective?)
cranks/reverse cranks
maybe some cross pullouts or something
any other exercises
finish with sommer's ring routine #1 until I get it solid, then move to number 2 and 3

Would this be good in this order, or should I do the routine a couple times first and then move to the assistance exercises?

P.S. It's nice to go and post on like X many different forums. BUT don't get yourself into the rut of paralysis from too much analysis. At this point you should taking suggestions and DOING. Don't overthink it.

Are you psychic or something... :D Or does this mean you're checking out the CF boards again??? :eek: but, sadly, it's true that this happens to me a lot...but I'm pretty set on the schedule I've got set up now, and am definitely gunna stick to it for a while. Come to think of it, thats probably what I like best about crossfit, they tell you what to do, when, and how much. That, to me, is so much easier than designing your own plan.

Steven Low
10-07-2008, 11:23 AM
What if I cant hold a full front lever at all at the moment? Should I do these in the progression of the front lever that I am on (e.g. inverted hang in a tuck and slowly lower)? Or should I just go as slow as I can keeping a straight body?

Yes sir. Generally, use the progression that is one above your current level. So if you can hold an adv. tuck then do straddle for this progression.

Here come the Q's :p . I was thinking of doing all the individual work first, and then hitting a rings routine that involved all the elements I worked on. Something like:
Slow inverted hang to front lever
slow inverted hang to back lever??? (would this be effective?)
cranks/reverse cranks
maybe some cross pullouts or something
any other exercises
finish with sommer's ring routine #1 until I get it solid, then move to number 2 and 3

Would this be good in this order, or should I do the routine a couple times first and then move to the assistance exercises?

~Skill work first (any type of handstand, L-sit, shoulder stand, whatever non-taxing skill work you want to do.

~Strength/power next. I would advise doing them in this order -- cross, cranks, front lever, back lever.

What you have right now is ALL pulling. Cross, cranks, front lever and back lever are all pulling work. You need to add in some pushing. It's waaaaaaay too much to do all of that.

2-3 exercises (probably 1-2 with the routine) are MORE than enough IF you're training 4-5x a week.

~Conditioning if you wanted to do any -- metcon/tabata/HIIT/circuits/etc.

~Static flexibility

Are you psychic or something... :D Or does this mean you're checking out the CF boards again??? :eek: but, sadly, it's true that this happens to me a lot...but I'm pretty set on the schedule I've got set up now, and am definitely gunna stick to it for a while. Come to think of it, thats probably what I like best about crossfit, they tell you what to do, when, and how much. That, to me, is so much easier than designing your own plan.

I still check the boards occasionally.. and make fun of stupid questions to people I still talk with. I just don't post. But you did say you were crossposting once so I figured that you would be anyway (even if I didn't check).

Also, once you figure out your goals... CF may not be the best for you. But if that's what you enjoy hey go for it.

Chris H Laing
10-07-2008, 12:11 PM
~Skill work first (any type of handstand, L-sit, shoulder stand, whatever non-taxing skill work you want to do.

I am actually planning on doing handstand skill work as part of my warm up for every workout I do, working towards a consistent 10 sec free standing.


What you have right now is ALL pulling. Cross, cranks, front lever and back lever are all pulling work. You need to add in some pushing. It's waaaaaaay too much to do all of that.

Crap... What other pushes are their on the rings for gymnastics besides HSPU and planche, as I am not at a level where I can do either on the rings (can't even do a full rom HSPU on the floor)

2-3 exercises (probably 1-2 with the routine) are MORE than enough IF you're training 4-5x a week.

I would only be doing this rings workout once a week, so 3 exercises it is. Also I was thinking about taking the routine off the end and instead doing the 50% max hold for reps up to 60 sec for the front/back lever...and I guess a planche progression on the rings, or maybe just a support hold since I dont think I have the strength for a tuck planche on the rings.
If it makes a difference as to how many exercises I should do I do not have a ME upper body day, so this ring workout is acting as the ME upper body, but will occasionally be switched out for weighted ring dips/pull-ups.

~Conditioning if you wanted to do any -- metcon/tabata/HIIT/circuits/etc.

~Static flexibility

I will be doing crossfit two days a week on my schedule to cover conditioning, and I will have either a short stretch or foam rolling session after every workout

I still check the boards occasionally.. and make fun of stupid questions to people I still talk with. I just don't post. But you did say you were crossposting once so I figured that you would be anyway (even if I didn't check).

Then you've noticed all the people who constantly say "too bad Steven isn't on the forums anymore...he has great advice" :D

Also, once you figure out your goals... CF may not be the best for you. But if that's what you enjoy hey go for it.

I'm starting to find that this is true, but I still like the way a good, grueling metcon feels, which is why I'm still including them in my program. But now I am becoming more focuses on strength and gymnastics, and would eventually like to get into Oly lifting.

My basic schedule would be a 3-1-2-1:
Gymnastics - Lower body ME - CF - rest - Total body ME - CF - rest
The gymnastics is what I' m trying to figure out now.
The Lower body ME is alternating back squats and front squats on changing rep patterns of 5x5,5x3,5x1 or working up to a 1rm
Total body ME is deadlifts and power cleans, alternating and on the same rep scheme as the Lower body ME.
For crossfit I will be going to crossfit fairfax, my local afiliate, so i will be somewhat following their programming. On days when I would go to workout there and they have a ME scheduled, I would do a girl or hero that I haven't done in a while.

...and sorry for the longest post ever written...

Steven Low
10-07-2008, 12:43 PM
I am actually planning on doing handstand skill work as part of my warm up for every workout I do, working towards a consistent 10 sec free standing.

Good.

Crap... What other pushes are their on the rings for gymnastics besides HSPU and planche, as I am not at a level where I can do either on the rings (can't even do a full rom HSPU on the floor)

Rings dips and pushups, negative HSPUs, planche progression work and pushups, bench press, overhead press, etc. There's lots of stuff.

I would only be doing this rings workout once a week, so 3 exercises it is. Also I was thinking about taking the routine off the end and instead doing the 50% max hold for reps up to 60 sec for the front/back lever...and I guess a planche progression on the rings, or maybe just a support hold since I dont think I have the strength for a tuck planche on the rings.

If it makes a difference as to how many exercises I should do I do not have a ME upper body day, so this ring workout is acting as the ME upper body, but will occasionally be switched out for weighted ring dips/pull-ups.

