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John Haydon Boatner
10-09-2008, 10:26 AM
What are some good carb choices post workout. Are granolas, oatmeal, yogurt, fruit, and yams all good stuff?

George Mounce
10-09-2008, 11:08 AM
I wouldn't put yogurt as a primary carb source, the rest would work fine yes.

Kevin Perry
10-09-2008, 12:18 PM
I have actually mixed plain yogurt with frozen fruit and milk + whey for a post-WO shake which is great but Im not sure what your overall current diet is.

Mike ODonnell
10-09-2008, 01:07 PM
Fruit in moderation.....as your liver can only hold so much glycogen (like 80g) from fructose...then it goes into fat.

Fenthis Glusos
10-09-2008, 04:49 PM
Do you know how much fruit it would take to get to 80g of fructose? A LOT, on average a piece of fruit has about 4.5 grams. Soda pop has more like 60g.

Fruit is excellent, healthy -- when you tell ordinary people about the whole fructose concern they just won't eat it and instead have a trashy muffin ("oh look, muffins...they're healthy right?") or something. Seriously, people today are really THIS dumb.

The fruit scare is ridiculous. 2 pieces of fruit is considered a lot to your average joe. haha

Let's face it, the whole sugar craze in America has made fruit non-delectable to the masses. If you tell your average joe that he can eat an infinite amount of fruit, he will tire after the second bite of the first one.

In essence, fruit has far less sugar in it than people attribute to it. There are groups of people that live off of fruit entirely (probably not the wisest choice, but...) and have no sugar/weight related issues -- the same cannot be said for someone who lives entirely off of cake.


As per original question: brown rice is tasty...and eat fish as it tends to increase carb tolerance.

George Mounce
10-09-2008, 05:22 PM
Do you know how much fruit it would take to get to 80g of fructose? A LOT, on average a piece of fruit has about 4.5 grams. Soda pop has more like 60g.

Fruit is excellent, healthy -- when you tell ordinary people about the whole fructose concern they just won't eat it and instead have a trashy muffin or something. Seriously, people today are really THIS dumb.

The fruit scare is ridiculous. 2 pieces of fruit is considered a lot to your average joe. haha

Let's face it, the whole sugar craze in America has made fruit non-delectable to the masses. If you tell your average joe that he can eat an infinite amount of fruit, he will tire after the second bite of the first one.

In essence, fruit has far less sugar in it than people attribute to it. There are groups of people that live off of fruit entirely (probably not the wisest choice, but...) and have no sugar/weight related issues -- the same cannot be said for someone who lives entirely off of cake.


As per original question: brown rice is tasty...and eat fish as it tends to increase carb tolerance.

Huh?

Here are 7 fruits with sugar content I randomly picked that are pretty common.

Apple 23g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1809/2
Banana 17g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1846/2
Fig 10g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1884/2
Date 16g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/7348/2
Orange 17g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1966/2
Grapefruit 16g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1905/2

Your "average" piece has a lot more than 4.5g of sugar. I'm not against fruit at all, but we must be realistic with our numbers before just stating them. High fruit consumption can easily put someone into high carb eating.

2 pieces of the right fruit can put you in the same league as those new 100 calorie cans of soda.

Fenthis Glusos
10-09-2008, 05:37 PM
Huh?

Here are 7 fruits with sugar content I randomly picked that are pretty common.

Apple 23g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1809/2
Banana 17g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1846/2
Fig 10g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1884/2
Date 16g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/7348/2
Orange 17g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1966/2
Grapefruit 16g http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1905/2

Your "average" piece has a lot more than 4.5g of sugar. I'm not against fruit at all, but we must be realistic with our numbers before just stating them. High fruit consumption can easily put someone into high carb eating.

2 pieces of the right fruit can put you in the same league as those new 100 calorie cans of soda.


No because we're talking about fructose content not pure sugar content for liver glycogen.

Fruit has a mixture of different sugars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose


check out the fructose content of some of the fruits in that chart and see that a banana is practically split 50/50 with fructose/glucose at the 4/5 gram range. Soda pop has 60 grams of fructose -- practically 12 times that of fruit!

As you can tell, I'm not a fan of low-carb diets when they exclude whole foods like fruit. Give me a break...fruit is a food that we've been designed to eat, "zone" bars are not.

In fact, I operate best on a high-carb diet consisting of fruits and vegetables with a little meat, some nuts, rice and natural yoghurt. Carbs found in whole foods are not the enemy, processed food is. Sure, everyone is different, but everyone would benefit from eating real foods instead of replacement foods i.e. zone bars, protein shakes.

I'm sure you agree with me here, just getting stuff off my chest. haha.

George Mounce
10-09-2008, 05:58 PM
No because we're talking about fructose content not pure sugar content for liver glycogen.

Fruit has a mixture of different sugars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose


check out the fructose content of some of the fruits in that chart and see that a banana is practically split 50/50 with fructose/glucose at the 4/5 gram range. Soda pop has 60 grams of fructose -- practically 12 times that of fruit!

As you can tell, I'm not a fan of low-carb diets when they exclude whole foods like fruit. Give me a break...just stop eating muffins instead.

