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Hugh Gilmore
12-11-2008, 09:16 AM
Hi Folks,

First post here have to say you guys do a good job of taking up most of my free time with all your knowledge being poured out here.


So initially after reading starting strength I thought this would be an ideal program but I have gathered that the olifts are better for producing power and therefore maybe starting strength is the wrong choice so I though this program would work best

Mon
Olift back squat
Press
Clean style dead lift

Wed

Front squat
Clean &Jerk
Press

Thurs
Overhead squat
Snatch
Hang Muscle Snatch

5reps x 5sets all Exercises

My end result will hopefully be increased strength and power
My goal is to do a bodyweight snatch 87kg/193lbs currently 50kg and c&j 100 currently 70kg

Now hopefully someone can answer the question which is better for me follow this prog or similar olift prog until I reach my goals, or do a starting strength cycle for a while then come back and refocus on the olifts?

Thanks all inputs appreciated

Hugh Gilmore
12-11-2008, 09:19 AM
oh and forgot to mention I have Gregs book dvd and have had some coaching(two months) in the olifts. I konw ive given alot of info but better looking at it than for it ?

Júlíus G. Magnússon
12-11-2008, 09:29 AM
How much do you back squat?

People with a good strength base usually do better at the lifts than people who don't, and SS for a couple of months is probably the quickest way to get a good solid strength base. You could have Saturdays be a heavy single day for the clean and jerk and snatch.

If your strength base is decent, however, you'd be much better off just training the olympic lifts.

Hugh Gilmore
12-11-2008, 09:43 AM
bs highbar 80kg x 5reps
press 50kgx 5reps
deadlift 90kg x5 have done 120 1 rep max

does this help?

Thanks

Júlíus G. Magnússon
12-11-2008, 10:11 AM
Yeah. I would do SS if I were you.

Hugh Gilmore
12-11-2008, 10:22 AM
Thanks julius for the advice, any idea what sort of figures i should be lifting in ss before i go back to olifts.?

Or should i just practice olifts on weekend while doing ss.

Steven Low
12-11-2008, 10:29 AM
Warm up with some Oly lift technique work. Also do it in your free time like you would do skill work like handstands.

I'd SS up to at least 2-2.5x bw squat and DL and at least 1x press + 1.5-2x bench.

Arien Malec
12-11-2008, 10:52 AM
2 schools of thought:

School #1: The most important thing you can do to increase your olympic lifts is to get strong while working on technique. The fastest way to get strong is SS, as originally prescribed, with low bar back squats and traditional deadlifts. To that, you want to work in technique work and do full cleans and snatches where cleans are prescribed.

School #2: The most important thing you can do to increase your olympic lifts is to get strong and powerful using movements that translate well to olympic lifting while working on technique. Follow a progressive strength building program focused on technique work, the full lifts, front squats, high bar back squats, presses and push-presses, and dl and pulls using olympic lifting mechanics.

What's common? Both programs would have you follow a progressive weight training program, focused on adding weight every workout. What's different? School #1 would have you relentlessly focus on strength first while you learn good technique on the core lifts. School #2 would have you focus on adding weight to squats, and presses to every workout, adding weight to DLs and pulls as far as enabled good technique with olympic lifting mechanics, and to the core lifts as enables perfect lifting technique.

Look at Greg's beginner template for a good example of School #2, which would better suit your needs than the program you outlined (which has too much volume and not enough exposure to the core lifts). I think both approaches will get you there -- the most important thing is to focus on what's common (adding weight every single workout), not what's different.

Hugh Gilmore
12-11-2008, 10:52 AM
Thanks Steven, good to have figures like that.

So last question here I have gathered from other posts here that I should do

1: deadlifts with a olift clean type variation rather than a rip style DL

and

2: a high bar back squat would transfer better to Oly lifts.

Will my strength gains be slower if i use these variations of the lifts or should i stick with the SS /practical programming style of these lifts?

I think I have a tendancy to get hung up on the details!

Thanks to both of you . Im very gratefull for you replys

Júlíus G. Magnússon
12-11-2008, 10:59 AM
Woah, Steven. Those are some ambitious numbers. I haven't seen anyone get those kind of numbers on SS. I'd think that would require at least intermediate programming for quite some while.

Hugh Gilmore
12-11-2008, 11:19 AM
Thanks Arien for the input so now what i have is either two choices. Im kinda swaying towards gregs prog in the book just after reading it again and my goals for the snatch and clean and jerk are simply there because i know that when Ive acheived them i will be able to essentially perform better interms of Hurling (Native Irish field sport )

From my understanding ss will develop strength but that im actually looking to increase my explosiveness hence the Olift sway. I hope this makes sense.

and thanks again for the inputs guys.

Arien Malec
12-11-2008, 12:18 PM
1: deadlifts with a olift clean type variation rather than a rip style DL
2: a high bar back squat would transfer better to Oly lifts.

Will my strength gains be slower if i use these variations of the lifts or should i stick with the SS /practical programming style of these lifts?

Yes, your absolute strength gains will be slower, particularly as measured by something like CFT or PL totals, but likely with other functional measures of strength as well. Your sports-specific strength will be higher as applied to olympic lifting. So if that's your aim, go that route.

If your aims are to get as strong and powerful as possible and you have no specific desires to compete in olympic lifting, go with SS, but make sure you do the cleans (and probably snatches as well).

Hugh Gilmore
12-11-2008, 01:44 PM
My answer then is

in terms of increasing my overall power and strength and my ability to express it via sprinting jumping hitting with in a field sport, my best option is to do SS with a extra day foucused on working up to my max clean and jerk and snatch along with a olift warm up on ss days.

Thanks again for the input everyone much appreciated.

going to start this monday cant wait.