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Brian Lawyer
11-27-2008, 07:25 PM
Has anyone ever heard of this? Is it legit or some gimmick. Check out there website at http://www.zhealth.net/. The CrossFit affiliate I go to is always talking about the benefits of Z-Health.

Kevin Perry
11-27-2008, 07:40 PM
No it is the real deal. There are a number of people on this board who use it in their routines.

Derek Weaver
11-27-2008, 09:43 PM
Conditioning research had some good stuff about joint mobility recently. I think that Z-Health rocks, but that there's enough free stuff out there too that it's not, by any means, the end-all-be-all. http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/

Z-Health is legit though.

Garrett Smith
11-28-2008, 07:55 AM
I love it. I do some before nearly every workout.

Disclaimer--I am R-Phase and I-Phase certified. I do know the difference in benefits that I perceive I would have gained between just using the DVDs and the actual seminars is huge (as in, there are many nuances that one gets in a 5-day training like R-Phase that can never come through in a book + DVD).

Long-term, this will always be a part of my routine--as opposed to OL and KBs.

Brian Lawyer
11-28-2008, 09:30 AM
Conditioning research had some good stuff about joint mobility recently. I think that Z-Health rocks, but that there's enough free stuff out there too that it's not, by any means, the end-all-be-all. http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/

Z-Health is legit though.

I watched the video on that link. Looks like the same general warmup I do. I also do some walking lunges with twists. So what's the difference with Z-health?

Garrett Smith
11-28-2008, 09:53 AM
Any joint mobility program, even the worst one, is better than none.

Most joint mobility programs out there are pretty "sloppy", as in, one might be using other joints/movements unknowingly so that the body can avoid using joint movements that are inhibited/uncomfortable. As in, using lumbar motion to compensate for a lack of hip mobility, or using knee motion to compensate for a lack of ankle mobility.

Z-Health particularly focuses on isolating joint movements to assess each joint. This is where it is very different. It also focuses on the CNS involvement in everything one does, their joint mobility training is simply one of the fastest and biggest-bang-for-the-buck ways of quickly addressing the CNS.

It's definitely one of those things that people often underestimate until they've really experienced and learned it.

One last thing--the proof is in the pudding. If you've been doing a joint mobility routine and your coach(-es) feel that Z-Health has something more to contribute to your progress than what you've been getting out of your current program, it would behoove you to pay attention to that. That's what we have coaches for (myself included).

Chris H Laing
11-29-2008, 06:15 PM
Garret do you do I phase or R phase, and what is the difference between the two, and if one was going to buy either the i phase or r phase book and dvd which would be a better investment without going to any seminar?

sorry for all the questions

Brian Lawyer
11-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Garret do you do I phase or R phase, and what is the difference between the two, and if one was going to buy either the i phase or r phase book and dvd which would be a better investment without going to any seminar?

sorry for all the questions

Good Questions. I was thinking of the neural warmup DVD which is supposedly a condensed version of R phase. I have no desire to learn about all the science behind it. I just need some joint mobility routines I can work into my existing program.

Garrett Smith
12-01-2008, 08:39 AM
In terms of the seminars, one has to go to the R-Phase first, then the I-Phase.

If you just want a JM warm-up, then do the Neural Warmup DVD.

Brian Lawyer
12-01-2008, 11:25 AM
Is there another generally accepted joint mobility and/or warmup resource which is perhaps available via amazon.com and less expensive?

My favorite on this subject is a book called "Core Performance" by Mark Verstegan and he also has a website coreperformance.com. He uses the terms "Prehab" and "Movement prep" for his joint mobility and warmup exercises. I usually incorporate 10 minutes or so of Verstegan's movement prep and prehab exercises into my warmup routines.

Garrett Smith
12-01-2008, 11:50 AM
Brian,
It would have been helpful if at the start of this whole thread, you might have said something to the effect of:
"I've heard about Z-Health, but it's too expensive. Is there anything out there that is comparable AND cheaper?"

Cheaper - Yes. There's tons of crap out there. I'm personally always posting the foot drills link, which is a free PDF.

Comparable - No, not IMO. Knowing the intricacies of the system as I do, nothing out there is as precise and far-reaching as the Z-Health mobility exercises/system. Everything else is quite sloppy, as I said before. Your CF affiliate likely recommends it for a reason, like I do.