Actually, he asked about carb choices post workout and it got derailed, I'm probably part of the problem here.

I frankly don't agree with you at all about fruit, and I'll leave it at that.

You give a small child an orange and a piece of broccoli, I can tell you without even batting an eyelash which they are going for as their brain is craving the one with more CHOs. I don't need a huge amount of medical literature nor a definition of left and right-handed sugar to figure it out.

(And just to give a happy list, here is a list of the amount of fructose in fruits (http://dionysseus.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/fructose-and-fruit/))

Fenthis Glusos
10-09-2008, 06:03 PM
orange or broccoli? So what, there is no lesser good there.

That chart is also for a 200 calorie serving, do you know how many oranges that is just to get to 80 grams of fructose? A lot. Also, I see a lot of dried fruit up high...everyone should know why.

You have to look at the whole picture; bottom line, the fructose in fruit is not that much, averaging about 4.5-7 grams per serving -- 2-3 grams for an orange

I'd rather see someone eat 20 oranges a day instead of one zone bar.

*** It'll take about 30 oranges to reach 80 grams of fructose. Do the math from that chart by looking at the calories:

calories in an orange = about 60

grams of fructose in 200 calories of orange = about 9

approximately 3.3 oranges for 9 grams of fructose --> 80/9 = 8.9 --> 8.9 x 3.3 = 30 oranges to reach 80g of fructose.

1 and 1/4 can of pop for the same. Choose wisely.


Topic is not derailed: Fruit was questioned in the OP and fruit has been delivered as an ideal carb source, unless of course carbs themselves are the enemy -- which they're not.

Its the same tin-foil hat thought people in the crossfit community adhere to - the fruit scare, yet they have no problem shoveling ice cream down their throats and then to have the audacity to say that a few servings of fruit may be detrimental.

...On a side note, I've been known to eat about 20 clementines in one day when needed.

Kevin Perry
10-09-2008, 06:53 PM
hmm, to the OP:

MOD and George are probably trying to get at the point that too much fruit has a lot of sugar which is what you initially want to avoid thus keeping fruits in moderation. Otherwise like MOD said, too much sugar into the liver eventually will store as fat since the culprit of everything is that.. sugar.

I think your list is fine with the exception of fruits, just keep them to moderation and also keep starches out of the diet. You just want enough carbs to restore glycogen depletion...

Anyone can correct me if im wrong on that...

Fenthis Glusos
10-09-2008, 06:57 PM
So you think granolas are better than fruit?

ha ha

You're wrong, buddy...read the post above yours.

Kevin Perry
10-09-2008, 07:01 PM
So you think granolas are better than fruit?

ha ha

You're wrong, buddy...read the post above yours.

Though I said no such thing...

you seem to be the type that assumes things... unfortunate.

Fenthis Glusos
10-09-2008, 07:03 PM
Though I said no such thing...

you seem to be the type that assumes things... unfortunate.

Nope. See:

hmm, to the OP:


I think your list is fine with the exception of fruits, just keep them to moderation and also keep starches out of the diet. You just want enough carbs to restore glycogen depletion...



His (The OP, to whom you addressed your response) list included granolas, but I see you have no objection to them as per above statement, only fruit.

Kevin Perry
10-09-2008, 07:06 PM
I have no opinion on granolas as I don't eat them henc why I left it out of my note. I said keep fruit in moderation as that was the basis of the original conversation...

Fenthis Glusos
10-09-2008, 07:10 PM
I'm not saying granolas are inherently bad, as they can be made quite good but if fruit is your only source of fructose/glucose, you have nothing at all to worry about when eating more.

Fruit is brain food. So is spinach. Everyone should eat up on them.

Liam Dougherty Springer
10-09-2008, 09:53 PM
Coconut milk ice cream, Dark choclate,yams butter and cinnamon, whole raw milk, and coconut water.:)

Mike ODonnell
10-10-2008, 12:38 AM
Let's face it, the whole sugar craze in America has made fruit non-delectable to the masses. If you tell your average joe that he can eat an infinite amount of fruit, he will tire after the second bite of the first one.

In essence, fruit has far less sugar in it than people attribute to it. There are groups of people that live off of fruit entirely (probably not the wisest choice, but...) and have no sugar/weight related issues -- the same cannot be said for someone who lives entirely off of cake.

The average person gets so much HFCS syrup into their bodies...their liver gets fat. Fruit as the only carb source to a healthy active person is one thing.....a person drinking soda, eating processed foods and adding fruit on top of all that is quite another. To assume a native living off fruit with no other carb sources and the average sick american should do the same thing....is like comparing apples to rocks.

Darryl Shaw
10-10-2008, 06:43 AM
I'm with Fenthis on this one; fruit is about as good as it gets nutritionally post workout because in addition to carbs you get electrolytes, antioxidants and a whole host of phytonutrients that might just help you live longer.

John Haydon Boatner
10-11-2008, 10:16 AM
Well whats the verdict on yams and oatmeal and rice and stuff. At lean gains Martin reccomends most of the foods post workout on lifting days should be starch as to refill muscle glycogen. Besides, soaking wet Im only around 125 lol and 5'10.

