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Mark Madonna
01-08-2007, 10:45 AM
These questions come from people that say there is not enough carbohydrates in zone and paleo for a rugby player in season and the training that is required of them.

I have read Paleo for Athletes and besides a lot of weekend cheating, I am basically paleo. My question is about the best nutrition for rugby. The goal would be to perform optimally for an 80 minute rugby game. The break down would be 40 minutes of work at the most, on and off. I am a forward, but short recovery time and high intensity output is what I am looking for. My training is pretty dialed in with
Sunday Recovery, swim, hot and cold therapy,
Monday am 1/2 hour running, sprinting, body weight stuff, pm long heavy lifts
Tuesday am High Intensity weight work
Wednesdy am 1/2 hour running, sprinting, hills, pm warm up short heavy lifts
Thursday pm rugby training
Friday rest
Saturday rugby

My questions:
1. Is eating paleo optimal or should I switch to zone with lots of fat(Athletes Zone)?
2. What should be the timing be of adding the extra carbohydrates to my meals? 1-2 days before the match, if I am eating paleo?
3. Do any of you have any experience Rugby or non - Rugby related for 40-90 minute events that you trained for, and how you ate prior, along with the training for the event.

Thanks for any input
If anyone is interested I could keep a log of what I eat, just let me know, I don't right now.

Steve Shafley
01-08-2007, 12:28 PM
I did an entire season using a cyclical low carb diet.

No carbs from Sunday to Thursday:

Friday, taking advantage of my improved insulin sensitivity, I carb loaded using stuff like potatoes, sweet potatoes, brown rice, with little protein or fat.

Saturday, I would eat oatmeal and some meat for breakfast and then maybe fruit until the match started.

After the match, I'd eat any damn thing I want, including pizza, beer, and fried foods.

Sunday would start low carb gain.

Results, wrt weight loss were startling: I dropped from 240 to 205 or so in what was 5-6 weeks of my late conditioning and early competitive season.

My fitness was really high. I trained in a low carb state, and sometimes this would hurt badly and I felt completely whipped and like shit. But game day was awesome.

Just to see, I played the last game of the season without carb loading, and I felt good doing it. After that game, I had dropped under 200lbs for about 8 hours.

I did use MCTs before training, that seemed to help, but still keep the carbs away.

I had to make damn sure that I was adequately hydrated before the matches, and I also had to make sure I had a roll of toilet paper around, because I'd probably take 2-3 craps on Saturday morning before the game.

My training looked like this:

Sunday: off, recovery, might use whirlpool and sauna. stretching.
Monday: light weight work.
Tuesday: rugby practice followed by heavy weight work, sauna/whirlpool
Wednesday: recovery or conditioning
Thursday: rugby practice followedby heavy weight work, sauna/whirlpool
Friday: off, except maybe stretching
Saturady: Rugby Day.

My clothes would hang off me, and I was mightly pleased with my vascular and lean look. I got progressively weaker, and I figure this was more a function of undereating.

My workouts looked like this:

Session 1:

power clean
squat
bench
db row
abs

Session 2:

RDL + shrug
squat
push press
chin
abs

Mark Madonna
01-09-2007, 08:49 AM
Thanks for the response. That support is what I wanted for trying the cyclical low carb diet.

I am 250 right now 6'00" but I don't weight myself more than the times I go to the doctor, maybe 230lb would be a good goal and be an animal on saturday.

Thanks for the workout plan, I am doing two Burgener workouts, Monday and Wednesday, along with 2-20 minute intense continuous conditioning sessions a week.

Steve Shafley
01-09-2007, 09:03 AM
The dramatic weight loss did some good and bad things.

Good: I was faster, and had better agility and on-field quickness. Running and playing didn't beat my legs up so much. I was able to resume my flanker and 8 man roles.

Bad: Propping got harder. I was still stronger than most props, but was giving up 20-30 lbs of just sheer bodymass. Instead of smashing opposing players to the ground, I had to return to good tackling techniques. I no longer could drive the ball as hard as I could before into third phase rucking and passing situations.