Chris H Laing
12-01-2008, 12:52 PM
So I got the neural warm up pdf file from my friends dad, whose had it for a while but hasn't used it.

Anywho, I was wondering if this kind of warmup would work well for everything athletic, such as a metcon, powerlifting, or oly lifting. Some people say that the CF warmup is the way to go for metcon. People, like Mark Rippetoe suggest reps with lower weight to warm up for powerlifting, and it is suggested on this site that DROM warmups are the best for oly lifting. I've also read that the best warm ups start with monostructural work, and move on to the more specific things.

So would the z health neural warm up take the place of all of these? Or would it be performed somewhere in the midst of one of these warmups?

For example, using an oly lifter:
rowing
z health
DROM
specific lift warmup

Sorry if this question is hard to understand. I'm just confused as to how to use the neural warm up most effectively, in relation to other types of warmups, or as a stand alone.

Brian Lawyer
12-01-2008, 01:35 PM
So would the z health neural warm up take the place of all of these? Or would it be performed somewhere in the midst of one of these warmups?

For example, using an oly lifter:
rowing
z health
DROM
specific lift warmup

Sorry if this question is hard to understand. I'm just confused as to how to use the neural warm up most effectively, in relation to other types of warmups, or as a stand alone.

Chris, I PM'd you by the way. If I knew what types of exercises Z-health entailed I may be able to help. But Z-health is still very much a mystery to me and this thread I started hasn't been much help.

Apparently, Z-health is some top secret joint mobility thing that you have to pay a grip to find out about. :) From what I understand, I think Z-health is very similar to DROM and you may be able to substitute for your DROM.

How is the rowing working for you as warmup? I tried rowing a few times for warmup but found that a very light row doesn't work very well because I get little or no resistance from the machine. I dropped rowing from my warmup routine and generally do some walking lunges, planks, PU's (just a couple), situps (just a couple), air-squats, etc. to get warm then I go into my own version of DROM, then onto a Burgener warmup or something.

Garrett Smith
12-01-2008, 03:05 PM
Brian,
I wish I could make it easier for you to comprehend, particularly the differences between Z-Health and most other systems. On the surface, most people would say they are all similar. It's in the finer points, like precision of movement, that they differ. I did Google "Z-Health review" and saw quite a few reviews of sessions/DVDs/seminars that you may find of more value than my input.

Chris, I can only answer your question by mentioning what I personally do. I do my joint mobility (Z-Health) stuff first, followed by any movement-specific warm-ups, then followed by any *necessary* stretching, like PVC dislocates, prior to my major exercises (typically the OLs or squats of some type).

I don't like a lot of warm-ups personally, I would never do them for a "lighter" metcon, even if it improved my time.

I think the only workouts I don't do my Z-Health stuff before is my hill walking on the weekends, and that's simply because I consider walking to be an activity that puts less "wear and tear" on the body if things aren't working as smoothly as they could (as opposed to OL). That, and the fact that even I get a bit lazy on the weekends--watching "The Soup" before walking does my body as much good as one Z-Health session, I'm sure... :-P

Brian Lawyer
12-01-2008, 03:27 PM
Brian,
I wish I could make it easier for you to comprehend, particularly the differences between Z-Health and most other systems. On the surface, most people would say they are all similar. It's in the finer points, like precision of movement, that they differ.

Chris, I can answer your question best by mentioning what I personally do. I do my joint mobility (Z-Health) stuff first, followed by any movement-specific warm-ups, then followed by any *necessary* stretching, like PVC dislocates, prior to my major exercises (typically the OLs or squats of some type).


I get it Dr. G. You have definitly sold me on Z-health. I am going to be adding some Z-health to my training repertoire soon. I have a buddy who wants to go halves with me on a DVD. We are currently debating whether to go R-Phase or neural warm-up. I personally want the simplified version of the neural warm-up because to me they already did all the work for me and cut the R-phase down to a condensed 10 minute routine I can do at the beginnning of every workout.

I was being sarcastic above. But apparently, I understand it better than you think because my advice above was the same as yours. It sounded like Z-health was something that could go on the front end of a warmup routine and, in Chris's example, possible take the place of the DROM.

Garrett Smith
12-01-2008, 03:31 PM
Brian,
Sorry if I overexplained. Ask my wife, I have a tendency towards that.

