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Andy Robinson
11-04-2008, 09:04 AM
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Arden Cogar Jr.
11-04-2008, 09:35 AM
Andy,
To be blunt, I'm impressed by your numbers. Good work. Very good work.

I completely agree with the approach that you're taking. But you may need to do a bit more strength training to adapat your body to what you're wanting. I know you love the met-con, but you may need to add a Saturday workout to get three days of strength training - varying the movements.

Beyond that, I think you will need to pay a bit more attention to is your protein intake.

If you want to gain strength and mass over time, you really need to give your body more to work with. I hope that makes sense?

I know that some don't advocate the use of protein powders and sugary post workout recovery drinks, but if you want to gain mass - I would recommend it. I'm a big advocate of biotest's Surge and MHP's dark matter - one sccop of it and one scoop of whey protein (doesn't matter what brand). Then before retiring for the evening, take another casien or blended protein shake (The old powered original Met-rx is pretty good as is MHP's problic SR).

I would monitor your weight every so often and keep track as to how you feel. I find that when I do too much met-con, my strength suffers. But you've admitted that you're addicted to the met con high (as am I), so you have to do it.

I'm considering a different approach to this type of training - doing my strength movements, then doing my GPP/met con after my strength movements - or doing them at different times of the day. Don't know how my body will like it, but it's a thought. It amounts to weight training every other day - doing very brief met con after wards. Then the following day, doing my regular met con or event training in the morning and again during the evening.

In any event. Good luck and enjoy. Let us know how it works out for you.

All the best,
Arden

Dave Van Skike
11-04-2008, 10:00 AM
My limited perspective comign form teh opposite direction. easy gainer, metcon is rarte but easy for me to pick up and I'm sitting somewhere north of 15% BF.

1. Do you guys think this template is conducive to mass gain and maintaining a strong metabolic base?

probably...BUT....the best thing you can do for your base is to get stronger.


2. Should I abandon notions of a clean diet and use this period to bulk up? (I love the idea of unabashed feeding frenzies.

Yes and no...at my age, (39) mild overeating, even for someone who puts on mass easily makes a real difference. I wouldn't go all apeshit with it but protein shakes adn targeted protein and extra carbs will help in the strenght dept.

3. How much slower will my progress be in the strength dept. with the additional MetCon work?
no one know that.....but.. with your low weight and relatively high output capacity any met con that you would enjoy will present some hindrance...I'd massively downgrade it.

I will take a rash of shit on this next point but I have used and have seen many many athletes use a combo of very short intense efforts (think classic finishers, heavy bag work, sled dragging sand bags for sub 5 minutes at the tail of a strength session) coupled with LOW INTENSITY CARDIO as a way to keep the CV system running well, stay frosty at running and biking stuff, promote joint mobility and recovery while mitigating some of the caloric excesses that you get into with classic "bulking"

Gant Grimes
11-04-2008, 01:56 PM
I'm considering a different approach to this type of training - doing my strength movements, then doing my GPP/met con after my strength movements - or doing them at different times of the day. Don't know how my body will like it, but it's a thought. It amounts to weight training every other day - doing very brief met con after wards. Then the following day, doing my regular met con or event training in the morning and again during the evening.

That's the hybrid program in a nutshell. Your body will like it fine.

Sorry to piggyback on Dave's stuff, but we're in agreement on a lot of this.

My limited perspective comign form teh opposite direction. easy gainer, metcon is rarte but easy for me to pick up and I'm sitting somewhere north of 15% BF.

1. Do you guys think this template is conducive to mass gain and maintaining a strong metabolic base?

probably...BUT....the best thing you can do for your base is to get stronger.

Agree with Dave. I'm not sure if you read the hybrid program I wrote, but I lifted every day. Heavy basic stuff, either OLY or strength lifts. No ancillary crap. Every day. I did 2-4 short metcon sessions per week.

2. Should I abandon notions of a clean diet and use this period to bulk up? (I love the idea of unabashed feeding frenzies.

Yes and no...at my age, (39) mild overeating, even for someone who puts on mass easily makes a real difference. I wouldn't go all apeshit with it but protein shakes adn targeted protein and extra carbs will help in the strenght dept.

I'm 34 and also an easy gainer. You HAVE to have extra protein, and yes, extra carbs will help, especially a big bowl of ice cream right before bed. I recently gained 20+ pounds with 60g extra protein/day, some grains, and the ice cream.

There is an old saying in business, "Don't dress for your current job, dress for the job you want to have." The same can be said for EATING.

3. How much slower will my progress be in the strength dept. with the additional MetCon work?
no one know that.....but.. with your low weight and relatively high output capacity any met con that you would enjoy will present some hindrance...I'd massively downgrade it.

Depends on the metcon. But it will slow things up a lot.

Derek Simonds
11-04-2008, 02:21 PM
Speaking of eating for the size you want check this out!

http://i35.tinypic.com/2yy9ysz.jpg

This is what is left of the food I brought in for work this week. Three containers of black beans, a shit ton of broccoli, already ate two bags of spinach, sauteed mushrooms with lots of healthy butter, some potato's and sweet potatos, 3 apples and 1 banana (pre-grappling energy), some sausage hot and mild, 21/2 lb's of sirloin steak and 12 chicken breasts. I am actually quite full thank you very much.

I am posting my version of the hybrid in my log, I didn't want to hijack your thread too much.

Gant Grimes
11-04-2008, 02:28 PM
Good eatin'. Speaking of pre-BJJ energy, I keep a bottle of glucose tabs in my gear bag. They can in handy for tourneys.

I look forward to reading your log.

Derek Weaver
11-04-2008, 06:47 PM
My limited perspective comign form teh opposite direction. easy gainer, metcon is rarte but easy for me to pick up and I'm sitting somewhere north of 15% BF.

1. Do you guys think this template is conducive to mass gain and maintaining a strong metabolic base?

probably...BUT....the best thing you can do for your base is to get stronger.


2. Should I abandon notions of a clean diet and use this period to bulk up? (I love the idea of unabashed feeding frenzies.

Yes and no...at my age, (39) mild overeating, even for someone who puts on mass easily makes a real difference. I wouldn't go all apeshit with it but protein shakes adn targeted protein and extra carbs will help in the strenght dept.

3. How much slower will my progress be in the strength dept. with the additional MetCon work?
no one know that.....but.. with your low weight and relatively high output capacity any met con that you would enjoy will present some hindrance...I'd massively downgrade it.

I will take a rash of shit on this next point but I have used and have seen many many athletes use a combo of very short intense efforts (think classic finishers, heavy bag work, sled dragging sand bags for sub 5 minutes at the tail of a strength session) coupled with LOW INTENSITY CARDIO as a way to keep the CV system running well, stay frosty at running and biking stuff, promote joint mobility and recovery while mitigating some of the caloric excesses that you get into with classic "bulking"

Dave,
Nice post. Somewhat easy gainer here as well once I finally budged off my set point. I think that's one of the things that the 30 and under crowd seem to forget or overlook (I'm 25) is that while some are hardgainers and others are easy gainers, the body nearly always needs a nudge.

The gradual bump up for me didn't cut it... massive over eating (by about 1500 cal/day) to get things rolling and then scale back. Weight and strength gain has been steady.

Maybe not the best thing for everyone, but something to keep in mind for the younger crowd as well as when progress either stalls or just fails to start.

I like what our TS has posted up here as well. Good thread.