Kevin Perry
10-11-2008, 10:19 AM
Well whats the verdict on yams and oatmeal and rice and stuff. At lean gains Martin reccomends most of the foods post workout on lifting days should be starch as to refill muscle glycogen. Besides, soaking wet Im only around 125 lol and 5'10.

125? You need to get some weight on dem bones.

Fenthis Glusos
10-11-2008, 11:52 AM
Besides, soaking wet Im only around 125 lol and 5'10.

122 lbs, 5'9" here

Don't feel the need to bulk either, it is a personal choice...and I eat a reasonable enough as it is already and besides, I wouldn't be able to maintain the extra poundage it in the long term anyway.

I would have to eat an upwards of 3,500-4,000 (I think) calories a day to pack on weight and to me that is wasteful -- with my good workout metabolism/hormones/early 20's age.

Liam Dougherty Springer
10-11-2008, 12:24 PM
Well whats the verdict on yams and oatmeal and rice and stuff. At lean gains Martin reccomends most of the foods post workout on lifting days should be starch as to refill muscle glycogen. Besides, soaking wet Im only around 125 lol and 5'10.

Find a cow you can barely lift buy it lift it cary it home and eat it! Wake up tomorow and find a slightly bigger cow.:)

Yams and oatmeal will only6 help but keep it to after you work out like Martin said.

Jay Cohen
10-11-2008, 02:51 PM
122 lbs, 5'9" here

Don't feel the need to bulk either,

Dude, my Farmer Walk bars are 6' long and w/u starts at 125 per bar, plus I think my girl friend is bigger then you.

Really, you don't feel the need to add some weight??

Oh, I get it, your a Male model needing the "Ethiopian Marathoner" look. Cool..............

Fenthis Glusos
10-11-2008, 05:58 PM
Dude, my Farmer Walk bars are 6' long and w/u starts at 125 per bar, plus I think my girl friend is bigger then you.

Really, you don't feel the need to add some weight??

Oh, I get it, your a Male model needing the "Ethiopian Marathoner" look. Cool..............

well dude, it makes my dick look that much meatier. haha

seriously though, why even bother fighting the current? If my body wants to be at 122 then let it, I'll just revel in other debaucheries... all the while continuing to eat my usual fare of spinach, garlic, figs and sardines -- yummmm

that's my metabolism right there

I like your fitday log though and laugh everytime I see the pretzels on there. What do you do like dip them in peanut butter? sounds good actually

let's be friends

George Mounce
10-11-2008, 07:54 PM
Dude, my Farmer Walk bars are 6' long and w/u starts at 125 per bar, plus I think my girl friend is bigger then you.

Really, you don't feel the need to add some weight??

Oh, I get it, your a Male model needing the "Ethiopian Marathoner" look. Cool..............

Is that the new look this year? Damn, then I'm way overweight, and way too strong.

Mike ODonnell
10-11-2008, 10:06 PM
Let's not go personal and keep it to the topic at hand....otherwise nothing is to be gained.

PWO discussion is the topic......in case we lost track.

Jay, play nice with others...if he is happy at lower weight...it's his decision on how he wants to live his life.

Fenthis, what ever weight you choose is up to you...we are not here to judge....although don't blame your metabolism if you don't want to gain weight by not eating enough......as the "quick metabolism" excuse is usually just those people who eat very little and run around way too much. Your body comp is your choice....but don't put down others for wanting more muscle or size...as your longevity may shorten with that attitude in the process.

Oh yeah.....your pwo attitude towards fruit is fine towards people who are lean like yourself....but that attitude does not work in mainstream society with overweight people who will not give up grains and other sweets....as I know since my living/profession is based on dealing with those people year after year.

Jay Cohen
10-12-2008, 03:03 AM
let's be friends

OK, fair deal.

Darryl Shaw
10-13-2008, 06:09 AM
The average person gets so much HFCS syrup into their bodies...their liver gets fat. Fruit as the only carb source to a healthy active person is one thing.....a person drinking soda, eating processed foods and adding fruit on top of all that is quite another. To assume a native living off fruit with no other carb sources and the average sick american should do the same thing....is like comparing apples to rocks.

Oh yeah.....your pwo attitude towards fruit is fine towards people who are lean like yourself....but that attitude does not work in mainstream society with overweight people who will not give up grains and other sweets....as I know since my living/profession is based on dealing with those people year after year.

Are you saying that soda drinking, pizza loving couch potatoes shouldn't eat fruit because it'll make them fat?

George Mounce
10-13-2008, 07:11 AM
Are you saying that soda drinking, pizza loving couch potatoes shouldn't eat fruit because it'll make them fat?

I don't think so, but fruit isn't going to help those people at all by adding it to an already crap diet.

Mike ODonnell
10-13-2008, 07:42 AM
I don't think so, but fruit isn't going to help those people at all by adding it to an already crap diet.

Xactly

Jane Michel
10-22-2008, 05:19 PM
Concerning fruit, this study might be of interest... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081016074701.htm

JW Luckett
10-22-2008, 05:41 PM
Fructose is the sugar found in fruit, but itís not the normal consumption of fruit that is the problem.

This seems to be kind of important.