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Sam Brothers
10-30-2008, 01:12 PM
Given the contamination & sustainability issues surrounding fish oil etc...

I came across this today. I assume more companies will follow suit and thus price will lower.
http://www.water4.net/index.htm

Blair Lowe
10-30-2008, 02:03 PM
Would make sense considering algae grows at insane rates which is why it's being looked to being used as a fuel source as well.

Garrett Smith
10-30-2008, 04:06 PM
Whilst omega-3 is present in fish oil, fish do not produce omega-3, fish obtain their omega-3 from their diet of algae.
Fish don't produce O-3s at all? Seriously? I sure would like a reference on that one...

Mike ODonnell
10-30-2008, 04:30 PM
Fish don't produce O-3s at all? Seriously? I sure would like a reference on that one...

that interested me as well....so I found this:

Heterotrophic production of eicosapentaenoic acid by microalgae.

Wen ZY, Chen F.

Department of Botany, The University of Hong Kong, Pokfulam Road, Hong Kong, PR China.

Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) is an omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid that plays an important role in the regulation of biological functions and prevention and treatment of a number of human diseases such as heart and inflammatory diseases. As fish oil fails to meet the increasing demand for purified EPA, alternative sources are being sought. Microalgae contain large quantities of high-quality EPA and they are considered a potential source of this important fatty acid. Some microalgae can be grown heterotrophically on cheap organic substrate without light. This mode of cultivation can be well controlled and provides the possibility to maximize EPA production on a large scale. Numerous strategies have been investigated for commercial production of EPA by microalgae. These include screening of high EPA-yielding microalgal strains, improvement of strains by genetic manipulation, optimization of culture conditions, and development of efficient cultivation systems. This paper reviews recent advances in heterotrophic production of EPA by microalgae with an emphasis on the use of diatoms as producing organisms.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14499126?dopt=Abstract

Interesting although in the long run probably not cheaper than fish oil or eating a can of sardines (which are very low in mercury and PCBs since they are a smaller fish, but yet high in omega 3s).

Garrett Smith
10-30-2008, 05:52 PM
MOD,
I wasn't doubting the ability of algae to produce the EPA/DHA, I was more questioning the statement that fish don't make any O-3s at all and get all of it from the algae component of their diets.

Humans may not make a bunch, but we can synthesize some from the plants that we eat, so the idea that fish can't at all seems off at first glance to me. Then again, there may be enough O-3s in the algae that fish eat that they don't need to make their own anymore--kind of like us humans and Vitamin C, we get what we need from food (at least we are supposed to, anyway) and that enzyme system downregulated/devolved over time to the point of disappearing.

References are simply nice with a statement like that. Algae may be a huge part of the future, but to be lying about the fishies isn't right...if that's what is happening here.

Garrett Smith
10-30-2008, 06:34 PM
So I did a bit more searching and came up with this site and a reference (see, it's not that hard for others to do too!):

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/328/7436/406-b#REF3

The original source of the long chain omega 3 fatty acids found in fish is, however, the chloroplasts of marine algae and phytoplankton at the bottom of the food chain.3
...
3. Nordoy A, Dyerberg J. n-3 fatty acids in health and disease. J Intern Med 1989;225(suppl 1): S1-3.

I couldn't find that exact article on Pubmed, the closest I found was this (with no abstract): n-3 fatty acids in health and disease. Introduction. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2706037?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum) It's not the right article, it came out prior to the above one.

So, maybe that was a true statement after all. I'm all for skipping the middle-fish, as it were, unless Loren Cordain comes up with some Paleo reasoning to avoid eating algae...:p

Grissim Connery
10-31-2008, 02:53 AM
i checked and we have that nordoy article at my school. if you really wanted it, i could scan it.

Sam Brothers
10-31-2008, 09:04 AM
Grissim...would you have the pdf at your school, with online access? maybe download it and post it here?
It could be a nice reference, especially since this is so new.


Here is a quick video on algae production. How they can tailor the algae for any oil they want. (Not the same company that makes the omega 3 but you can imagine what the future will bring)

http://cc.pubco.net/www.valcent.net/i/misc/Vertigro/index.html
http://www.valcent.net

Brian Lau
10-31-2008, 09:05 AM
Whilst omega-3 is present in fish oil, fish do not produce omega-3, fish obtain their omega-3 from their diet of algae.

It's worth pointing out the difference between species:

However, the precise EFA requirement of fish varies both quantitatively and qualitatively between different species (Watanabe, 1982; Kanazawa, 1985; Sargent et al., 1989; Sargent et al., 1995). Fish species displaying a so-called ‘freshwater’ [eg., salmon] pattern are able to convert the C18 EFA, 18:3n-3 and 18:2n-6, to the longer chain, more unsaturated and physiologically important highly unsaturated fatty acids (HUFA), eicosapentaenoic acid (20:5n-3; EPA), docosahexaenoic acid (22:6n-3; DHA) and arachidonic acid (20:4n-6; AA), via a series of fatty acid desaturase and elongase enzymes, and so only require the C18 PUFA (Henderson & Tocher, 1989; Sargent et al., 1989; Sargent et al., 1995). In contrast, fish species displaying a typical ‘marine’ pattern cannot perform these conversions at an appreciable rate, and so require a dietary source of the essential HUFA (Sargent et al., 1989; Sargent et al., 1995). This paradigm was based on data from relatively few species, stemming mainly from original work on one freshwater species, rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss), and one marine species, turbot (Scophthalmus maximus) (Owen et al., 1975). However, in recent years, other fish species have been studied which indicate that this paradigm is generally correct, although it has been speculated that the ‘marine’ pattern may actually be a pattern associated with adaptation to a carnivorous lifestyle ( Mourente, 1993; Mourente and Sargent et al., 1995). The hypothesis being that consumption of a carnivorous/piscivorous diet, naturally rich in HUFA, results in an evolutionary down-regulation of the desaturase and/or elongase enzyme activities required for the conversion of C18 PUFA to HUFA (Sargent et al., 1995).

Source: Tocher et al., 2001 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11544096)

This is also a worthwhile read: Fish oils and human diet. Sargent JR. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9292771)

Garrett Smith
10-31-2008, 09:19 AM
Nice post, Brian.

Blair Lowe
10-31-2008, 09:51 AM
Sam, that is exactly what I was referring to. Biodiesel from Algae...mmm

Mike ODonnell
10-31-2008, 11:15 AM
Given the contamination & sustainability issues surrounding fish oil etc...

I came across this today. I assume more companies will follow suit and thus price will lower.
http://www.water4.net/index.htm

their product is:

Each recommended daily dose (three capsules) of V-Pure contains 270mg of DHA and 75mg of EPA.

4:1 DHA:EPA ratio....where fish oil is more 1.5:1 EPA: DHA.....just curious how algea is higher in DHA...and if there really is a good ratio to strive for? (as some will say DHA is the more important one to get)