I think my best playing weight was ~225. It ranged from 170 when I started to ~255 my last season.

I'd regularly lose 10-15 lbs during the season, though.

Mark Madonna
01-26-2007, 03:53 PM
I forgot food for the week.
Monday: Night backsquat, sprints, 500 air squats
Tuesday:Scrummage practice, 120 pullups
Wednesday:hill sprints, 5 long, 5 short
Thursday:practice, did not eat enough carbs,
Friday:Legs were still dead and sore.
Saturday:Legs felt a little better but not fresh. I was drained during the game. I did too much metcon that week in preparation. Need an ice bath at the field. 2 beers and felt like going to sleep so I drank a bottle of wine and called it good.
Sunday: hot cold shower

This week,
Monday: Morning, Sprints in the morning, Night, Snatch, Clean and Jerk, Front Squat 5 sets for all
Food: 2 lbs chicken, 4 avocados, 30 macs, oranges and organic fruit bars from TJ's, 10 fish oil capsules
Tuesday:
Chicken+broccoli, 2 lbs, 1/2lb tri tip,
Wednesday: Night, Deadlift 225lb, shoulder press 95lb 21-15-9, ball skills at practice
Food: Chicken+broccoli, 2 lbs, large bag salad, 10 FO capsules, 5 tri tip slices, 4 avocados, 3 sweet potatoes
Thursday: Night practice
Food: 3/4 Tri tip, 4 avocados, large bag salad, 10 FO capsules, 1 lb pork, French Fries(1 potato)
Friday: rest
Food: 1 lb shrimp, 2 head lettuce 1 head cabbage, 4 mahi mahi fillets from Costco, tonight Sushi, no beer before games. Dang!!

We will see tommorrow

Robb Wolf
01-27-2007, 06:43 PM
I did too much metcon that week in preparation. Need an ice bath at the field. 2 beers and felt like going to sleep so I drank a bottle of wine and called it good.
Sunday: hot cold shower



LOL! Mark that killed me for some reason. The beer was not quite the finisher, so bring on the wine!

Mark Madonna
01-29-2007, 12:36 PM
Saturday breakfast: Shrimp, sweet potato hash browns, 3 eggs, bannana, (10:00am)
Game 1:00pm felt great for first 30 minutes, then I broke my nose. And bled too much to go back in.

Mark Madonna
02-14-2007, 09:35 AM
Question for Robb or Greg:
I am going to post what I eat everday, should I start a new thread in training logs or keep it here.

Yesterday.
3 heads romaine
1 cup mushrooms
1 cup costco artichoke hearts
1/2 turkey breast
2 new york steaks bone in
1 avocado
1 cup broccoli
1 cup carrots
1 cup small tomatoes

2 cups frozen costco fruit (pineapples, mangos, papayas)
5 pieces sees candy after practice
2 beers

Today
1/4 bag 2lbs salad mix, iceberg lettuce, carrots, cabbage (I did not buy)
2 chicken breasts
1/2 lb turkey breast
1 cup carrots
1 cup small tomatoes
4 avocados

Sushi Combination
8 piece sushi with rice
alaska roll
miso soup
.25 lb salad

Robb Wolf
02-14-2007, 10:16 AM
Mark-
I was just thinking about starting nutrition logs...Greg, does it make sense to have a seperate section just for nutrition? Either way I'd like to encourage folks to track at least daily Protein, carb and fat intake if you are looking for more direct feedback. The food list is good for looking at food quality but for easy quantification listing either blocks or macro-nutrients is suuuuper helpful.

Greg Everett
02-14-2007, 11:36 AM
Greg, does it make sense to have a seperate section just for nutrition?

Sure.

http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=30

Elliot Royce
02-14-2007, 01:06 PM
www.fitday.com allows you to share your daily consumption with people while also automatically calculating your nutritional profile. It keeps it all online. You can just put the link in your profile or in a single log page.