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Chet Morjaria
10-24-2008, 08:10 AM
Folks,

A quick question if you would be so kind :)

I've had a peek at the current threads, and done a few searches, but can't see anything about this so thought I'd see what you reckon...

So...I'm male, 28, 60kg, approximately 10%-11% BF. Have just started the August 18th CA WOD cycle after coming off CF WODS - loving it :D

Anyway...am Paleo zoning and using the standard formula and Robb Wolfs suggested CF WOD multiplier of 0.7 - I am on 12 blocks a day. Am on triple fats 'cos it from trial and error, it's where I need to be in terms of energy levels etc.

Anyway...from henceforth my schedule will consist of following the CA WOD cycle as above, and in addition, around 90 mins of Oly tuition twice a week :)

Also will add a few CF metcons and skill practice - around twice a week, these are likely to be BW and gymnastic based.

In terms of other sports etc - probably to infrequent/sporadic to be of any significance here.

So...was just wondering what you guys think is an appropriate multiplier for this level of activity? Also, just out of interest, what you would suggest as a base multiplier for just the CA WODS (the same as CF WODs at around 0.7?)

Cheers, looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

C.

Ben Moskowitz
10-24-2008, 04:07 PM
from Greg Everett
There’s like 3 grams of protein for a 185 pound guy. But, so, for a weightlifter the Zone sucks. I would never ever let a lifter use the Zone, unless they had to lose weight and even then I’d probably just have them do some Paleo kind of naturally low-carb stuff.

http://www.againfaster.com/articles/greg-everett-olympic-lifting-crossfit-and-catalyst-athletics.html
WFS

maybe it's different for the combo platter, though.

Steven Low
10-24-2008, 06:48 PM
What are your goals? What weight are you moving with your lifts?

Cause if you wanna get stronger/bigger you should probably do something other than PM/CA Wods to start..

Gant Grimes
10-30-2008, 09:12 AM
So...I'm male, 28, 60kg, approximately 10%-11% BF. Have just started the August 18th CA WOD cycle after coming off CF WODS - loving it :D

Anyway...am Paleo zoning and using the standard formula and Robb Wolfs suggested CF WOD multiplier of 0.7 - I am on 12 blocks a day. Am on triple fats 'cos it from trial and error, it's where I need to be in terms of energy levels etc.

...

So...was just wondering what you guys think is an appropriate multiplier for this level of activity? Also, just out of interest, what you would suggest as a base multiplier for just the CA WODS (the same as CF WODs at around 0.7?)

Hmm. How bout a multiplier of 0? In other words, trash the Zone if you're serious about lifting weight. Keep your carbs at 12 blocks and go up to 19 protein blocks (at least). 3x fat is probably fine provided you're still doing a couple metcons.

Chris H Laing
11-08-2008, 06:18 AM
trash the Zone if you're serious about lifting weight.

Why is the zone so bad for weightlifting? Lack of protein?

and...

If you're into weightlifting, but also crossfitting and doing gymnastic strength workouts as well, is zone a good or bad choice?

Brian DeGennaro
11-08-2008, 07:43 PM
The Zone is extremely calorie restricted for weightlifting (plus lacking a ton of protein). Most people are going to be put on 13-20 blocks on the Zone, which equates to about 1600-2200 calories. Zone simply cannot keep up with the demand of a weightlifter and most other athletes.

I did track and gymnastics on Zone and was severely out of it. I could do my practices but I just didn't have the energy to do well at it. Practices sucked terribly. There was too much strength and power being demanded in order to perform well. In Crossfit, I could bang that out any day of the week because the loads were so light for me. But the actual sports I played suffered severely.

I was on 25 blocks mind you, and definitely had more fat. I went off Zone and starting eating normally (which ends up being over 50 blocks on the Zone), saw my performances increase dramatically. Zone is good if your sport requires you to be energy efficient for periods of time, but if it demands anything other than that, you're screwed on it.

Chet Morjaria
11-09-2008, 10:33 AM
from Greg Everett


http://www.againfaster.com/articles/greg-everett-olympic-lifting-crossfit-and-catalyst-athletics.html
WFS

maybe it's different for the combo platter, though.

Ben,

Cheers for the link- reminded me to catch that interview, been meaning to for a wee while. Very interesting listening :)

Chet Morjaria
11-09-2008, 10:47 AM
What are your goals? What weight are you moving with your lifts?

Cause if you wanna get stronger/bigger you should probably do something other than PM/CA Wods to start..

Steven,

Goals are...a little messed up, ha. Here goes:

Managed to keep pretty much the same weight (60kg-62kg) over the past year whist getting significantly stronger/fitter/faster doing CrossFit...

Which is a good thing - as I am doing a wee bit of competitive powerlifting from early 2009, for which I need to be in the sub 60kg category.

I do like being small, and the power/weight ratios that come with it. Having said that - If I wasn't doing this powerlifting, I would likely take this opportunity of all the strength and oly work I'm doing to try and get upto the 65kg-70kg mark as that's where I feel I would be able to do most damage in general :)

So...yes, the goals at the moment in terms of strength etc - are to get stronger, but not bigger lol.