Why only once a week? To progress you NEED to do work at least 2-3x a week minimum. For rings you should be at least getting on them 5-6x a week if not just do to some support holds, L-sits, inverted hangs, skin the cats (all skill work by the way).

I will be doing crossfit two days a week on my schedule to cover conditioning, and I will have either a short stretch or foam rolling session after every workout

Good.. can be added after strength session so you don't have to waste a separate day on it. Or it can be its own day. Your choice.

Then you've noticed all the people who constantly say "too bad Steven isn't on the forums anymore...he has great advice" :D

Yep.. but it's not like I care about praise or accolades or anything. That's not why I help people.

I'm starting to find that this is true, but I still like the way a good, grueling metcon feels, which is why I'm still including them in my program. But now I am becoming more focuses on strength and gymnastics, and would eventually like to get into Oly lifting.

My basic schedule would be a 3-1-2-1:
Gymnastics - Lower body ME - CF - rest - Total body ME - CF - rest
The gymnastics is what I' m trying to figure out now.
The Lower body ME is alternating back squats and front squats on changing rep patterns of 5x5,5x3,5x1 or working up to a 1rm
Total body ME is deadlifts and power cleans, alternating and on the same rep scheme as the Lower body ME.
For crossfit I will be going to crossfit fairfax, my local afiliate, so i will be somewhat following their programming. On days when I would go to workout there and they have a ME scheduled, I would do a girl or hero that I haven't done in a while.

...and sorry for the longest post ever written...

Hmm, I could significantly tweak ths.. then again depends on your goals.

IMO you should do something like:
full body, CF, full body, rest, full body, CF

Gymnastics skills ALL days ~15-30 mins (it does work as active recovery). Plus, it also acts as a nice warm up.

Pick your 2-3 exercises for the full body days. Might end up something like one day:
1. DL/powerclean, inverted eccentric to hang, cross pullouts, planche statics, HSPUs negatives

2. back squat/front squat, front lever statics (or back lever), cranks, planche progression pushups, weighted dips

3. pistols/sprints, etc.

It doesn't necessarily have to look anything like this but this is just to give you an idea. Unless you're severely time limited doing ME lower body and ME upper on their own days are going to be a HUGE waste of productive training time each week.

Ultimately, when programming something like this you'd want to see someone doing this 4-5x a week... because the progress will be immensely faster (I mean.. 3x a week is nice.. but 5x a week you get 2 extra sessions = much quicker gains). But that's your prerogative.

P.S. You going to the Mid Atlantic hopper this Sat? I'll be there (spectating) after I get off work and drive up.

Chris H Laing
10-07-2008, 02:08 PM
Rings dips and pushups, negative HSPUs, planche progression work and pushups, bench press, overhead press, etc. There's lots of stuff.

Haha I didn't even think of the simple stuff...ring dips...I need to think more before I ask questions. Maybe I could do some maltese holds with my feet on a box, and pseudo planche push ups for the chesticles.

Why only once a week? To progress you NEED to do work at least 2-3x a week minimum. For rings you should be at least getting on them 5-6x a week if not just do to some support holds, L-sits, inverted hangs, skin the cats (all skill work by the way).

I only planned to do the gymnastic workout once a week because I would have to do it at the gymnastic center which is a good 20 or 30 minutes from my house, so it would be hard for me to get there more than once a week because I have school til 2 and then work from 430 til 8 on most days. This is why I wanted to try to address all the gymnastic moves in one day.

Maybe I could do my static holds on ME days, just to keep the gymnastics elements going throughout the week...like rotate through front and back lever, planche and l-sit. I think that's a decent balance of push vs. pull.

Good.. can be added after strength session so you don't have to waste a separate day on it. Or it can be its own day. Your choice.

Again, I put the CF and ME days separately because, I would be driving another 30 min to get to the affiliate in my area, and there is a separate gym about 5 minutes from my school that I would go to after school and be done before going to work.

Yep.. but it's not like I care about praise or accolades or anything. That's not why I help people.

Not saying it is why...just that you helped a lot of people over there and people miss it, but they can always come here to get it i suppose :D

Hmm, I could significantly tweak ths.. then again depends on your goals.

IMO you should do something like:
full body, CF, full body, rest, full body, CF

Gymnastics skills ALL days ~15-30 mins (it does work as active recovery). Plus, it also acts as a nice warm up.

Pick your 2-3 exercises for the full body days. Might end up something like one day:
1. DL/powerclean, inverted eccentric to hang, cross pullouts, planche statics, HSPUs negatives

2. back squat/front squat, front lever statics (or back lever), cranks, planche progression pushups, weighted dips

3. pistols/sprints, etc.

I just realized that my whole schedule was based around school and work, which is why its hard to do something like deadlifts and inverted eccentric to hangs on the same day, because I would have to go to the gym to deadlift, and then drive all the way back home or to the gymnastics facility for the inverted eccentrics.

Basically I wanted a workout to do on the rings, that would be a complete upper body workout, as I do not have a ME day for upper body. I will probably still be able to mess around with the gymnastics stuff on rest days, but it will not be nearly as intense as its just for active rest.

Ultimately, when programming something like this you'd want to see someone doing this 4-5x a week... because the progress will be immensely faster (I mean.. 3x a week is nice.. but 5x a week you get 2 extra sessions = much quicker gains). But that's your prerogative.

I would love to have the time to get on the rings 4 or 5 times a week, but I don't think its in the cards for me right now. Maybe in the summer when I don't have school...or maybe if I get fired :p

P.S. You going to the Mid Atlantic hopper this Sat? I'll be there (spectating) after I get off work and drive up.

Nah...not this time :( ...but I need to get to a crossfit event soon and see how the hardcore people do it. Why aren't you competing? I'm sure you'd wreck any bodyweight movement biased workout.

Steven Low
10-08-2008, 07:08 AM
Haha I didn't even think of the simple stuff...ring dips...I need to think more before I ask questions. Maybe I could do some maltese holds with my feet on a box, and pseudo planche push ups for the chesticles.

Whatever floats your boat. Just make sure it's geared toward your overall goals. If you're confused if something is or isn't just ask.

I only planned to do the gymnastic workout once a week because I would have to do it at the gymnastic center which is a good 20 or 30 minutes from my house, so it would be hard for me to get there more than once a week because I have school til 2 and then work from 430 til 8 on most days. This is why I wanted to try to address all the gymnastic moves in one day.

[...]