Maybe I can help you to save some $$ here. Get the R-Phase, PM me when you receive it, then I can tell you which moves from the R-Phase repertoire make up the Neural Warm-up. I can also point out the 4 "high-payoff" areas (the program minimum, as it were).

For lack of a better explanation, Z-Health moves done big, fast, and (typically) sloppy are DROM.

Chris H Laing
12-01-2008, 03:37 PM
I do my joint mobility (Z-Health) stuff first, followed by any movement-specific warm-ups, then followed by any *necessary* stretching, like PVC dislocates, prior to my major exercises (typically the OLs or squats of some type).



So its ok to do joint mobility work, like z health, even if your not warm?

Also, would legs swings and the like be considered as *necessary* stretches, because theres nothing in the neural warmup to loosen up the hammies or quads?


I personally want the simplified version of the neural warm-up because to me they already did all the work for me and cut the R-phase down to a condensed 10 minute routine I can do at the beginnning of every workout.


Looking at the manual, I am pretty sure it would take longer than 10 min, because they say 3-7 reps on everything, and theres 22 exercises...

Brian Lawyer
12-01-2008, 04:12 PM
So its ok to do joint mobility work, like z health, even if your not warm?

Also, would legs swings and the like be considered as *necessary* stretches, because theres nothing in the neural warmup to loosen up the hammies or quads?


Chris, I personally like this websites philosophy on warmup exercises in particular this one which is called knee hug lunge elbow to instep (aka the world's greatest stretch), http://www.coreperformance.com/video/Forward_Lunge_Elbow_to_Instep_Walking_-_Endurance.html, WFS. They refer to warmup as "Movement Prep". This is the kind of stuff you will see football players doing during pre-game warmups. No static stretching, just one to two second stretch and holds while performing lunges, squats, rotations, etc.

They also have backward lunges w/ twist, sumo squat lunges, and a lot of other good exercises you can use for warmup. I think these exercises are very much along the lines of the Warm-up Moves by Michael rutherford DVD which Greg Everett recommends in his resources.

BTW, the Movement Prep exercises are meant to be done in sets of 6 - 10 reps.

Garrett Smith
12-02-2008, 06:24 AM
I do my Z-Health stuff first, yes. Then again, I live in sunny Arizona.

If I were going to do anything prior to it, I'd likely do two minutes of jump rope.

I do three reps per drill, and I've cut the Z-Health portion down to about 6 drills most days (plus some other non-Z-Health stuff)

Brian Lawyer
12-02-2008, 08:07 AM
Brian,
Sorry if I overexplained. Ask my wife, I have a tendency towards that.

Maybe I can help you to save some $$ here. Get the R-Phase, PM me when you receive it, then I can tell you which moves from the R-Phase repertoire make up the Neural Warm-up. I can also point out the 4 "high-payoff" areas (the program minimum, as it were).

For lack of a better explanation, Z-Health moves done big, fast, and (typically) sloppy are DROM.

You didn't over explain. I am just giving you a hard time with all this super-secret Z-health stuff. I am definitly going to take you up on the above offer. That helped make our decision a lot easier. We'll opt for R-phase.

Michael Halbfish
12-13-2008, 12:10 AM
I have the Z Health Neural Warmup Level 1 and 2. What are the 4 high pay off areas?

Garrett Smith
12-13-2008, 10:33 AM
Medial/lateral tilts (#1 - foot), toe pulls (#2 - ankle), hip circles (this may not be the right name, #3 - hip joint), anterior/posterior thoracic glide (#4 - thoracic).

You could do the versions from either R-Phase or I-Phase. I often mix these up for variety and different stimulation.

Chris H Laing
12-13-2008, 05:54 PM
What makes those the high payoff areas? Aren't the shoulder circles important?

Garrett Smith
12-14-2008, 06:44 AM
I can't speak for Dr. Cobb's reasoning.

You might try reading the free PMenu "Kyphosis" article by Robb Wolf for a good idea of how thoracic mobility screws up the shoulder joint.

IMO, if people have what appears to be "shoulder joint" (glenohumeral joint) problems, they most likely have thoracic postural and mobility problems.

Chris H Laing
12-14-2008, 06:50 AM
Gotcha. I might start doing those four moves in my warmup...

Garrett Smith
12-15-2008, 05:28 AM
I add the PVC dislocates and kipping swings to my warmup, particularly on OL days.