View Full Version : Probitotics and Pneumonia

Derek Simonds
11-06-2008, 11:35 AM

Probiotics could be used to protect critically ill patients from developing pneumonia, according to scientists.

The friendly bacteria can block the colonisation by dangerous bugs of the airways of ventilated patients, the Swedish study concluded.

The probiotic solution performed just as well as normal antiseptics used to keep pneumonia-causing bacteria at bay, the journal Critical Care reported.

Being more natural it could pose fewer side effects, the authors said.

Interesting read............

Garrett Smith
11-06-2008, 12:11 PM
Good post, Derek.

[Rant On...Add Extra Sarcasm]

Imagine that...good bacteria preventing colonization by bad bacteria. Whoa...

The probiotic solution performed just as well as normal antiseptics used to keep pneumonia-causing bacteria at bay, the journal Critical Care reported.

Being more natural it could pose fewer side effects, the authors said.

Seriously??? Wow, these guys must be really smart! As in, fewer side effects than these from the "Official FDA Information on chlorhexidine" (http://www.drugs.com/pro/chlorhexidine.html)?
The most common side effects associated with Chlorhexidine gluconate oral rinses are (1) an increase in staining of teeth and other oral surfaces, (2) an increase in calculus formation, and (3) an alteration in taste perception; see WARNINGS and PRECAUTIONS. Oral irritation and local allergy-type symptoms have been spontaneously reported as side effects associated with the use of Chlorhexidine gluconate rinse. The following oral mucosal side effects were reported during placebo-controlled adult clinical trials: aphthous ulcer, grossly obvious gingivitis, trauma, ulceration, erythema, desquamation, coated tongue, keratinization, geographic tongue, mucocele, and short frenum. Each occurred at a frequency of less than 1.0%.
Among postmarketing reports, the most frequently reported oral mucosal symptoms associated with Chlorhexidine gluconate are stomatitis, gingivitis, glossitis, ulcer, dry mouth, hypesthesia, glossal edema, and paresthesia.
Minor irritation and superficial desquamation of the oral mucosa have been noted in patients using Chlorhexidine gluconate oral rinse.
There have been cases of parotid gland swelling and inflammation of the salivary glands (sialadenitis) reported in patients using Chlorhexidine gluconate oral rinse.

Here's a study on "Adhesion of the probiotic bacterium Lactobacillus plantarum 299v onto the gut mucosa in critically ill patients: a randomised open trial (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1175894)"...check the side/adverse effects that were noted:

• The probiotic bacteria Lactobacillus plantarum 299v, given enterally to critically ill patients on antibiotic therapy survives the passage through the gastrointestinal tract and has the ability to colonize the rectal mucosa

• It is necessary to administer Lp 299v daily when patients are on antibiotic therapy.

• We saw no adverse effects and the study product containing oatmeal soup was well tolerated.

• Administration increases the number of lactobacilli and reduces the number of Enterobacteriaceae.

• The absence of positive cultures in the treatment group indicates that Lp 299v may have an effect on the mucosal barrier or even have a positive impact on the immune system.

No adverse effects and maybe even positive effects? No, it isn't possible...

The probiotic bacterium Lactobacillus plantarum 299 is normally present in saliva and is also commonly found in fermented products like pickles and sauerkraut.

Which is exactly why we need to irradiate and pasteurize our pickles and sauerkraut, right? We don't want just anybody getting probiotics...they're a patented medical drug product now!

This is a plausible idea. But we need much larger trials that focus on clinical outcomes to prove it is an effective and affordable treatment.
Translation...someone has to make some $$ somewhere, or it's just not worth our time.

He said chlorhexidine highly effective, affordable and readily available.
Yeah, so are probiotics. Raw cultured vegetables should be too--or, people could make them at home.

There is really nasty stuff in hospitals...I got a case of diarrhea that lasted a week just from our recent hospital birth. While this wasn't a big issue, once I finally realized that this wasn't something that was going to go away on its own, I followed the simple "cure" given to me by one of my HIV+ patients (he was also an RN) who had frequent bouts of this issue--in one sitting, drink a whole bottle of Trader Joe's plain kefir (14 different strains of probiotics)--problem solved immediately. I can't imagine what people on multiple meds with severely compromised immune systems and a lack of good bacteria (from all the previous antibiotics) can catch.