Again, I put the CF and ME days separately because, I would be driving another 30 min to get to the affiliate in my area, and there is a separate gym about 5 minutes from my school that I would go to after school and be done before going to work.

[...]

I just realized that my whole schedule was based around school and work, which is why its hard to do something like deadlifts and inverted eccentric to hangs on the same day, because I would have to go to the gym to deadlift, and then drive all the way back home or to the gymnastics facility for the inverted eccentrics.

Basically I wanted a workout to do on the rings, that would be a complete upper body workout, as I do not have a ME day for upper body. I will probably still be able to mess around with the gymnastics stuff on rest days, but it will not be nearly as intense as its just for active rest.

Ah, so you don't have access to a pair of rings then constantly. That still would not preclude you from doing this stuff. I assume there is a bar at the place where you're using the weights (any pullup bar will do). You can still do front lever work and inverted hang eccentric to hang. I'm sure there's a dip bar where you can do planche work and weighted dips if need be.

At the gym when you have access to rings, you also have access to a floor where you can do sprints, pistols, etc. So mainly this day might be work on mostly bodyweight exercises for full body.

IMPROVISE with what you have available. ME upper/ME lower is pretty inefficient especially with only 2 exercises (if you're not doing anything else beyond skill work).

Maybe I could do my static holds on ME days, just to keep the gymnastics elements going throughout the week...like rotate through front and back lever, planche and l-sit. I think that's a decent balance of push vs. pull.

Too little frequency. Coach Sommer's planche/front lever article is meant to do planche and front lever BOTH 4 days a week.


I would love to have the time to get on the rings 4 or 5 times a week, but I don't think its in the cards for me right now. Maybe in the summer when I don't have school...or maybe if I get fired :p

Don't have like 50-70 bucks for a pair? Or a place to mount them (such as a tree)?

Nah...not this time :( ...but I need to get to a crossfit event soon and see how the hardcore people do it. Why aren't you competing? I'm sure you'd wreck any bodyweight movement biased workout.

Knee precludes me from doing airsquats at the moment although I am close to working then again.

Chris H Laing
10-08-2008, 03:44 PM
Whatever floats your boat. Just make sure it's geared toward your overall goals. If you're confused if something is or isn't just ask.

Thanks, I'll definitely be coming to you when I have questions regarding gymnastics and basically anything about training.

Ah, so you don't have access to a pair of rings then constantly. That still would not preclude you from doing this stuff. I assume there is a bar at the place where you're using the weights (any pullup bar will do). You can still do front lever work and inverted hang eccentric to hang. I'm sure there's a dip bar where you can do planche work and weighted dips if need be.

...

IMPROVISE with what you have available. ME upper/ME lower is pretty inefficient especially with only 2 exercises (if you're not doing anything else beyond skill work).

I do have access to rings, I just don't think I have a place to hang them that is high enough for some of the moves like invert eccentric to hang that use the full rom of the rings. Also surprisingly no dip bars...I guess I'll have to work up to a planche on the rings...or bring in my paralletes :p

Also I'm gunna try and work out some way that I could due your suggested full body-cf-full body schedule because I really like the idea of heavy deadlifts and cross pullouts on the same day.

For this would you suggest having a pool of movements for each day and cycling through them to keep up the variety?

Too little frequency. Coach Sommer's planche/front lever article is meant to do planche and front lever BOTH 4 days a week.

In addition to other front lever and planche training?

Don't have like 50-70 bucks for a pair? Or a place to mount them (such as a tree)?

I have the elite 2 rings, but not trees with branches low enough at my house. I'm currently trying to figure out a way to hang them from my deck :D . I'm thinking some eye bolts screwed into the wood and some caribiners.

Knee precludes me from doing airsquats at the moment although I am close to working then again.

That's a shame. What did you do to your knee? Also, are you a Terp, because I was thinking about applying to Maryland.

Steven Low
10-08-2008, 07:51 PM
Thanks, I'll definitely be coming to you when I have questions regarding gymnastics and basically anything about training.

I do have access to rings, I just don't think I have a place to hang them that is high enough for some of the moves like invert eccentric to hang that use the full rom of the rings. Also surprisingly no dip bars...I guess I'll have to work up to a planche on the rings...or bring in my paralletes :p

Also I'm gunna try and work out some way that I could due your suggested full body-cf-full body schedule because I really like the idea of heavy deadlifts and cross pullouts on the same day.

For this would you suggest having a pool of movements for each day and cycling through them to keep up the variety?

For invert eccentric it does not have to go all the way to hang. You can go to a little below front lever and still get most of the benefit. About 45 deg below the eccentric loses a lot of its tension so if you can do something to there it's fine.

Uhm, I prefer working a move at least 2-3x a week if possible. You can cycle them in, but ultimately you want to get stronger at a certain move because that's where the strength comes in. Neural learning (CNS) is a part of strength hence why you squat a lot on SS. If you want you can keep rotating stuff in but don't expect to see as good progress.

I prefer to work on 1-2 goals per pulling/pushing/posterior chain at a time. I find it's not too much and not too little.

In addition to other front lever and planche training?

Yes. If you're gonna do the pushups and pullups for planche and front lever then I'd suggest cutting down the static time some (to maybe like 20-30s).. but otherwise yes. High frequency.

I have the elite 2 rings, but not trees with branches low enough at my house. I'm currently trying to figure out a way to hang them from my deck :D . I'm thinking some eye bolts screwed into the wood and some caribiners.

Yeah, find somewhere fast.

That's a shame. What did you do to your knee? Also, are you a Terp, because I was thinking about applying to Maryland.

Not gonna talk about my knee AGAIN; it's in my log if you wanna look it up.

Already graduated from Maryland, but I do go down and help out with Gymkana a couple days a week.

Chris H Laing
10-09-2008, 03:10 AM
Thanks Steven, I think I have about everything I need to set up my new schedule.

One more question though...


Pick your 2-3 exercises for the full body days. Might end up something like one day:
1. DL/powerclean, inverted eccentric to hang, cross pullouts, planche statics, HSPUs negatives

2. back squat/front squat, front lever statics (or back lever), cranks, planche progression pushups, weighted dips



You say pick two or three exercises for the full body days, but then give five, so should I be picking and choosing from these examples to what would best fit my goals? And should I do deadlifts before or after the gymnastic type stuff?

This is the last question I promise, so after this you don't have to deal with me for a while until I need some more help :D

Steven Low
10-09-2008, 11:26 AM
Thanks Steven, I think I have about everything I need to set up my new schedule.

