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Ben Fury
12-25-2008, 09:45 AM
Even a tiny bit of flab raises heart failure risk (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28355232/)

Compared with lean active men, the hazard ratios were
1.19 (95% CI, 0.94 to 1.51), lean inactive
1.49 (95% CI, 1.30 to 1.71), overweight active
1.78 (95% CI, 1.43 to 2.23), overweight inactive
2.68 (95% CI, 2.08 to 3.45), obese active
3.93 (95% CI, 2.60 to 5.96) , obese inactive.

We didn't need a crystal ball to guess this would be the discovery:

If you're fat, clean up your diet and lose the weight.
If you're a layabout, get off your lazy ass and go exercise.
And if that's a fat lazy ass... you REALLY better clean up your diet and go exercise.

This puts the death knell to the "I'm overweight but I'm healthy 'cause I'm active" nonsense. Bullfeathers!
:eek:
Time to stop kidding ourselves, folks. Overweight is NEVER healthy. Even the lean lazy as a slug types were healthier than the overweight actives.

Dave Van Skike
12-25-2008, 10:06 AM
they didn't study gen pop. they studied doctors.

they didn't study bodyfat..they used BMI only

it was all self reported from annual questionaires.

I think Reuters is imparting a bit of topspin..

Ben Fury
12-25-2008, 10:56 AM
they didn't study gen pop. they studied doctors.
Looks like they polled a fairly typical bunch of middle aged office workers to me. Might be a little Caucasian skewed. Might be a little upper income skewed. That might weaken the population-wide applicability a bit perhaps.

they didn't study bodyfat..they used BMI only

BMI works pretty well on non-athletes. I would prefer bodyfat if I could get it of course.

it was all self reported from annual questionaires.

Wouldn't have been an economically feasible study any other way. CHF is a major diagnosis, I don't think anybody is lying about developing it.

I think Reuters is imparting a bit of topspin..

I wouldn't know. I skipped the article and went straight for the Abstract of the paper:
Body Mass Index and Vigorous Physical Activity and the Risk of Heart Failure Among Men (http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/CIRCULATIONAHA.108.807289v1)

The data show a very obvious trend. The fatter you are, the more likely you are to get congestive heart failure (CHF). Exercise mitigates some of the risk but leanness trumps activity at each and every level.

Pretty clear take home message:
1. Get and stay lean.
2. For added protection, get fit too.
3. Don't kid ourselves if we're fat and active. Our risk factors are still WAY elevated. The chub MUST go or we're upping our risk of creating widows and orphans!!!

Ben Fury
12-25-2008, 11:02 AM
they didn't study gen pop. they studied doctors.
Looks like they polled a fairly typical bunch of middle aged office workers to me. Might be a little Caucasian skewed. Might be a little upper income skewed. That might weaken the population-wide applicability a bit perhaps.

they didn't study bodyfat..they used BMI only

BMI works pretty well on non-athletes. I would prefer bodyfat if I could get it of course.

it was all self reported from annual questionaires.

Wouldn't have been an economically feasible study any other way. CHF is a major diagnosis, I don't think anybody is lying about developing it.

I think Reuters is imparting a bit of topspin..

I wouldn't know. I skipped the article and went straight for the Abstract of the paper:
Body Mass Index and Vigorous Physical Activity and the Risk of Heart Failure Among Men (http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/CIRCULATIONAHA.108.807289v1)

The data show a very obvious trend. The fatter you are, the more likely you are to get congestive heart failure (CHF). Exercise mitigates some of the risk but leanness trumps activity at each and every level.

Pretty clear take home message:
1. Get and stay lean.
2. For added protection, get fit too.
3. Don't kid ourselves if we're fat and active. Our risk factors are still WAY elevated. The chub MUST go or we're upping our risk of creating widows and orphans!!!

Dave Van Skike
12-25-2008, 11:04 AM
we must have read different studies, the abstract i read was a little bit lighter on hyperbole.

Ben Fury
12-25-2008, 12:31 PM
we must have read different studies, the abstract i read was a little bit lighter on hyperbole.

LOL! Sorry about the hyperbole, Dave! Journalism training, "If it bleeds, it leads." mentality was driven into me well and early.

As one fine editor said, (minus the cursing) "Don't tell them what it means. Our readers don't care what it means! Our readers care what it means TO THEM!!! Now go write OUR READERS into your story. Wait, cancel that "your story." THAT'S the problem, it's YOUR STORY. It's no longer YOUR STORY. It's OUR READER'S STORY. Now go rewrite it that way!!!"

Nothing like getting pointedly screamed at a little to make you write snappier prose.

<<<>>>

Still, the risk factor rise in that study with increased BMI and reduced activity IS pretty compelling, eh? ;)

Dave Van Skike
12-25-2008, 12:37 PM
it makes me think more about the opposite population: big, athletic and muscular. there may be some practical reasons why human males can't seem to get lean and big (over 220) without "help" ... the body just ain't evolved for that and doesn't want to get there.

but then again, nobody said being awesome was healthy.

Ben Fury
12-25-2008, 02:00 PM
it makes me think more about the opposite population: big, athletic and muscular. there may be some practical reasons why human males can't seem to get lean and big (over 220) without "help" ... the body just ain't evolved for that and doesn't want to get there.

but then again, nobody said being awesome was healthy.

Yeah, I hear you on that one. As a natural ecto, I'm never going to be 220+ unless I'm FAT.

I've noticed that the injury patterns of the lower weight class guys vs the supers are rather different. I generally get pretty quick results with the smaller guys. The supers are a challenge. Big tight muscles that have been slammed with ultra high abuse levels are not easy to fix. Still, we help where and how we can.

No static work on supers, that's for sure. He can move that big old meat hook or horses hoof himself! Even with them helping, an hour working on a tight super is harder than two days of working on normals.

Arien Malec
12-25-2008, 08:47 PM
Still, the risk factor rise in that study with increased BMI and reduced activity IS pretty compelling, eh? ;)

The problem with this study is that high BMI in men is correlated with central adiposity. We don't know if this study is measuring the negative health effects of overweight, of central adiposity, or of some primary dysfunction that causes both.

I believe a number of recent studies have shown the abdominal to hip ratio being a better predictor of CV events than BMI. If true, fat can be healthy, at least if the fat is subcutaneous.

Ben Fury
12-25-2008, 09:34 PM
...fat can be healthy, at least if the fat is subcutaneous.

Interesting. Got a reference on that?

Arien Malec
12-26-2008, 08:24 AM
Interesting. Got a reference on that?

Uh, bad phrasing. I meant: fit and fat may not be an oxymoron, if the overweight is in the form of subcutaneous fat.

Will Moore
12-26-2008, 08:41 AM
You are so correct....those who are naturally ectomorphic like yourself (me too) can only get so big without being fat. When I went to boot camp (Marines) in 1981, I weighed 142 pounds. Over the course of 15 years and a lot of weight lifting, I worked my way to to 175 pound (5% bodyfat). Since that time, I have been stronger than that and a bit heavier than that on many occasions....but I have never been able to get larger than 175 at 5% bodyfat. I was born to be skinny and my skeleton and genetics will not allow me to gain more muscle beyond that. Its a reality one has to deal with.

Blair Lowe
12-26-2008, 09:02 AM
Wil, so all attempts at mass gaining failed or did you attempt without really knowing how. Way back once upon a time, I had an idea to get big but wasn't really putting in the food intake to support the lifting.