And in terms of weights lifted just now - well, whatever Oly maxes I have ATM are certainly limited by tech...and I can see a whole load of improvements being made in the near future largely through improved tech...

Bit of a mind dump, ha. But that is where I'm at just now.

Chet Morjaria
11-09-2008, 10:53 AM
Hmm. How bout a multiplier of 0? In other words, trash the Zone if you're serious about lifting weight. Keep your carbs at 12 blocks and go up to 19 protein blocks (at least). 3x fat is probably fine provided you're still doing a couple metcons.

Gant,

Thank you very much for the advice.

I've gone down these lines 'in the meantime', whilst working out exactly how to play this nutrition lark for the next wee while :)

So, if thinking about it in block terms, currently hitting up about 22P, 45F (triple would have been a lot I think!),and about 6-7C, most of them being PWO (is this enough you think? I'm happy to keep carbs as low as poss)

This seems to be working quite well, am increasing strength on a bunch of stuff, am leaning up too :D, energy levels perhaps a little low though....

Would appreciate your thoughts on this :)

Chet Morjaria
11-09-2008, 10:58 AM
I was on 25 blocks mind you, and definitely had more fat. I went off Zone and starting eating normally (which ends up being over 50 blocks on the Zone), saw my performances increase dramatically. Zone is good if your sport requires you to be energy efficient for periods of time, but if it demands anything other than that, you're screwed on it.

Brian - cheers.

Would been interested in finding out a few specifics with regard to the above eg what your BW was at the time, and how you found the '50 blocks' of protein affected your bodyweight/body comp and any other significant factors compared to what you were doing before? Etc...

Thanks!

Brian DeGennaro
11-09-2008, 12:02 PM
My bodyweight fluctuated between 148-152lbs (5'5") at the time I was Zoning and until I came to college this fall, and I haven't been higher than 10% BF, on or off Zone. I meant I had more fat as in I was eating more blocks of fat. Doubling my calories to 5000kcals a day is a normal thing for me today, and was the same before being on Zone. I was eating TONS of food and my parents were in shock when I started eating less. Currently I'm hovering between 163-166lbs (5'5") but that was on a month of intentional weight gain in order to give myself a fighting chance in the 77kg class. I hover between 7-10% BF depending on the day.

After putting on the mass my intake is back to 5000kcals, whereas it was closer to 6000+ as I was gaining (as well as more volume while lifting). My diet hasn't changed much at all over the past 5 years, I'm just in college this year. I still eat a lot, and the breakdown of my caloric intake is 60-65% fats, 25-30% protein, and 10-15% carbs. Respectively (according to fitday.com) I consume on average 320g of fats (mostly oils and olives), 270g of protein, and 120g of carbs daily (all from fruits and veggies). At home this was pretty much the same thing, although I'd say the fat intake might have been closer to the amount of protein I consumed.

I chalk up the ridiculous amount of protein I consume (which can get upwards of 350g if the cafeteria is serving steak for dinner) to my great recovery. On the Zone I could be run down into the ground after heavy lifting days or heavy sprint/gymnastics days. Nowadays I very rarely ever get sore, even after doing Tabata rowing or anything like that. If I am sore I notice it's when I don't eat enough meat and calories.

Gant Grimes
11-11-2008, 01:45 PM
I consume on average 320g of fats (mostly oils and olives), 270g of protein, and 120g of carbs daily (all from fruits and veggies). At home this was pretty much the same thing, although I'd say the fat intake might have been closer to the amount of protein I consumed.

I chalk up the ridiculous amount of protein I consume (which can get upwards of 350g if the cafeteria is serving steak for dinner) to my great recovery.

Damn you and your college meal plan! Funding a 200+ g/day protein gets expensive.

Respect.

Garrett Smith
11-11-2008, 03:53 PM
Brian, never underestimate the "contributions to recovery" that simply being 18 years old gives you...:D

That is compounded many times by the fact that you train and eat smart. :)

Brian DeGennaro
11-11-2008, 03:58 PM
I always consider that a cop-out though, Garret.

Honesty, Gant, eating 200g+ at home wasn't too hard either. We always had enough nuts, meat, and yogurt at home to keep me satiated. BJ's and Cosco are a Godsend. It's going to suck seeing how much of my paycheck is going towards food though each week when I get off the meal plan. Oh well, I need to survive to make money.

It was funny, my mom was afraid my meal plan wasn't going to be enough. Lol.

Garrett Smith
11-11-2008, 04:12 PM
I look at it this way--using age as an excuse to eat crappy and train stupid would be a cop-out.

You are doing quite the opposite.

Brian DeGennaro
11-11-2008, 04:46 PM
Thanks, I've always eaten this way and was always told to think for myself and read between the lines. Everyone, clients especially, love I'm just full of fun facts about nutrition and exercise.

I just don't see the thing about being 18 as having too much of an influence if I already am eating and training smart. I like to think if it weren't for that I'd be much worse off.

Chet Morjaria
11-11-2008, 05:14 PM
Lol.

Thanks Brian - a few things for me to ponder there.

Also you have inspired me to try and log my daily munching on FitDay - I do enjoy playing with diet and this will help add hard data to my observations and thoughts.