One more question though...



You say pick two or three exercises for the full body days, but then give five, so should I be picking and choosing from these examples to what would best fit my goals? And should I do deadlifts before or after the gymnastic type stuff?

This is the last question I promise, so after this you don't have to deal with me for a while until I need some more help :D

~1-3 each for push, pull, posterior chain. Generally try to keep it around 4-6 or maybe 7 exercises. More is not always better.

If you decided to do like an A1/A2 structure you can run push/pull against each other to cut down on time. So for example, planche and front lever with 90s rest between each set instead of doing planche at all once and then front lever all at once with rests in between.

Chris H Laing
10-09-2008, 01:41 PM
One more question though...



I lied :p .

What kind of rep pattern would you suggest. Would the rep scheme you suggested in your article on developing the iron cross work for the majority of the exercises or would that be to much volume.

And could your plan of developing the iron cross work in the context of my schedule? Could I do cross pulls every full body day, with the rep and set advancement of the first phase of the iron cross training or would that burn me out?

And should the heavy barbell movement come before or after the gymnastics movements?

These are the actual last questions. :D No more from me for a while

Steven Low
10-09-2008, 07:39 PM
Start off with 3x5. SS rep scheme is fine.

Yes, iron cross can work in the schedule. It's a pull exercise.. so treat it as such. I'd start out with 3 days a week (initially 2 because you're gonna be really sore) for this.

As for prioritizing that's your choice. Whatever you work first will get better the fastest as your full energy will get devoted to it.

Chris H Laing
10-10-2008, 02:35 PM
Thanks for all the help Steven.

I'll let you know how it works out once I finish my SS cycle.

Steven Low
10-10-2008, 07:33 PM
No prob. I'm kinda curious to how you're gonna structure now. :p

George Mounce
10-10-2008, 07:44 PM
No prob. I'm kinda curious to how you're gonna structure now. :p

You and me both, I've been watching this thread with interest. :D

Chris H Laing
10-11-2008, 04:37 PM
No prob. I'm kinda curious to how you're gonna structure now. :p

I will be doing it something like this:

Full body - crossfit - fb - rest - fb - cf - r

For full body days, it will be a weightlifting movement (e.g. deadlift, back squat, power clean) followed by a gymnastic push (PPPU, HSPU) and a gymnastic pull (invert ecc. 2 hang, crank).

It can be either weightlifting, push, pull or weightlifting, pull, push, depending on the weightlifting movement. For exercises like the deadlift and power clean, that involve pulling, the gymnastic push would be performed as the second exercise, to give the pulling muscles some time to recharge before the gymnastic pulling exercise, the last exercise. For movements like back and front squats, the gymnastic pull will come before the gymnastic push.

Some other gymnastic moves I'm including are FL pullups, PL push ups, weighted pull ups and ring dips, and I'm gunna give maltese leans a try and see if I like them.

I'm still debating on whether or not to include cross pulls, because I feel that the cross pulls are the ultimate expression of pulling power and would help all my pulling exercises (front lever, muscle up, etc) but I'm not sure if it is worth the risk to my elbows and shoulders if I don't have proper form, and I feel like I should get more work done on the front lever, as it is my primary goal.

Everyday skill work will be done for 15 - 30 minutes at least. The skill focus will consist of support holds and false grip hangs to help solidify false grip and support strength, as well as some wrist and fingertip push ups to condition the wrists. Handstands are to be practiced every day, including back-to-wall, front-to-wall, free standing, and HS walking. L-sits and skin-the-cats are also done on skill days...mostly for fun :p

Coach Sommer's PL and FL progressions will be followed every Mon, Tues, Thurs, and Fri, but due to the amount of PL and FL work in the workouts, I will only be adding together my sets til 30 seconds, by using reps at 50% of 1rm hold. Every month or two, depending on how the position is developing, I will test my new 1rm hold.

On rest days, for active rest, I will be doing pistol work such as box pistols, doorway pistols, and holding the bottom pistol position, to familiarize myself with the movement as I cannot do pistols...YET.

Sorry that was so long, but that's like 99% of the structure I will be using. Sorry if its way more than you wanted to know :D

Also George, why is this your first time posting if you've been watching the thread, I probably could have used some of your insight.

Blair Lowe
10-11-2008, 08:16 PM
Sounds decent.

Are you doing isokinetic/dynamic pull/push in the same workout as the 30s statics?

Skip the back to wall HS and do free HS instead.

You are missing press HS.

Have you tested cross pulls and see how they have affected you? For now, you might want to do 2 sets as skill work and play but concentrate on lever and planche besides some dynamic work like 360 pulls ( straight body skin the cat through levers ) or swinging dips, etc.

I highly reccomend mastering the bottom of the pistol before really working towards the movement . Once you have the flexibility and balance down, it's very easy to build the strength. It's a matter of preventative and pre-conditioning in a sense. However, working the dynamic version with an assist is good to develop flexibility and balance and some strength as well.

Steven Low
10-11-2008, 08:35 PM
Looks good.

Blair made some good suggestions though with handstand presses... definitely try to get some of those in (use a wall). Other stuff he said is up to you.

Chris H Laing
10-12-2008, 05:27 AM
Are you doing isokinetic/dynamic pull/push in the same workout as the 30s statics?


Not really sure what you mean by this but the 30 sec statics are not part of a workout. They are just by themselves, probably later in the afternoon a couple hours after a workout.

Steven, any insight on whether or not iron cross training would be worth it for me? I looked at your log on powerathletes and noticed you often had to ice your elbows and do a lot of rotator cuff work. Was this a result of doing cross pulls a lot?

George Mounce
10-12-2008, 06:14 AM
Also George, why is this your first time posting if you've been watching the thread, I probably could have used some of your insight.

Because Steven is light-years ahead of me on any knowledge pertaining to gymnastics and the programming of such things. I also need to put in the hooks to support rings in my garage, just haven't got there yet.

For me I just add in one gymnastic movement to my warm-up and practice it. At first it was the handstand until I got it, now its levers. I don't think with my current gaining of weight (trying to get to 187), that I'll see the planche anytime soon. I do practice the progression, as the strength gains are effective either way.

Amazingly enough just doing HSPUs as part of my warm-up then on the last one doing a static hold of a free handstand was enough to develop my handstand.