And to think...they only used ONE strain of probiotic! Imagine what a multiple-spectrum (ie. more than one strain) could do...

Oh right, it could cut into Big Pharma's pockets...that's what.

[.../Rant Off]

Mike ODonnell
11-06-2008, 12:20 PM
Only place I know to get sicker is the hospital.....so I stay as far away as possible.

Joe Hart
11-06-2008, 12:46 PM
Some what of a parallel side note. The juicy poop (kid's term) fairy made a pass at our house last week. Everyone got the shits or barfed all over except me. I was wondering why I was so lucky as to dodge the poo...I take probiotics.

Our pediatrician seems to run along the sane lines for this. He recommends yogurt up the wazoo (eaten that is) and a BRAT diet. So can kids take probiotics just like me? Or is there a child version that they should get? The answer seems obvious, but we are talking about my kids here and I don't to take chances...

I think I should read up on probiotics. Its seems like a pretty easy change that can help alot.

Garrett Smith
11-06-2008, 01:46 PM
IMO, same probiotics, smaller dose. If your kids will eat yogurt, that may be enough that you don't need to supplement. If pills are a problem, there are powdered probiotics that you can get and mix into cold or room temp foods--this will get the probiotic variety higher.

Make sure to get an organic yogurt, plain "flavor" and add your own items to flavor it to lessen the undesirable ingredients in most yogurts. Most yogurt has two strains of probiotics at the most.

Doing kefir in the same manner will get the variety of strains provided much higher than yogurt. Flavor in the same manner.

Other than a dairy sensitivity, I've never heard of a problem with overdoing probiotic intake from kefir or yogurt.

Derek Simonds
11-06-2008, 02:32 PM
I have got to find some place to buy kefir locally.

sarena kopciel
11-06-2008, 03:46 PM
I have got to find some place to buy kefir locally.

What can be more local than your own kitchen?

Darryl Shaw
11-07-2008, 06:48 AM
Probiotic supplements have their place but in the long run it's better to keep your intenstinal flora happy by eating more of a plant based diet.

Pharmaceutical medicine has thus far been unable to stop the increasing global morbidity and mortality both in acute and chronic diseases. Typically, medical practice has focused on reducing the aggressor with treatments such as antibiotics; little interest has been given to efforts to increase the individual's resistance to disease. The increased morbidity has occurred in parallel to a deviation from a large consumption of fresh fruits, vegetables, and tubers rich in live lactic acid bacteria (LAB), plant fibers, and natural antioxidants to an industry-produced diet rich in fat and refined sugar but containing little fiber, antioxidants, and LAB.



Derek Simonds
11-07-2008, 08:01 AM
What can be more local than your own kitchen?

Well I guess I will have to learn how to make it. I will google. Any pointers. This would be a great article for the PM by the way.

Garrett Smith
11-07-2008, 08:54 AM
Making kefir is really easy, like most cultured things.

Get your base item (be it milk, veggies, etc.), add cultures if necessary, cover/seal and let it sit for a while. It would be a short article.

If you wanted to buy some before you put the work into making it, you can get kefir at Whole Foods or Trader Joe's or other stores of that nature...

Camille Lore
11-19-2008, 08:43 AM
I guess the kefir you can get at Whole Foods or Trader Joe's is different than what I bought at Wegmans. I'm not even sure what I got was real kefir.
Anyhow-I make my own now. Very easy. Put grains in milk, let sit for 24 hours, voila.
I thought it was interesting to read in Lights Out that our immune systems are in our gut.

Mike ODonnell
11-19-2008, 09:12 AM
Or just go into any college dorm room fridge....should be lots of cultured stuff going on in there.

Scott Kustes
11-19-2008, 10:12 AM
G, can you get it unpasteurized at Whole Foods?

Garrett Smith
11-19-2008, 11:09 AM
No, I haven't even seen any raw cheeses at WFs lately, much less milk products.

The important thing is that the kefir is cultured *after* pasteurization.

Could you imagine the legal issues with trying to sell raw cultured milk in a bigtime supermarket? Ouch.

sarena kopciel
11-19-2008, 01:42 PM
I bought these (http://www.5spokecreamery.com/) at my WF recently! And they are from raw grass fed Holsteins too!!