For pistols, I took some plyo boxes that stack and did pistols down on each side, lowering them as I progressed, until now I can do one without even thinking. Pistols to me are a lot more technique than strength. I had more than enough strength, and none of the technique.

I used this website a lot to think about the technique: http://www.powerathletesmag.com/pages/pistols.htm

I can't answer for Steven, but anyone training at very high levels, no matter the sport, uses a lot of ice. When I played college hockey we were icing knees and jumping in the ice bath daily.

Steven Low
10-12-2008, 08:16 AM
Not really sure what you mean by this but the 30 sec statics are not part of a workout. They are just by themselves, probably later in the afternoon a couple hours after a workout.

Steven, any insight on whether or not iron cross training would be worth it for me? I looked at your log on powerathletes and noticed you often had to ice your elbows and do a lot of rotator cuff work. Was this a result of doing cross pulls a lot?
No. Initially (2-3 years ago when training the cross) it was because I lacked horizontal pulling and my routine was mostly pushing dominant. If you're going to do band assisted crosses you should be ok. However, I would advise you to take it slow regardless and listen to your body.

I would suggest adding an external rotator cuff exercise a couple times a week though.

If you want to try it then go for it. Try about 2-3 sessions; you'll learn how taxing it is on your body and if you're ready for it or not. If it's the case where you think its too much then stay away until you've been up a good conditioning level and stronger joints.

----------------------------------

Ice should be used regardless though. Despite studies that sometimes claim differently, ice does help recovery.. significantly.

Chris H Laing
10-12-2008, 10:26 AM
If you're going to do band assisted crosses you should be ok.

And if I was going to do cross pullouts on a box?

Steven Low
10-12-2008, 11:34 AM
And if I was going to do cross pullouts on a box?
Should be fine as well. Although from what I've found most people [inadvertently] tend to drift backwards which can be a bit riskier on the shoulders and not hit cross position as well.

Chadron Edwards
10-12-2008, 08:36 PM
I'm just going to ask this to keep the thread coherent, what external rotator cuff exercises would you recommend, Steven? (I've got some recurring pain from doing swings which I need to shore up.)

For me, Steven's box vs. band comment is spot-on in that I had a very hard time finding the right position using a box. In either case, if you decide to incorporate crosses, make sure to really focus on keeping the arm position correct before decreasing the amount of help. Like many lifting movements, it is very, very tempting to go heavy before you have the technique right, and bad habits are hard to fix.

Blair Lowe
10-12-2008, 11:19 PM
I had done all the typical rotator cuff exercises to no avail. However, I found muscle snatching ala Burgener WU ( though my snatch has become very muscle snatch-ish/power snatch like ) and cuban presses was good external rotator work. I've also seen something like a Cuban press that is done from a position like a Bent Over Row/Pendlay row. I think it was on T-Nation by Eric Cressey more than likely.

Chris H Laing
10-13-2008, 04:54 AM
Yea I dont think I'm gunna include cross work at the moment...my elbows are just too valuable. Maybe sometime in the future though, as an iron cross is something I really wants to achieve.

On another note, Steven, how did you go about achieving a OAC?

I went to the gym with my friend yesterday, so he could do his tricep extensions and what-not, and I got on the assisted pullup machine, and started playing with OAC. I can do one each arm with 40 lbs of assistance at a bodyweight of about 145, and 10 alternating with 70 lbs of assistance (half my bw).

Is this good in terms of OA pulling strength? If I put OAC's into the schedule we just put together would I be able to achieve it in a decent amount of time?

Steven Low
10-13-2008, 06:35 AM
First off, cuban press is an external rotation exercise.. and a fairly typical one at that. It is a similar movement to power snatch (although I would NOT do this unless you are proficient with snatching technique -- bad habits can easily develop).

Secondly, OAC I did negatives 4-5x a week for ~10-15 reps per arm a day (usually something like 5x3 with 7s negatives). Very, very fast gains but gotta be wary of overuse. I can post up my exact workouts if you want to see them. Had some pretty poor programming with everything else except the HSPUs and OAC work. 40 lbs isn't too bad.. but you'll find actually hanging on the bar is much different than having somewhere you can put your feet in an assist. You can probably make this up in about ~6 months or so though.

It will count as a pulling exercise BUT it will help out somewhat with front lever, back lever and cross if you decide to do that later which is nice.

Chris H Laing
10-13-2008, 06:02 PM
First, I just wanna say that you are amazingly strong Steven. I can't even do a slow controlled negative yet (played around today after my SS workout), while you can do the full OAC, and my biceps and the backs of my shoulders are sorer today than they've been in a while, just from messing around with the assisted OAC's yesterday.

On another note, how did you go about getting your first negative chin? Or did you have the strength from training the cross to do it pretty easily?

Steven Low
10-13-2008, 06:15 PM
When I first started I could do about 2-3 for 5s. Then I did assisteds with a finger or two for the rest of them. And yes, the strength was from the cross.

Here's my actual post on my experience last summer (summer 2007):


---------------------------------------------------------

The progress is fairly staggering to say the least, and the only weights I used were basically for lower body (deadlifts and one arm cleans), so every upper body workout was basically just bodyweight.

This is the first time I attempted a 5/2 schedule (Mon-Fri workouts with Sat-Sun rest) when I had previously been only doing 3 or 4 days a week most commonly M,W,F routine. I had the additional benefit of benchmarking my weighted pullups at the end of every week to see the progress I obtainted (no doubt they probably helped some though). Anyway, here's the results (keep in mind I am 5'8" 135 lbs.. probably a bit underweight):


~1 week DB cleans 80 -> 90
~3 weeks DL 4x3 245 lbs to 1x3 for 285 lbs
~4 weeks OAP negatives much stronger & can do with +10 lbs about the same as when started
~6 weeks rings HSPUs went from 5x5 to 1x15 which is a nice 10 rep increase (~2 reps/week).
~6 weeks weighted pullups from 4x3 50 lbs -> 6x3 55 lbs (previous PR 4x3 55 lbs) -> 4x3 70 lbs -> 6x3 75 lbs -> 4x3 85 lbs -> 4x3 90 lbs

Week 1

Mon:
rings HSPUs: 5x5
front lever (FL) eccentrics: 5x3 @ 5s lower per rep to hold
straddle FL pullups: 3x5

Tues:
rings HSPUs: 6x5
straddle FL pullups: 4x5

Wed:
rings HSPUs: 5x6
straddle FL pullups: 5x5

Thurs:
rings HSPUs: 5x6
straddle FL pullups: 5x5

Fri:
rings HSPUs: 5x6
OA DB cleans: 1x5 40 lbs, 1x5 55 lbs, 1x3 70 lbs, 1x3 80,85,90 lbs
weighted pullups: 1x5 25 lbs, 1x3 40 lbs, 4x3 50 lbs
ring flys: 5x5
ring pseudo PL pushups: 3x5
straddle FL pullups: 5x5

Week 2

Mon:
rings HSPUs: 5x7
FL negatives: 3x3 5s lower (inverted hang slow eccentric to front lever or hang)
straddle FL pullups: 3x5

Tues:
rings HSPUs: 5x8
OA rings rows: 3x5
straddle FL pullups: 3x5

Wed:
rings HSPUs: 5x8
OA rings rows: 3x5
straddle FL pullups: 3x5

Thurs:
rings HSPUs: 5x8
FL negatives: 3x3 5s each
straddle FL pullups: 3x5
OA rings rows: 2x5

Fri:
rings HSPUs: 6x8
deadlifts: 1x6 135 lbs, 5x5 225 lbs
weighted pullups: 1x5 25 lbs, 1x3 45 lbs, 6x3 55 lbs
straddle FL pullups: 3x5 +20 lbs

Week 3 - Notably, I started one arm chinup work this week.

Mon:
rings HSPUs: 5x9
OA pullups negatives: 5x2 5s per rep
OA ring rows: 3x5

Tues:
rings HSPUs: 5x9
OA pullups negatives: 3x3 5s per rep

Wed:
rings HSPUs: 3x9
OA pullups negatives: 4x3 5s per rep

Thurs:
rings HSPUs: 5x9
OA pullups negatives: 5x3 5s per rep
straddle FL pullups: 5x3 @ 45 deg

Fri:
rings HSPUs: 3x10
DL: 1x10 45 lbs, 1x5 135 lbs, 1x5 225 lbs, 1x3 235 lbs, 4x3 245 lbs
arched back extensions: 3x5
3 pullup negatives +100 lbs for 8s each
weighted pullups: 1x3 50 lbs, 1x3 65 lbs, 5x3 70 lbs (PR by 15 lbs)

Week 4

Mon:
rings HSPUs: 4x10
pullup negatives: 5x3 for 5s each rep
L-sit straddle press: 3x3
DL (home): 1x8 60 lbs, 1x3 160 lbs, 1x3 215 lbs, 2x3 245 lbs

Tues:
rings HSPUs: 1x10,11,11
straddle FL pullups: 3x3 @ 30 deg
OAP negs: 2x3

Wed:
rings HSPUs: 4x11
OAP negatives: 1x3 for 5s each rep
straddle FL pullups: 3x3 @ 40ish degrees
DL (home): 1x6 110 lbs, 1x5 160 lbs, 1x4 215 lbs, 6x3 225 lbs

Thurs:
rings HSPUs: 3x12
OAP negatives: 3x3 for 5s each rep
assisted OAP: 3x3

Fri:
rings HSPUs (full range): 1x8,9,9
DL: 1x5 135 lbs, 1x4 185 lbs, 3x5 235 lbs
3 pullup negatives +100 lbs for 8s each
weighted pullups: 1x3 60 lbs, 6x3 75 lbs (PR by 5 lbs)

Week 5

Mon:
rings HSPUs: 5x10
OAP negatives: 3x3 for 5s each rep
straddle FL pullups: 3x3 @ 45ish deg
DL (home): 1x5 110 lbs, 1x5 160 lbs, 1x4 215 lbs, 1x3 245 lbs, 2x3 260 lbs

Tues:
rings HSPUs: 2x12
OAP negatives: 1x2 +5 lbs, 5s lower
assisted OAP (ring finger): 4x3

Wed:
rings HSPUs: 3x12
OAP negatives: 2x3 @ 5s lower
assisted OAP (ring finger): 2x3
DL (home): 1x5 160 lbs, 1x5 215 lbs, 2x5 245 lbs

Thurs:
rings HSPUs: 2x13
OAP negatives: 1x3 @ 5s lower
assisted OAP (ring finger): 2x5

Fri:
rings HSPUs: 2x13, 1x12
DL: 1x5 135 lbs, 1x5 225 lbs, 1x3 255 lbs, 1x3 275 lbs (PR), 1x3 285 lbs (PR by 20 lbs)
3 pullup negatives +100 lbs for 5s each
weighted pullups: 1x3 70 lbs, 4x3 85 lbs (PR by 10 lbs)

Week 6

Mon:
rings HSPUs: 3x14
OAP negatives: 1x3 +21 lbs, 3x3 +15 lbs
DL (home): 1x5 160 lbs, 1x5 215 lbs, 2x5 260 lbs

Tues:
rings HSPUs: 1x15, 2x13
OAP negatives: 1x3 +10, +5, +0 lbs

Wed:
rings HSPUs: 1x15, 1x14
explosive pullups: 1x5
straddle FL pullups: 3x3 @ 30 degrees
pistols: 5x5 each leg

Thurs:
rings HSPUs: 1x15, 1x14
OAP negatives: 2x3
assisted OAP: 2x3

Fri:
rings HSPUs: 2x12
DL: 1x5 135 lbs, 1x5 235 lbs, 1x3 255 lbs, 1x3 275 lbs
2 pullup negatives +100 lbs for 5s each
weighted pullups: 1x3 75 lbs, 4x3 90 lbs (PR by 5 lbs)
pistols: 2x8

Basically what I noticed is that I was making personal records at the END of almost every week in weighted pullups work which is phenominal considering I had done 4 workouts in a row the day before that. I tested my 1 RM a couple months after this, and it was at 110 lbs for a single which is my current personal record (which I am working on busting now).

I didn't really do any isometric holds at the top although my program mainly consisted of negatives with some assisted concentrics. These (negatives) are VERY rough on the elbows so I would not suggest doing something with this high frequency at least unless your elbows are very strong. I had obtained the cross previously which puts a lot of stress on the elbows and had been sufficiently conditioned to elbow stress to allow me not to develop tendonitis during this time. Even so, the volume is kept very low per day to minimize excessive stress on the elbows.

Front lever progression pullups do help gain strength for weighted pullups although much slower as evidenced by the first two weeks of this program where I brought up my strength from 50 -> 55 lbs (even though I was fatigued by the end of the week). So these will definitely help as long as you're progressining with them, but the core of making weighted pullup gains definitely lies with one arm chinup/pullup work.

The one thing I noticed with DLs is that if you do them 3x a week you will burn out pretty quickly. I hit a big PR in my second week and then fizzled out in the third. If you are going to train with weights and do exercises like DL which have a very heavy CNS (central nervous system) component I would only suggest you do them 2x a week or less.

Chris H Laing
10-14-2008, 11:50 AM
When I first started I could do about 2-3 for 5s. Then I did assisteds with a finger or two for the rest of them. And yes, the strength was from the cross.

So would you suggest working towards the cross first and using that strength to obtain a OAC like you did, or would you advise working the OAC first and then using that strength to help with the iron cross? I guess I'm asking which would be better to use to condition my elbows and shoulders for the other and which one would be faster to build strength in to obtain.

The one thing I noticed with DLs is that if you do them 3x a week you will burn out pretty quickly. I hit a big PR in my second week and then fizzled out in the third. If you are going to train with weights and do exercises like DL which have a very heavy CNS (central nervous system) component I would only suggest you do them 2x a week or less.

I will not even being doing DLs twice a week on most weeks. I will be alternating between the DL and three other exercises on the ME/gymnastics days.

Steven Low
10-14-2008, 01:10 PM
Tricky question actually. To be honest I got OAC very quickly after cross. However, cross is tougher on the elbows (IMO) than OAC work and will take longer to develop. Jim (beastskills) for example has had OAC for a while and has still be struggling with the elbow stress and some of the strength aspect of the cross. Of course, I am also about 20-30 lbs lighter than he is which obviously makes a difference as well. Basically, pick which one you wanna do.

Yeah, don't do frequent DLs. That wasn't the point of my posting this (moreso for the OAC emphasis) anyway.. :p

Chris H Laing
10-14-2008, 01:35 PM
Haha, k, thanks. I'm gunna work on the OAC before the cross.

Would using the assisted pull up machine be a good way to work up to full negatives, or would you suggest I work on the negatives with a few finger assist?

Steven Low
10-14-2008, 07:43 PM
Work on negatives with as much assist as you need. This will encourage you to hopefully be harder on yourself than with the machine.

Use the machine to test your progress every week or so or something like that.

Chris H Laing
10-15-2008, 02:27 PM
Alright thanks. I'm gunna do them on rings because the pull up bar at my gym has no knurling or rubber grip things on it and gets very slippery when sweaty.

I've only got a couple months left on SS, and when I switch over to the "ME gymnastics CF hybrid" I'll post some stuff up here to let you know how its working out. :)

Chris H Laing
10-18-2008, 08:45 AM
Sorry Steven, but I have another question. First, check out the link below if you haven't already seen it (which you probably have) and specifically look at the part in the quote box.

http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=905

Would this be a good way to progress in the dynamic exercises such as invert ecc. 2 hang or maltese leans?

I am looking for a way to change up the rep schemes of the gymnastic movements in a similar way to how the weightlifting movements are cycled...essentially I still have not decided on a way to vary the intensity and volume of the gymnastics exercises and am wondering what the best way to do this is

Steven Low
10-18-2008, 10:56 AM
Depends on what you're doing.

~If it's something you can add weight then do that (weighted dips, chins, etc.).

~Eccentrics... go for 7-10 solid seconds (for all sets -- chances are you won't be able to do it solidly for everything). After this, increase the difficulty OR number of sets. If you're doing more than 5 or so especially with this exercise you need a harder variation such as moving from eccentric to isometrics or concentrics such as cranks.

~isometrics such as maltese leans move by increasing the time some into concentric coupled movements or a harder progression.

~dynamic movements... move up a progression as soon as possible. If at the end of a progression, move up to a harder exercise. There's always harder exercises...


When in doubt increase the progression difficulty or choose a harder exercise. Increasing the quality of the sets or total sets is generally the best. You can vary the rep range if you want.. but the other options are generally better.

Chris H Laing
10-18-2008, 11:24 AM
So for the invert ecc. lets say I'm working 3x3. I should go until I can do all 3 reps in all 3 sets at a full FL, and then work towards holding them for 7-10 sec. After reaching this point I should try to stop myself in a FL on the way down, and when I can do that and hold the front lever for a couple seconds, I should move onto something harder, like cranks?

As for the maltese leans, I'm still a little iffy. How would a set of 3x3 work? Would you lower into the position and hold for a while, then press up, then lower, hold, press up, etc? I feel like this exercise is gunna be hard enough on it's own that I won't be needed any advanced progressions for a while, aside from moving my legs farther off the box.

Everything else I get, thanks

Steven Low
10-18-2008, 05:27 PM
I'd stay away from maltese work for a while as right now you probably don't have the strength to get the benefits out if it that you want. You're better off working planche and iron cross first and then when you have a decent amount of strength going for maltese work.

This is mainly cause you need to lower into about 45 degree cross with rings full stablized, then lean forward and do holds without crashing and burning... leaning forward to less than 45 degrees isn't going to do much -- better off with rings turned out dips leaned forward some until you can do more than that.

As far as programming, right now I'm working a series of maltese push to planche which is nice.. but still playing around with the idea of how much do to especially with this isometric. Much different than anything else I've done so far unfortunately..

Chris H Laing
10-19-2008, 05:53 PM
Alright, I'll stick to HSPU, weighted dips and PL progression push ups (maybe some PPPU) for my pushing exercises. Also I'll be watching your log to follow how you train for the maltese. When you get it make sure to post a vid :p

Chris H Laing
11-10-2008, 02:39 PM
Steven if you check this...

I did tuck invert ecc to hang today and I gotta say they are much harder than just holding the tuck fl position. I dunno what it is, but when I get down to parallel I cant control it anymore and I just drop. Pretty much I could only lower for 3-5 seconds before falling.

I'm thinking its because I was pulling myself into the invert position, and that maybe that taxes the back to much or something, but when I jumped into the inverted position the rings swung back and forth and made it much harder.

Any insight?

Steven Low
11-10-2008, 06:12 PM
It's possible to jump to inverted hang without swinging. You will have to learn how to do that. One way to do it is similar to front lever pulls or ice cream makers... pullup then lean back to inverted hang while simultaneous straightening the arms. Or just jump the feet up and lean back.

You can add in the concentric portion, but it's better if you use all your strength on the eccentric because you can generally get more quality work that way.

Chris H Laing
11-11-2008, 04:06 PM
So your probably getting sick of all my questions but I have yet another one.

Does either the front lever or OAC have much carry over to the other? I feel like I am chasing too many goals at the moment. I want a free standing hspu, a bodyweight weighted dip, a front lever, a bodyweight weighted pullup, and a oac.

I'm going to focus on the bodyweight weighted ring dip as my push goal for the moment as I have no way to train hspu's while at the gym. The problem is I can't decided on whether I should go for the front lever as my pull goal, or go for the weighted pullups and use those to build strength towards doing one arm negatives and eventually a OAC.

So basically the question is this: Does one exercise (front lever/oac) have greater carry over to the other? Does the oac have more carry over to the front lever or does the front lever have more carry over to the oac. Basically which one would be more beneficial to work towards first?

Sorry this question is so convoluted and confusing...I've been doing homework all day.

Steven Low
11-11-2008, 08:14 PM
Pulling moves all relate to each other:
back lever, front lever, one arm chin, cross, weighted pullups, etc.

Pushing moves all related:
planche, maltese, inverted cross, handstand pushups, press handstands, dips, etc.

Some more than others.

As far as pulling moves and correlations.. I've found cross carries over the best, then OAC, then front lever, then back lever. Weighted pullups are somewhere inbetween OAC and back lever. Basically, the highest skilled move carries over the best..... but a LARGE part of the "strength" is going to be CNS related from practicing the move itself (aka movement pattern strength... grease the groove). So it would be best to do a MIX of each.

In my routines I generally work on 2-3 different pulling motions at once; one is directly related to my goal like devoted OAC negatives or assisted OAC positives and then front lever work or weighted pullups as corollaries. Of course, my goal is not JUST the moves themselves but overall strength in any range of motion.

If you want to focus on specifically something it would be best to devote about 80% of your work on the goal itself and then maybe 20% on extra exercises that relate. Right now I am kind of doing this with devoted OAC work everyday and then sometimes extra pulling work generally either front lever or cranks or some variations thereof.

Blair Lowe
11-12-2008, 12:49 AM
I'd reccomend working that front lever till it's solid if you want to get a straight body backward felge.

You can still work the weighted pulls and do negative one arm climbs on ropes ( Coach Sommer calls them "cirques") somewhere in there.

You can work the handstand pushups at the gym on parallettes with your body piked upside down. Feet on a block; the block should be lower than hip height. Work these besides a real solid handstand.

OAC will definitely work your pull strength just like weighted pulls. These will give you the pull strength for the front lever but if your weakness is the torso strength to hold the lever, it won't do anything at all and you're better working body lever/dragon flag for that.

With OAC, you have to limit total pull volume and it's not worth sacrificing a lot of training time over. That's why I would reccomend the cirques. Especially since you're time is running out before competition season. Again, I'm arguing in favor of making your competition routine as awesome as possible instead of personal goals. However, if you'd rather reach the personal goals like OAC, BW PU or dip, Free HSPU, etc that is your own prerogative.

Chris H Laing
11-12-2008, 03:25 AM
Steven - So your saying I should work both weighted pullups(and eventually oac work) and front lever at the same time? I was under the impression that goals would be reached faster if you focused on them more...

Blair - I'm not actually competing in gymnastics, I just think that gymnastic strength is much better for training than weight lifting, although I do still include squats, deads, and cleans in my workouts.

Steven Low
11-12-2008, 08:50 AM
Steven - So your saying I should work both weighted pullups(and eventually oac work) and front lever at the same time? I was under the impression that goals would be reached faster if you focused on them more...

I said that... if your goal is the moves themselves then:

"If you want to focus on specifically something it would be best to devote about 80% of your work on the goal itself and then maybe 20% on extra exercises that relate. Right now I am kind of doing this with devoted OAC work everyday and then sometimes extra pulling work generally either front lever or cranks or some variations thereof."

Work either cross or OAC as they are fairly high skill (pick one.. your choice). Use the other 20% to work on your front lever or weighted pullups.

Chris H Laing
11-12-2008, 11:48 AM
Gotcha, sorry about the misunderstanding and thanks again.

Blair Lowe
11-12-2008, 06:35 PM
My bad, I got you confused with the guy who is doing a Hybrid program and planning to compete a ring routine in the Spring. After looking back through the thread, I remember you are now.

I'd work on the weighted dips and pullups till your numbers are decent before you embark on the OAC then.

Chris H Laing
11-13-2008, 04:49 AM
I'd work on the weighted dips and pullups till your numbers are decent before you embark on the OAC then.

I'm making some small parallettes this weekend so I can take them to the gym with me next week to work on the hspu, as it's a bigger goal for me.

For the weighted pullups/oac and front lever, I will be devoted 2 out of 3 workouts every week to pullups, and one to the front lever. Over the course of 2 weeks it will be 4 pullup workouts, and 2 fl workouts. Out of those 4 pullup workouts, probably only one will be spent on OAC negatives, and thats just to switch it up a little, and see how close I am to doing a full 7 sec negative.

Steven Low
11-13-2008, 10:20 AM
That works. To be honest, if you wanted THE fastest progress, do them everyday except for the testing day.

If you remember my OAC schedule during last summer (earlier in this thread), I did OAC pretty much everyday (eccentrics) + maybe one accessory exercise if I still had some decent energy (front lever or assisted concentrics), then my test day was weighted pullups plus maybe one other thing I wanted to work on.

Chris H Laing
11-13-2008, 10:26 AM
Once I can do a legit OAC negative, I'll do them almost everyday, but at the moment I can barely hold myself up on the bar with one arm, so I'm going to use the weighted pullups to gain that strength, and use the OAC assisted negs to gain familiarity with the movement.

Steven Low
11-13-2008, 11:09 AM
I was just using that as an example. For instance, you may want to do weighted pullups everytime.

I'm not sure why you would be doing just 4 WO with weighted pullups and 2 WOs with front lever. Generally, you'd want about 2-3 exercises with pulling unless you're going to go very heavy strength work (massive amounts of sets so it's not time efficient to do more than 1-2 exercises).

Chris H Laing
11-13-2008, 11:38 AM
Each workout consists of a lower body (squat, deadlift) and a push and pull. The pull exercises for four out of the six days in 2 weeks would be pullup related, while the other two would be fl related.

So the workout would not just be weighted pullups, but deadlift, hspu, and weighted pullups (or something like that)